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n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Bolt

Not sure this will go down too well with Cyclists

Proposed shake-up of road laws could see cyclists face 20mph limits, carry number plates require insurance | Regit

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Xileno

Interesting proposal, not sure how feasible to implement. If bikes will now need insurance, will they also have to show a certificate of condition, a sort of MOT?

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Bolt

Interesting proposal, not sure how feasible to implement. If bikes will now need insurance, will they also have to show a certificate of condition, a sort of MOT?

Judging by Cycles i have seen. imo. they should do as some have no brakes and use feet to slow down stop must be expensive on trainers as well as dangerous

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Engineer Andy

Interesting proposal, not sure how feasible to implement. If bikes will now need insurance, will they also have to show a certificate of condition, a sort of MOT?

Cycle speedos/trip computers are probably not that accurate, and those that are better (perhaps GSP ones linked with satnavs or phone apps doing the same) are likely expensive to say the least.

I was out on my bicycle yesterday and passed a couple of those 'smiley face' speed check matrix signs and it's not that easy to judge 20mph, especially if the wind changes direction.

As regards the possible requirement for some kind of unique ID like w reg number/VED badge or suchlike, linked in with insurance, I'm sure it is technically possible.

A basic system used by the Camel Trail [and I suspect other well-used cycle trails] in Cornwall have every cycle hired out ID'ed, but rolling a system out nationally, and to include the equivalent of V5c forms etc when selling them is likely unworkable. How small do they start - little kiddies bikes with stabilisers?

I would say though that professional riders - I don't mean the actual Le Tour types, but cycle couriers who either work for a firm or are self-employed, should, in my view have such a system, including full, annual insurance and IDs displayed, because they are often a menace in cities, far more than the average lycra-clad weekend cyclist riding in the countryside.

I've had some near misses (90% in London) with such berks and seen them do some ridiculous things - going down streets the wrong way, riding at high speed on the pavement, going straight through pedestrian crossings with people (legally) crossing when their turn, plus several nasty crashes into people where its mostly their fault. I also think that the legal responsibility of cyclists (and pedestrians) should be changed to reflect actual culpability and recklessness in causing accidents. Similar with dog owners who aren't responsible or the new menace in some reckless e-scooter users.

The main problem has been and will always be enforcement, though things might improve if Plod doesn't though police the interweb or people's (legal but rude) speech any more or virtue signal at 'gatherings' and 'events' when they are on duty and could be more gainfully employed elsewhere.

I suspect that Mr Shapps has been egged on by the Mail and hasn't thought everything through. Still, better than his Opposition, now former opposition counterpart Mr Tarry who thinks those 'lowly-paid' train drivers need more money and supports 1diotic strikes that just make the whole situation worse.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Bromptonaut

The minister (Shapps) gave similar but different interviews to two papers. If I remember rightly the Daily Mail and the Times. He's that incompetent he couldn't even sell them both a consistent line about number plates.

His own department stated last November that registering bicycles was far too complex for any marginal good it might do.

Not as if he's not got enough on his plate with the rail industry. Mind you he's tripped himself up there too. For weeks he's been saying it's a dispute between the employers (Network Rail and the Train Operators) and their employers. In no way has he any part in it.

Then this week he's saying that the law will be used (fire and re-hire?) to enforce the so called modernisation he advocates.

So is he the controlling mind for the industry or not?

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - daveyjp

Its the sort of nonsense briefed by Ministers when they feel they are becoming irrelevant.

It also demonstrates they are probebly doing very little to deal with existing more pressing transport issues.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Brit_in_Germany

It was reported that there is only one country in the world where pedal bikes have registration plates.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - badbusdriver

It was reported that there is only one country in the world where pedal bikes have registration plates.

But in that country, hardly anyone has any other form of transport.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - focussed

No point in having compulsory insurance without identification - ie number plates.

But where do you start with registration? Size of bike? Age of rider?

As with mopeds, a CBT course pass would be a good idea, most cyclists do not have the foggiest notion of road procedure unless they are also car drivers, but a lot of them don't have much idea either, that might do some good!

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Terry W

There are some sensible points in this - eg: cyclists should obey the rules of the road and be accountable for accidents they cause.

Mostly it seems a nonsense - the police rarely prosecute motorists without MoT, insurance, driving licence, etc. I have little confidence they will do anything for cyclists who are non-compliant.

Often regulation is unnecessary for those who would anyway be compliant, and pointless for those who will anyway ignore it.

