I wonder how many fellow Backroomers can relate to this scenario.
Travelling home from work each day I reach a junction where I turn right from a major road into a minor road, the junction is traffic light controlled and there is a separate lane and filter for traffic wishing to turn right.
For some reason, a lot of drivers who wish to turn right will not drive into the middle of the junction and position themselves correctly for their right turn, these drivers just sit on the stop line waiting for the filter to come on, regardless of the fact that the main green light allows them to move forwards.
The trouble is that the filter only comes on if you drive into the middle of the junction and over the sensor that is buried in the road.
The result is that these drivers that refuse to move forward once the main green light comes on, cause the whole queue of right turning traffic to miss a sequence as the filter just doesn't come on.
As there is usually a steady stream of traffic passing in the opposite direction, it is very rare to be able to make a right turn without being positioned in the middle of the junction and without the assistance of the filter.
In a worse case scenario, I've missed three consecutive opportunities to turn as the lead vehicle isn't dealing with the junction properly.
Am I expecting too much common sense or does that not come into play on the roads these days?!
I can't find any reference to this particular scenario in the Highway Code - not that anyone would take note of it anyway!
Does anyone have a similarly annoying problem on their daily commute?
PP
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Someone is reading the junction wrongly.
Near me we have a similar junction. The right hand lane is clearly for right turn only, and there are two complete sets of lights controlling the traffic. So this is NOT a filter, you are supposed to stop behind the stop line until the lights change. Obviosuly, I quite regularly see the opposite of you - people cross the line while the right hand lights are on red, and cross when there is no oncoming traffic. Perfectly safe, if illegal...
It's all about comprehension & concentration...both of which some drivers lack...
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Funnily enough Smokie, the junction prior to the one in my post is exactly as you describe, and as you say, people seem to ignore the separate red for turning right.
Just goes to show the poor standard of some drivers I suppose. i wouldn't mind but it's not rocket science.
PP
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I'd say this is a bad junction design rather than anything to do with the drivers. How is the average driver to know there is a sensor buried in the middle of the junction itself? Why not bury the sensor behind the stop line in the right turn lane - makes more sense to me. I'd say that it's more common behaviour to keep the junction fairly clear and wait for a filter or gap than to pull right in to the junction, thus potentially blocking it for emergency services.
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The basic problem is that in the UK we teach people to pass the driving test, not how to drive. There is a BIG difference!
This, coupled with roads and junctions designed by people who either cannot drive or who have no real idea of how traffic flows/behaves is making life for the above-average motorist increasingly frustrating.
Wish I could afford to emigrate.....
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If there is no red light, you should proceed forward on the main green light, and turn when safe to do so. The filter arrow merely indicates when it definitely is safe to do so. It's just common sense really, but a lot of people don't seem to have any these days.
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There's a lovely set of traffic lights at Woolwich Common, at the junction of Grand Depot Road and Ha Ha Road (anyone know why it's called that?).
Coming from Woolwich town centre, turning right into Ha Ha Road, there is a 'refuge' in the middle of the road that accomodates roughly four cars (or a bus and one car). However, if I am first in the queue to turn right, nobody behind me has the sense to leave a gap so that traffic from the opposite direction can turn right also. Equally, trtaffic from the opposite direction does not leave a gap allowing me to turn right. Result? The junction is gridlocked until one of the muppets realises that he/she has to reverse in order to clear the middle of the junction.
Ho-hum.
Cheers
Rob
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There's a lovely set of traffic lights at Woolwich Common, at the junction of Grand Depot Road and Ha Ha Road (anyone know why it's called that?).
Rob,
A Ha-Ha is a hedge or fence cunningly hidden at the bottom of a ditch. In the past (18th Century?) it was a favourite way of preventing stray animals (cows and sheep) invading your Capability Brown landscaped gardens but not impeding the spectacular views of your estate with fences and hedges.
I would guess that there is (or was) a large stately pile somewhere near and this road runs along the original line of the Ha-Ha.
Ian L. (who doesnt live in a stately pile and only has a postage stamp garden).
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Near us in Runcorn half a mile of road previously reserved for buses was recently opened to all traffic. The junction had always been controlled by lights, so they added a right-filter to indicate the changed arrangement. Unfortunately it didn't mean any priority, as facing traffic also had a green! Several of us immediately sounded the alarm and got things changed before any trouble (AFAIK). The silly thing is that at the other end of the affected road is another light with a 'standard' right filter. No wonder drivers get confused.
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The trouble is that the filter only comes on if you drive into the middle of the junction and over the sensor that is buried in the road. The result is that these drivers that refuse to move forward once the main green light comes on, cause the whole queue of right turning traffic to miss a sequence as the filter just doesn't come on.
Yep, I pass through one of those everyday on the way home, and the same problem was apparent very quickly when sensors were installed beyond the white line. However, most people have cottoned on to it and it doesn't seem the issue it was a year or two ago.
What contributes to the problem is the increasing complexity of junction design and the proliferation of lights at junctions, especially of 'repeater lights' - every morning I drive down the A49 (2 lane road). At one point, the A577 (another 2 lane road) joins from the left in a very tight 'Y'. 20 yards beyond the join, on the right hand side of the 4 lanes, is a repeater light that relates to the two lanes coming in from the LEFT !. I've seen one elderly gentleman brake in panic when he didn't need to, thinking the red applied to him, scaring the wits out of himself and the tipper truck driver behind him, who was in 'lights have just turned to green' mode.
Equally, going in the opposite direction, you can take the A49,A577 or A571 - three choices, yet with the bus lane and the pedestrian crossing, I reckon of the top of my head there are 12/14 'traffic lights'. You at most have 100 yards to take these in and interpret them. I am suprised that more accidents don't happen there !
Bora - what Bora ?
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Sorry, while I go into PB mode - the hedge, fence (or wall) if fitted, would be at the top of the ditch, not the bottom
regards, Don drbe
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Sorry Ian, you are right and I am wrong! This PB shouldn't be so dogmatic.
drbe
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Nice picture of a bus and definition of Ha Ha on
transporthistory.tripod.com/green-woolwich.htm
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Nice pics Cardew, can't help but notice the complete absense of trash strewn all over the place on your pics, must have been taken in the good old days.
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