My wife has an Audi S3 which she needs for work every day. On Friday she noticed the indicators were only working intermittently, then latterly not at all. Saturday morning I phone the Audi service department (it's still under warranty), take it in and they announce it needs a new switch which of course isn't in stock. So Tuesday until they get it, Thursday until my wife can get there to get it fitted. You can predict my question is (hopefully not tempting fate)what is the legal position here if an accident occurs as a result of not indicating. I assume it would be my wife's 'fault' in driving without effective indicators, but given it physically couldn't be fixed until Tuesday does Audi have any duty here, even if only down to 'you musn't drive it until repaired' or even (we're talking fairy-tail land) 'you musn't drive it and please use our courtesy car until it's fixed.'
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Would using hand signals keep you within the law?
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I think the law looks at it like the car should not be used on the highway with that fault. Why, or how long, or anything else is not covered, and I bet that if an accident occured Audi could walk away cleanly.
Have you pestered them hard for a courtesy car? Remind them of how much the car cost, how much you'll be spending with them over the coming years servicing this car and other Audis as a satisfied customer.... These things are rarely black and white, it's down to negotiation!
Good luck
Gareth
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THREE suggestions/comments:
1) hand signals as suggested - but does the avearge driver understand them?
2) they take a functioning unit out of one of the cars which are hanging about the showroom [SMART THINKING, BATMAN!]
3) somebody with a brain and a soldering iron opens up the unit, and solders the connection again (see posts recent passim about 'fix, not replace'.)
90% of indicator problems, in my experience on many cars, are just a "dry" solder joint - the click-click of the mechanism tends to make them wear out pretty fast.
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Such a high proportion of motorists never use indicators that I'm surprised they have not been made an optional extra.
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Road Vehicles Lighting Regs 1989.
Schedule 7 Part 1 outlines requirement and fitment of Indicators.
Without going back as to those ancient vehicles that do not require, sufficient to say in this case REQUIRED.
Defined a DI is - a LAMP on a vehicle used to indicate to others drivers intention to change direction.
Reg 23: No person shall use a vehicle unless every DI is in good working order.Fine (Max) 1,000. Points/endorsement free.
No exemptions or defences i.e.defect occurred during current journey.Presumably that is why the 'Tell tale' lets you know one went duff.
Sorry Ian - hand signals not covered.
DVD
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PS
I have known it that bulb removal and if filament OK and then connection sprayed with WD 40, bulb replaced sometimes makes light work...
DVD
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Sorry to be obtuse DVD, but I would appreciate your help on this one (and anyone else who wants to chip in, naturally). My car is off the road at the moment as some nice soul backed into my car in a car park and taken out the front wing and the front indicator - they didn't leave any contact details of course. I am waiting to deliver this to the garage for repair, are we saying by law it would have be on a trailer?
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Bartycrouch
By the letter of the law, and High Court Judges are keen on this - see white line debate, then you would commit an offence in relation to duff indicators if your drove home to repair site. Further from what you say, it would appear that there may well be some jagged edges on display which is in itself another offence - using a mv the parts and accessories of which are in such condition as likely to cause danger to nay other person suing the road.
I would like to say that your explanation would be accepted by Plod and a nod and wink job but Plod is now being run as a business and he has performance targets to achieve (NYorks each Area has to produce ten arrests each and every day). Further that if stopped and instead of summons then Vehicle Defect Rectification Scheme ticket issued - get in repaired, produce evidence and thats it, but again we are down to the individual officer.
DVD
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Thanks DVD,
Much appreciated
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Since hand signalling was superseded by indicators, I suspect the pace of driving in the UK has increased to the point where hand signalling would be impossible; imagine trying to cope with everyday merging or roundabout manoeuvres. Especially with a mobile in one hand.
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Agree entirely with DVD. Try a hand signal on the M25,...
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Tend to agree about hand signals are almost defunct. About 6 yrs ago the indicator stalk broke mid journey (Pug electrics!) and the obvious solution was to continue the journey on rural and suburban roads for around 15 miles. Not sure if it had been M25 to be honest.
