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Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Montesquieu

Hi, I retired recenly age 61 and have a bit of a dilemma about a 'retirement' car.

I've always driven large saloons, even back to my student days. It always seemed like you could go a few years older than 'normal' and get a lot more car - choose carefully/low mileage and you can get a genuine slice of luxury for the price of a new hatch. I always took car allowance rather than a company car.

Hence a succession of big Citroens, Alfas, Saabs, Lexuses (Lexi?) and latterly Jaguars. I've had my current XF 'S' Premium Luxury 3.0 auto for seven years - it was six years old when I got it and has still only done 118k miles.

I actually love it, it's comfortable, looks great and has been ultra-reliable (apart from a dropped rear window, this past 50k+ miles it's only had consumable/service items required though I did have the cam belt done at 100k). I had to make a quick dash from down south up to Scotland recently after my dad took ill and it was staggeringly good on the motorways, fast and comfortable. It doesn't do a huge mileage locally but I always go driving holidays so it's done Wales, the West Country, France, Germany, Spain, and many such trips up north.

The down side though is that like most pre 2015 diesels it's non ULEZ compatible and with all sorts of towns and cities going that way, I will need to replace it at some point.

In normal circumstance I'd trade it for something in the £10-15k bracket, maybe 5-6 years old, low miles - and in fact I am considering another XF, possibly a Sportbrake, or an XE. Sadly Saab are no more and I find the current Lexus range pretty ugly. But maybe I should cast the net wider.

Needless to say I'm not an out and out performance freak (though motorway performance batters) and equally I'm not an SUV fan - big saloons and estates for me, and I love lots of kit (though not fussed about modern nannying driving 'aids' - I had a rental VW 'Up' recently that was a total pain on country roads in France nagging constantly about crossing white lines).

I wouldn't have an EV simply because the technology isn't there yet for long distance driving and the only real (market distoring) incentive is for company car drivers, though a plug-in hybrid appeals. (I have a house with a big driveway so hassle about charging). Not a great fan of the Germans having seen mates go through all sorts of nightmares with VWs and Mercs, while I'm not and never have been a BMW type (qv all those Citroens and Saabs over the years). Bit suspicious of Volvo since the Chinese takeover but I'm probably looking anyway at something that predates that. Open to Japanese or Korean though.

I have a Mazda MX5, kept garaged, for sunny days though it only gets about 1000 miles a year, and I have thought of replacing both with a single car. But there are precious few open large cars and I'd probably want a tin top rather than a ragtop.

So there we go - any suggestions for a moderately future-proof, ULEZ, non-EV luxo-barge (non-SUV), up to 5-6 years old, £10-15k low miles? Or do I just keep the Jag for another year or two and wait till the dust settles? Whatever I get I'm likely to want to keep for 9-10 years if I can. I will be able to liberate some tax-free pension cash so no need for a leasing plan or anything like that.

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Sparrow

A friend in a similar situation to you, about to retire, bought a Hyundai Tucson about a year ago. He has the plug in hybrid version, which he manages to run entirely on electric for local driving. On long distances, he reports it being very comfortable, but it is difficult to match the MPG of his land rover sport, which I think had the 3 litre diesel that your Jag has.

The plug in hybrid version has more go than the normal hybrid, and a lot more than the pure petrol. He test drove all 3 versions. Might be worth a look.

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Xileno

I had a ride in the 2.2 when it first came out, I was hugely impressed by the refinement and comfort. I can only imagine the 3.0 is even better.

I would keep what you've got for now. You've clearly maintained it well, the cambelt has been done that would have been quite costly. Regarding ULEZ, unless you intend driving into those zones a lot then I would just pay the fee. You can have a lost of ULEZ fees for the cost of changing. JLR products seem to vary quite a bit in reliability, if you've got a good one then keep it well maintained and hang on to it.