Regulating cyclists runs counter to zero carbon aspirations - younger folk will never bother with cycling, registration and costs will simply drive cyclists off the road.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - nellyjak

Can't see this getting off the ground tbh....far to complex (and costly) and difficult to implement and police.

I'd prefer the effort and money being spent on more dedicated cycle paths/lanes and keeping vehicles and bikes away from each other as much as possible. (not always easy to do I know)

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Manatee

This is utter nonsense, clearly no work has been done and when it is it will be dropped - maybe some rules will come in on penalties or whatever, maybe even applicability of speed limits (it will achieve nothing except the appearance of action).

Even making cycle helmets compulsory has been shown to reduce cycle use dramatically.

Any benefit would be somewhere between non-existent and almost nil.

The idea that cyclists are a material danger on the roads is just hysteria and bigotry. As for the odd one who is a menace, they will no more be deterred by legal measures than the legions of criminally dangerous drivers on every "Police Interceptors" episode.

Shapps is a plausible berk, always has been.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - corax

Imagine the aerodynamic disadvantages you would incur fitting a dropped handlebar racer with license plates!

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Engineer Andy

Imagine the aerodynamic disadvantages you would incur fitting a dropped handlebar racer with license plates!

You could always wear them, rather like the track and field athletes do... :-)

or have a plate slung under the top tube, as some sporting events require (triathlon?).

I'd be more concerned about getting 'wing' mirrors, ABS and airbags...

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - badbusdriver

Imagine the aerodynamic disadvantages you would incur fitting a dropped handlebar racer with license plates!

You could always wear them, rather like the track and field athletes do... :-)

or have a plate slung under the top tube, as some sporting events require (triathlon?).

I'd be more concerned about getting 'wing' mirrors, ABS and airbags...

I don't recall the make, but I remember looking at a Dutch style bike a few years ago which came with a unique ID number cut out of a plate which was a part of the frame.

As for any aerodynamic disadvantages on a drop bar bike, motorbikes don't need a front plate, so no reason a bike would. Not that I think there is any possibility of this unworkable scheme (without vast sums of extra money to enforce) getting off the ground.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Crickleymal

Personally I think there should be at least one form of transport that isn't subject to control by government. On the other hand perhaps delivery bikes ought to be licensed/insured. I have grave doubts about the advisability of letting people who haven't passed a motorbike test out to n 125cc scooters to deliver pizzas.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - alan1302

Personally I think there should be at least one form of transport that isn't subject to control by government. On the other hand perhaps delivery bikes ought to be licensed/insured. I have grave doubts about the advisability of letting people who haven't passed a motorbike test out to n 125cc scooters to deliver pizzas.

Yes, I've noticed a lot of learners doing commercial work - does not seem right,

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - _

Personally I think there should be at least one form of transport that isn't subject to control by government. On the other hand perhaps delivery bikes ought to be licensed/insured. I have grave doubts about the advisability of letting people who haven't passed a motorbike test out to n 125cc scooters to deliver pizzas.

Yes, there was a motor scooter on its side , a food delivery on the road and a scooter rider and taxi driver going at it hammer and tongs...just down the road from us a few weeks back

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - De Sisti

Ten year-old Jemima gets a pink Barbie bike for Christmas, and she happily rides it up and down the cul-de-sac and adjacent roads. I wonder how the insurance premium is going to be set for her and bike?

She would also (I presume) have to get a calibrated speedo connected to her bike (as bikes don't have them at the point of sale).

* I'm not so sure an insurance company would take premiums from her. I suppose the bike could be insured by her parents, with little Jemima begin added as an additional rider on the policy? :-)

I don't understand why drivers moan about cyclists not wearing helmets, or being adorned in lycra. It's none of their business, really.

Motorists berating cyclists for them thinking they're taking part in the Tour de France, is not dissimilar to people on bikes having a go a drivers for driving around as if they're at Silverstone or some other race track.

Let us all share the roads amicably, whatever mode of transport we use.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Engineer Andy

Ten year-old Jemima gets a pink Barbie bike for Christmas, and she happily rides it up and down the cul-de-sac and adjacent roads. I wonder how the insurance premium is going to be set for her and bike?

She would also (I presume) have to get a calibrated speedo connected to her bike (as bikes don't have them at the point of sale).

* I'm not so sure an insurance company would take premiums from her. I suppose the bike could be insured by her parents, with little Jemima begin added as an additional rider on the policy? :-)

I don't understand why drivers moan about cyclists not wearing helmets, or being adorned in lycra. It's none of their business, really.