Quite frankly most other drivers didn't have a clue what was going on. Gobsmacked is the term that comes to mind.
That didn't include a beat car, but at least he let me on my way without a pull, albeit there was a fairly hard stare given. One up for the boys in blue methinks!
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"what is the legal position here if an accident occurs as a result of not indicating. I assume it would be my wife's 'fault' in driving without effective indicators"
Two different things here;
Firstly whether or not you would be prosecuted for driving without indicators and the likely punishment. DVD and his (ex) colleagues are better placed to answer.
Secondly, whether or not an accident would be deemed your wife's fault because here indicators were not working....
It depends so much on the circumstance of an accident and would normally range between having no effect and a worst case of a contributory factor.
About the only way I can think of an indicator not working causing an accident would be in an overtaking situation. Even then, it is normally incumbent on the other driver to do so taking into account the unexpected reactions of other users. e.g.If you hit someone up the back, its your fault whether or not their brake lights were working.
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Dealer should treat this as a "VOR" part (vehicle off road) and should get one sent overnight. Technically you should not drive the car until it has been fixed. If Audi will not consider this part as VOR then I would suggest never buying an Audi again.
NB I once ordered a non-VOR part for a Honda at 4:00pm and it was at the dealer by noon the next day. Now that's what I call service!
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All you folks who rubbish Citroen - order something by 4pm one day and as long as it is in the country it will arrive lunch time the next day. Including exhaust manifold studs for a 20 year old car.
Guess that's cos they never go wrong, so now much parts demand...!!!
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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>>Guess that's cos they never go wrong, so now much parts demand...!!!
Or they go wrong soooo much that everybody keeps loads of spares for them !
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Hmmmm.....pity we can't take drivers who don't indicate off the road to have a new part fitted (...something like a brain, perchance???)
Andy
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Thanks for all the feedback on this; yesterday my wife took the car in for the new switch to be fitted-'can it be done by 2.00 so I've got time to collect it and then get the kids from school'. 'No problem madam, we'll ring you as soon as it's ready'. So 2.30 ,no call, she phones up 'yes madam, it's all ready for you' 'Can you bring it onto the forecourt because I need to get away sharpish' 'Of course'. She walks up there, service receptionist who booked the car in is on the blower engaged in some important talk about what she's up to at the weekend. Of course none of the other three sales/service personages lurking in the showroom can help because they didn't book the car in. Finally gets the attention she needs, has a detailed description of which screws they undid etc to do the job. Finally, 'where's the car? 'Oh it's round the back, someone will fetch it for you'. Gets to school with seconds to spare. Durch vorsprung technik? I don't think so.
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Sadly, this is so representative of what passes for customer service these days. Never say no but don't bother to put yourself out to deliver the promises. I'm seriously thinking of emigrating.
Terry
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Go to the Philippines. Why? Because Grwler says it is fun, and (b) your UK pension is indexed linked. (not the case here!)
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Ian
Tempting, but that would really be a leap in the dark and I'm not sure I'm that brave. Think it might be within the EU - added bonus is that when I'm made redundant next year I can realise about £400k on the UK house and still buy something worthwhile in France or Spain: where service still counts for something even if attidues are a bit different (and vive la difference!).
Terry
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I'd plump for France, about halfway down, far enough south for decent weather but not so far south that the attitude is too laid back, which is fine on holiday but not so great when you need a plumber in a hurry.
If you are retiring you'll be in the pleasant position of being able to enjoy the excellent publically-funded road and rail networks without having to pay for it (except the tolls). Not to mention the excellent health service although you will need some medical insurance.
Also be aware of the implications of french inheritance laws, very different to here, as is the tax system.
It's worth going just for the wonderful food and wine, the french seem to take such things much more seriously than just about anyone else.
Let us know if you take the plunge, and can I come and stay? Everyone else will want to!
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