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - badbusdriver

A friend in a similar situation to you, about to retire, bought a Hyundai Tucson about a year ago. He has the plug in hybrid version, which he manages to run entirely on electric for local driving. On long distances, he reports it being very comfortable, but it is difficult to match the MPG of his land rover sport, which I think had the 3 litre diesel that your Jag has.

The plug in hybrid version has more go than the normal hybrid, and a lot more than the pure petrol. He test drove all 3 versions. Might be worth a look.

Cheapest Tucson PHEV on Autotrader is just under £34k!

In fact as the OP doesn't want German, (on a £15k budget) better drop the whole plug in hybrid idea full stop, at least for the moment. With that budget, looking for a PHEV with at least 150bhp, your choice of makes on Autotrader are Audi, BMW, Mercedes, VW, and Mitsubishi. So the sole non-German £15k option is the Outlander PHEV.

TBH, unless you think its ULEZ status will cause problems you can't get round, I'd suggest just sticking with the Jag, seeing as it is proving reliable and you love it.

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Ethan Edwards

I appreciate the OP doesn't want to consider an EV. I think he's wrong and here's why.

You'll be on a fixed income.

Vehicle tax is Nil, ulez/lez exempt. Servicing is dirt cheap. Mokka-e main dealer 90 Inc vat.

I'm on a fixed tarriff where I get a night rate of 4.5p per kw . Which means my motoring is 1.2p per mile. That's 2.10p to do 175 miles. No luxobarge is going to do that.

Charging, most of mine and I'm a typical user is done at home overnight. Public charger numbers are growing even some Tesla chargers are opening up to us lesser non Tesla beings.

Evs have got it made for reliability especially over used complex prestige cars.

Those are the reasons why I think the OP should think again. Incidentally I'm in exactly the same situation regarding retirement planning and as you can guess have made different choices.

Edited by Ethan Edwards on 30/07/2022 at 19:04

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - JonestHon

My choice will be a 2013 -2016 Lexus GS450h.

It is one of the last big cruisers in your budget.

As you don't like the look of the newer Lexus line, maybe a 2017 + Mondeo Vignale with the 2.0 diesel, it is ULEZ kosher and has all the toys you except from the top trim. The estate is huge inside.

Edited by JonestHon on 30/07/2022 at 20:25

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Adampr

Yes, I was thinking Mondeo Vignale, Mazda 6 or Kia Optima but all will be a step down in perceived quality from a Jag, so may as well stick with the XF until it dies.

I think retirement planning depends somewhat on the size of pension pot, lump sum and annuity. When my dad retired 20 years ago he had enough of a lump sum to buy a Ferrari 360 and sell it back to the dealer for the same amount four months later. He has since adopted a policy of having one day-to-day fairly ordinary car and one 'special' car used for longer trips.

Interestingly, he has just swapped his Hyundai i10 for a Kia e-Niro. That's partly about having a new toy but also, as suggested above, having practically zero running costs.

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Falkirk Bairn

>>That's partly about having a new toy but also, as suggested above, having practically zero running costs.

The biggest cost of running a car is depreciation!

A well looked after 7 year old petrol car is still worth £££s

A well looked after 7 year old EV on the point of needing a new battery????

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Adampr

>>That's partly about having a new toy but also, as suggested above, having practically zero running costs.

The biggest cost of running a car is depreciation!

A well looked after 7 year old petrol car is still worth £££s

A well looked after 7 year old EV on the point of needing a new battery????

I suppose everyone that's watched petrol prices and used car values shoot up over the last couple of years would disagree but, in usual circumstances, I get that. There is still something very satisfying in not paying VED and not visiting petrol stations and, of course, depreciation only matters if you're trying to sell.

I do think we need to get away from perpetuating the idea that EV batteries totally cease to work after about 7 years. Current evidence suggests that they are good for 100,000-200,000 miles (time is not the factor) before their charging capacity decreases significantly. The average lifespan of an ICE car is around 130,000 miles (I don't know who's scrapping them at ridiculously low mileage either), so the lifespan of your typical EV and typical ICE are pretty much the same.