Motorists berating cyclists for them thinking they're taking part in the Tour de France, is not dissimilar to people on bikes having a go a drivers for driving around as if they're at Silverstone or some other race track.

Let us all share the roads amicably, whatever mode of transport we use.

Part of the original issue was, and frankly still is a small but reckless minority of cyclists who treat the road as their personal racetrack, avoid all road laws, etc and often endanger other road users, pedestrians and animals/pets.

That they routinely get away with breaking the law is bad enough, but that the penalties for cyclists committing the same/similar (in law) offences as motorists are severely restricted is, in my view wrong.

The VED / insurance / licence plate / speedo suggestion is likely unworkable for bicycles, although some kind of ID wouldn't go amiss.

I agree that if everyone behaved responsibly and treated eachother with consideration on the road, then the experience would be far better. Doing one good turn normally leads to them being reciprocated just as much as the opposite.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Manatee

As an almost daily cyclist and driver, I just wish the antagonism could be put aside.

Each blames the other for that of course but what is usually overlooked is what an unequal argument it necessarily is.

The car will always win in a conflict. There is no equivalence between an aggressive or selfish cyclist, and an aggressive or selfish driver. who is equipped with a lethal weapon. Hence the attempt in the new HC rules to set a basis for that relationship between rights and responsibilities towards more vulnerable road users from pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders, motorcyclists through to cars and large vehicles.

Cycling has had a lot of attention, including much moaning from some drivers about the road positioning advice, but sadly the injunction to give pedestrians on roads with no footpath 2 metres of clearance doesn't seem to have penetrated quite so well.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Engineer Andy

As an almost daily cyclist and driver, I just wish the antagonism could be put aside.

Each blames the other for that of course but what is usually overlooked is what an unequal argument it necessarily is.

The car will always win in a conflict. There is no equivalence between an aggressive or selfish cyclist, and an aggressive or selfish driver. who is equipped with a lethal weapon. Hence the attempt in the new HC rules to set a basis for that relationship between rights and responsibilities towards more vulnerable road users from pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders, motorcyclists through to cars and large vehicles.

Cycling has had a lot of attention, including much moaning from some drivers about the road positioning advice, but sadly the injunction to give pedestrians on roads with no footpath 2 metres of clearance doesn't seem to have penetrated quite so well.

Indeed - the whole issue needs a big dose of reasonableness (is that such a word?) on all sides. The ironic thing is that I always thought that the Highway Code always appeared to promote this idea and due consideration for other road users in the context of how they were using the road and what (often limited) options they had to modify behaviour when confronted with situations involving other types of road user.

When I started cycling (for fitness / pleasure [seeing the countryisde]) over the past 2 years, and especially over the past few months, I've tried my best to uphold those 'standards' in the hope that other road users would reciprocate.

I've been gratified that doing so has resulted in them often thanking me for doing so, so I hope they will reciprocate when a cyclist needs some consideration when maneuvering, especially where the situation is potentially danergous for the cyclist.

Like most situations, it just takes a few 'bad apples' to convince the majority to say 'why should I bother to do the right thing' and decend to their level. That being said, I still think more needs to be done to combat reckless and selfish cyclists (and pedestrians), who give everyone a bad name and them getting away with their actions gives young people especially encouragement to follow.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Andrew-T

<< ... the whole issue needs a big dose of reasonableness (is that such a word?) on all sides. The ironic thing is that I always thought that the Highway Code always appeared to promote this idea and due consideration for other road users .. >>

I think our Highway Code has evolved steadily from the early 19th century situation where traffic on public roads consisted of some riders and occasional stage coaches, but primarily pedestrians who (in theory) had primary rights of passage. Since the arrival of hobbyhorses and more refined sorts of bike, vehicles have got faster and much more numerous, and the Code has been trying to keep up with the associated problems.

In theory pedestrians still have primary rights, while other road users have privileges or licences of access, but stating that fact doesn't make it happen. And soon we may have to allow for machines able to make up their own 'minds' ...

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - De Sisti

. Part of the original issue was, and frankly still is a small but reckless minority of Motorists who treat the road as their personal racetrack, avoid all road laws, etc and often endanger other road users, pedestrians and animals/pets.

That they routinely get away with breaking the law is bad enough,

I agree that if everyone behaved responsibly and treated each other with consideration on the road, then the experience would be far better. Doing one good turn normally leads to them being reciprocated just as much as the opposite.