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - John F

I've always driven large saloons....... It always seemed like you could go a few years older than 'normal' and get a lot more car - choose carefully/low mileage and you can get a genuine slice of luxury for the price of a new hatch.

Same here.

. Not a great fan of the Germans having seen mates go through all sorts of nightmares with....... Mercs,

So have I (and I'm also prejudiced against them as they persist in deluding us that Karl Benz invented the car - it was actually Siegfried Marcus until the Nazis wrote him out of the history books). But it depends which German. I've had three big used Audis since 1993 and they've been fine - but they didn't do many miles.

while I'm not and never have been a BMW type

Nor me.

So there we go - any suggestions for a moderately future-proof, ULEZ, non-EV luxo-barge (non-SUV), up to 5-6 years old, £10-15k low miles?

Eight years ago I was in a similar position - mid 60s, coming up to retirement, looking for a big fast comfortable 'forever car' . I sold my sixteen year old A6 as I at last found the car I wanted - a rare W12 sport quattro. If they didn't exist I would still have eventually bought an A8 because they are very well made using a sophisticated aluminium space frame rather than just gluing bits of aluminium together. It is also now 16yrs old but has still only done 73,000 miles and will probably outlast me, especially as it's now doing only a couple of thousand miles a year in my dotage.

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - DavidGlos
Kia Optima PHEV?
Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Montesquieu

Thanks all. I must say the A8 W12 looks pretty cool and might well be a sensible choice. I've had only one Audi in the past (an LS100 Coupe from the 1970s, owned in New Zealand in the early 1990s - it's clearly the inspiration for the A5) and could perhaps be persuaded again. I do so few miles that I probably wouldn't worry about the petrol costs.

I think the chap who recommended an EV didn't bother to read what I wrote - I don't think we are in a similar situation at all. I don't use a car much locally (under 300 miles in a typical month - a tankfull maybe at most) but do enjoy driving holidays and longer trips - which is exactly the other way round from what an EV is useful for. They might work for commuters or the golf club/shopping mall/garden centre brigade but I really don't think the technology is adequate for a non-stop blast to Lubeck, Avignon or Padua, without spending many hours kicking my heels at public charge points. I'm looking at doing a PhD in retirement which will take me around a number of historical archives across Europe and I intend to drive to most of them rather than faff around with public transport and hire cars. EV = no thanks. Maybe in a decade things might have improved sufficient to be almost as good as a proper car. Not holding my breath though, especially planning to spend only £15k - unless the a*** falls out of the EV market of course which I guess is possible if the net zero madness gets dialled back a bit under pressure from the public.

I've considered the Lexus GS450h having previously had the V8 petrol GS430 and liked it a lot (in some ways, nicer even than the XF, albeit not so tastefully done - the V8 is a gem), but before the Jag I briefly owned a hybrid Lexus RX and hated it - noisy petrol V6 with a truly dire CVT box, plus electric motor that only worked to about 25mph, gave me 30mpg (less than the Jag diesel) and drove like a boiled egg.

I could be tempted into a hybrid GS but I'd need to be convinced it wasn't similarly poor to drive .. though at least it wouldn't have the dynamics of an RX which being an SUV of sorts was unnecessarily bloated and unweildy .. a bit footpumped-up and uncool. This would also rule out the Tucson and just about any other SUV, 'compact' or larger. Give me a large saloon any day. I only kept the RX six months and lost money selling it and switching to the XF but it was a daft move on my part in the first place, being persuaded by the wife who liked the idea of being high up and of having a hybrid. Pretty shallow reasoning in retrospect. Thinking about it though I should really have a try at the GS to see if it doesn't have the CVT issue these days.

Though all in all the advice to just hang on for a bit is the thing that resonates - I can see myself getting another 2-3 years out of the XF, major mechanical dramas permitting - might well be the way forward for now.