Motorists treating the roads as their own personal racetrack has devastating consequences for all other road users on a daily basis. Please remember this and don't forget it.

By law, they have to pay VED, have (at least 3rd party) insurance and pass an accredited test to show their competence to control a motor vehicle. If posters on here want something similar for cyclists then they should lobby the Secretary of State for Transport. Good luck with that one.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Smileyman

Hopefully these rules will include use of lights when using public highways in poor light. Far too many times they whizz past, no lights, I don't want my conscience to be burdened with memories of a RTA with injuries for anyone.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - badbusdriver

Hopefully these rules will include use of lights when using public highways in poor light. Far too many times they whizz past, no lights, I don't want my conscience to be burdened with memories of a RTA with injuries for anyone.

It is already the law that a cyclist must use lights between sunset and sunrise.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Smileyman

Hopefully these rules will include use of lights when using public highways in poor light. Far too many times they whizz past, no lights, I don't want my conscience to be burdened with memories of a RTA with injuries for anyone.

It is already the law that a cyclist must use lights between sunset and sunrise.

Would be nice for eforcement!

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Smileyman

Hopefully these rules will include use of lights when using public highways in poor light. Far too many times they whizz past, no lights, I don't want my conscience to be burdened with memories of a RTA with injuries for anyone.

It is already the law that a cyclist must use lights between sunset and sunrise.

Would be nice for eforcement!

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - galileo

Hopefully these rules will include use of lights when using public highways in poor light. Far too many times they whizz past, no lights, I don't want my conscience to be burdened with memories of a RTA with injuries for anyone.

It is already the law that a cyclist must use lights between sunset and sunrise.

Would be nice for enforcement!

And enforcement for red-light crossing, pavement riding and the illegal use of electric scooters.

No chance of that, more effort is put into wokery and 'non-crime hate events' by many police forces.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Engineer Andy

Hopefully these rules will include use of lights when using public highways in poor light. Far too many times they whizz past, no lights, I don't want my conscience to be burdened with memories of a RTA with injuries for anyone.

It is already the law that a cyclist must use lights between sunset and sunrise.

Would be nice for enforcement!

And enforcement for red-light crossing, pavement riding and the illegal use of electric scooters.

No chance of that, more effort is put into wokery and 'non-crime hate events' by many police forces.

Indeed - you've likley got more chance in having the Old Bill come round your house (and in numbers) for 'mean tweets' or suchlike to 'thought police' you than for actual law-breaking such as the (often) dangerous road behaviour (including that of car, van and HGV drivers) you describe, that is when they aren't bending the knee / dancing at demos, having cups of tea with 'climate' protestors stopping the M25 or standing around all day doing nothing in front of a warpped police car that says 'we care' about X or Y.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - De Sisti

Would be nice for enforcement!

And enforcement for red-light crossing by motor vehicles (this happens more by motor vehicles, but seems to be accepted by members on this forum), pavement parking by motor vehicles.

Edited by De Sisti on 29/08/2022 at 17:56

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Bolt

Would be nice for enforcement!

And enforcement for red-light crossing by motor vehicles (this happens more by motor vehicles, but seems to be accepted by members on this forum), pavement parking by motor vehicles.

Not all red light crossing is on purpose, some lights change so fast if you dont carry on you block the junction as I have got caught out several times.and the fact they change at intermittent times makes it difficult to guess when they are likely to change, so its not always done deliberatly

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - galileo

Would be nice for enforcement!

And enforcement for red-light crossing by motor vehicles (this happens more by motor vehicles, but seems to be accepted by members on this forum), pavement parking by motor vehicles.

Not all red light crossing is on purpose, some lights change so fast if you dont carry on you block the junction as I have got caught out several times.and the fact they change at intermittent times makes it difficult to guess when they are likely to change, so its not always done deliberatly

I thought that the timing of the sequence green to amber to red was related to the speed limit of the road, i.e. longer amber on NSL than on a 30 limit road.

If this is not the case then logically it should be, shouldn't it?

[Railway signalling practice reflects allowed speed for the location and stopping distances]

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Bolt

I thought that the timing of the sequence green to amber to red was related to the speed limit of the road, i.e. longer amber on NSL than on a 30 limit road.

If this is not the case then logically it should be, shouldn't it?

I agree it should be but it looks to me from attempting to check timing that it depends on time of day and the amount of cars/traffic queueing at the lights on this sideroad, now I`m given to understand that a main road is given priority over a connecting sideroad.

but found these lights not only change irregularly quickly from green to amber to red but take longer getting from red to green, wait a second at green allowing at the most and depending how quickly drivers move away from lights, 2 cars at a time -mostly one to move at these lights, reason why so many jump the lights blocking main road traffic....

if they are checked out of rush hour they operate for longer allowing 4 or 5 cars at a time, but the annoying part is they operate at this timing in rush hour only also right next to a supermarket where traffic is heaviest so to me it doesn`t make sense the timing of these lights, but then there are others several miles away that do the same, to me, its like controllers are switching the lights to make traffic jams on purpose which is highly likely, I gather they are controlled when necessary by the Met Police in London but not really certain on that....

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Andrew-T

There is one set of lights at a main intersection in the middle of nowhere on my regular trip into Wales, where the lights appear to allow for the length of queue. Most lights have sensors buried in the road surface, so it's not difficult to arrange IMHO.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Engineer Andy

There is one set of lights at a main intersection in the middle of nowhere on my regular trip into Wales, where the lights appear to allow for the length of queue. Most lights have sensors buried in the road surface, so it's not difficult to arrange IMHO.

Indeed - a set of traffic lights near the station in my home town were changed last year, and lo and behold, they now work very well. Likely because the road/presence sensors and (newer) software actually work!

The main road has the lights set to green unless there's something coming along the side road or a pedestrian presses the button to cross. The sensors seems to even detect me one my bicycle on ths ide road and I don't have to wait until a vehcile passes over the road sensors as before!

Now if only temprary traffic lights could employ such system, to avoid gridlock on main roads...

Edited by Engineer Andy on 31/08/2022 at 19:23

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - alan1302

Now if only temprary traffic lights could employ such system, to avoid gridlock on main roads...

Some do have sensors installed.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Engineer Andy

Now if only temprary traffic lights could employ such system, to avoid gridlock on main roads...

Some do have sensors installed.

The better contractors probably use/hire them. Recently we had a lot of water main repairs in the town and the wallies in charge of the works just used timer-based systems that took no account of the time of day and rush hour traffic levels and they stayed on the same settings throughout. Gridlock ensued on many occasions because they were being used near ordinary traffic lights.

On one recent cycle ride, a temporary set in a hamlet had such a short turn for the length of the run that I had to pull over to avoid traffic coming the other way.

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Bromptonaut

We have 'temporary' lights locally that have been there for about five years and long enough to appear in Streetview:

goo.gl/maps/CNFcEzNiFHaQRx2FA

The bridge is over the West Coast Main Line and the lights enforce alternate working due to serious subsidence and break up of the road surface cracks big enough to swallow a bike wheel. It appears that the Council and National Rail cannot agree responsibility. Furthermore, it is likely that work would require possession of the railway or at least isolation of the overhead line.

The default position is for the lights to be at red both ways with green activated by the arrival of a vehicle detected by infra-red or maybe 'radar'. If there are vehicles both ways it goes to timed.

Every now and then the lights fail, red both ways, and cars have to proceed with caution creeping/peeping and maybe sounding horns.

The other issue is that the route is used by buses to and from the local rural comprehensive and LGVs serving a large flour mill. Both can be difficult to pass or get in a tangle with each other.

Another set, this time permanent, cover a bridge over the Grand Union Canal on a blind corner. They also use vehicle detection, this time cables buried right up by the stop line. Every now and then a vehicle stops short of the stop line and is not detected leading to light staying red and a jam. Usually only solved when a local in the queue who has seen it before taps on the lead cars window and asks the driver to move up to the line...

n/a - Proposed shake up for Cyclists - Bilboman

This clip appeared in the news recently in Spain, showing an impatient cyclist repeatedly trying to overtake a car and finally managing to do it on a right hand bend (read: left hand bend for UK) with an extremely limited view. And surprise surprise he came a cropper. €500 fine, cuts and bruises and let's hope lesson learnt. The Mossos d'esquadra (Catalan police) posted the clip as a salutary lesson - we hope!
twitter.com/mossos/status/1566802814143168513
On the rare occasions when I've encountered a cyclist going hell for leather to overtake me in my car, I've always wondered what exactly they're trying to prove. I never hold them up - once they're showing signs of going for it, I ease off the throttle and even go as close to the nearside as I can as I would with a car tearing past) and soon enough I'm naturally overtaking them on an uphill stretch (obviously legally and safely, 1.5 metre separation etc.) and the cat and mouse game continues. Bizarre.