Though there are a few W12s on Autotrader .... hmmm ....

EDIT: Kia Optima looks interesting, it's no Jag and the only PHEV on Autotrader is a 2018 for £21k, but it has potential,

Edited by Montesquieu on 30/07/2022 at 22:54

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - badbusdriver

Up that budget by £5k and you could get into a nice Bentley Arnage, hmmm.............!

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Heidfirst

Sure that I answereed a very similar thread recently but the 15K budget ruled out my suggestion of a Toyota Camry.

If you can make £21K though ... www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206297277109

Could be kept in manufacturer's warranty for another 7 years depending upon exact date of registration & mileage subject to serviing at a dealer.

Edited by Heidfirst on 02/08/2022 at 12:26

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - tanvir

There are a few Infiniti Q50 3.0/3.5s on auto trader, but I don't know if they are any good. Certainly something different

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Xileno

I still think keeping the XF is the best solution. Unless other issues are coming into play (wife's views), emotion (just fancy a change etc.). It's clearly been well maintained and should last plenty more years yet. I would consider a gearbox service, on the xf forums some owners recommend the ATF and filter is changed at 100,000 miles.

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Engineer Andy

I still think keeping the XF is the best solution. Unless other issues are coming into play (wife's views), emotion (just fancy a change etc.). It's clearly been well maintained and should last plenty more years yet. I would consider a gearbox service, on the xf forums some owners recommend the ATF and filter is changed at 100,000 miles.

If their car is relaible, then I'd also wait until (hopefully) the currently inflationary period ends and prices of cars, especially secondhand ones, comes back down to more reasonable (historic) levels.

This would be predicated upon whether the towns/cities that the OP regularly drives into won't be getting ULEZs yet - an occasional trip once or twice a year costing £10 - £20 is still far cheaper than the cost to change. If they drive very regularly (more than a couple of times a month), then that might change the equation.

As others have said, there are a lot of cars in the 'next tier' down from the so-called 'premium' brands that have decent, reliable and mostly quite fuel efficient petrol-engined cars in the larger size bracket.

The problem comes if the OP wants anothe auto, given I'd avoid any secondhand car auto which had a dual clutch gearbox, perhaps with the exception of a KIA or Hyundai that was still under warranty - whilst there's no guarantee they'd pay out for a fault to be fixed in that regard, any other make would likely not outside of the dealer warranty period.

If the OP is also not that worried about outright performance, then the Mazda6 2L or preferably 2.5L range-topper (and which comes in either saloon or estate) TC auto might well do. Smooth and reliable in petrol form, ok and decent performance respectively. Lots of kit as standard for the money, especially on mid spec SE-L cars.

Lovely to look at (inside and out, especially the updated version (2017-) that reflects the interior design of the current Mazda3/CX-30/CX5) and excellent handling. If possible, try and keep the wheel size as small as possible (and thus the highest sidewall tyres it can take) to ensure the ride isn't overly firm. The good thing is that because of the great inate handling, narrower, higher sidewall tyres do not degrade its driving abilities by much. Doing this on my much older Mazda3 didn't.

Not sure about prices in the current inflationary climate though. That may be where the OP will struggle to get something reasonably new.

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - Steveieb

Let’s hope the Government heeds the warning from Toyota that if hybrids are banned they will cease production in the UK, otherwise this won’t be an option for the OP if he wants to support British industry.

A big employer in Derby and Wrexham but the biggest accolade is that they are producing world class quality cars here in Britain not just wrapping other manufacturers underpinning s in different bodies like Nissan.

Petrol, diesel, hybrid? (No EVs please) - Advice on car for retirement - _

A big employer in Derby and Wrexham

Certainly a big emploer in Derby, but not in Wrexham. Not even in the Wrexham administrative area.

The Toyota factory is on the Wirral buton the welsh side of the border.

Deeside industrial park.