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Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - wantstolearn

The tyre pressures on my fuel flap are 32 psi front 38 psi rear.

Looking on internet should be 29 psi front and rear.

I'm confused. Help please.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Xileno

Go with what the manufacturer says, assuming the wheels and tyre specs are the same as it left the factory with.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - wantstolearn

Thanks for prompt and clear reply.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - elekie&a/c doctor
The pressures on the fuel flap sticker usually gives different settings for different loads .make sure you’re reading the correct info .
Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - wantstolearn

Thanks.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Andrew-T

It's unusual to set rear tyres 6psi higher at the rear except for heavy loading, since most weight is concentrated at the front - even with a rear-drive car. Rear-engine cars are probably different but there aren't many about these days.

Edited by Andrew-T on 05/06/2022 at 17:29

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - wantstolearn

In the handbook it says look inside fuel.flap, which I had been going on. It is 32 psi front and 38 rear. Shouldn't have looked on sites ! Concerned me as I'm obsessive about safety !

Thanks for post.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - elekie&a/c doctor
I think you will find it’s 29 all round for normal use up to 3 people. 32f 38 r are pressures for a fully laden car .
Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - wantstolearn

Thanks. Just been to check and only 32 front 38 rear shown,tyres cold.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Brit_in_Germany

This is what the lable normally looks like

www.partsbit.de/sites/default/files/carpartsphoto/...g

The 32/38 values are for fully loaded, otherwise 30 psi front and back.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - edlithgow

If it handles OK, its OK.

You should feel free to use whatever tyre pressures you want, as long as you dont grossly over or underinflate.

Its your car.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - wantstolearn

I respectfully disagree.

I may be obsessive but for safety, less importantly economy I believe tyre pressures should be exact.

Interested in hearing views.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Rerepo

There is a tyre pressure look-up here which covers the various models and tyre sizes:

www.oponeo.co.uk/tools/tyre-pressure/mercedes

IMHO 32/38psi sounds wrong - possibly that is the maximum. Rear tyre pressure is usually only that much higher when the boot is fully loaded. Its to reduce tyre deformation and hence reduce tyre heating.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Brit_in_Germany

My uneducated opinion would be that the inflated tyre deforms such that the road contact area multiplied by the tyre pressure gives the load carried by the wheel. If you run at 40 psi instead of 30, the contact area will be 1/3 less.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Rerepo

My uneducated opinion would be that the inflated tyre deforms such that the road contact area multiplied by the tyre pressure gives the load carried by the wheel. If you run at 40 psi instead of 30, the contact area will be 1/3 less.

'Uneducated' - you got that bit right! Nothing to do with contact area (which in any event does not vary linearly with pressure). Higher pressures are used to limit sidewall bulge (i,e. deflection) at higher loads. That limits carcass heating. Carcass overheating can result in blowouts.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Xileno
Interesting explanation, not something I would have thought of. 'None of us is as smart as all of us' goes the old saying - something like that anyway.
Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Brit_in_Germany

OK, that model assumes the side walls have no strength, like a balloon, which won't be the case for car tyres, in particular run-flats but the general principle applies. Your cooments re sidewall flexing and heat generation are not relevant here, being related to the effect rather than the cause. Oh, and the arguments seemed to be accepted in my uni entrance exam.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Rerepo

OK, that model assumes the side walls have no strength, like a balloon, which won't be the case for car tyres, in particular run-flats but the general principle applies. Your cooments re sidewall flexing and heat generation are not relevant here, being related to the effect rather than the cause. Oh, and the arguments seemed to be accepted in my uni entrance exam.

What motivates people to write nonsense about subjects they obviously know nothing about?

The reason that tyre pressures are increased with higher load is to reduce sidewall flexing and thereby prevent the tyre from overheating and failing. The amount of flexing is just a function of tyre construction, load and inflation pressure. This flexing includes some stretching of the outer surface of the tyre and of the rubber surrounding the body ply. Stretching rubber results in heat being generated. You can experience this heat generation with a simple test of holding a rubber band against your lip and stretching and releasing the rubber band rapidly. Your lip is sensitive enough to feel the temperature rise of the rubber.

Now if the tyre is correctly inflated the rate of heat generation from sidewall flexing is less than the rate at wHich heat transfers to the outside air and so the tyre does not overheat.

If load on the tyre is increased without increasing pressure then the amount of flexing increases. Rubber is a good insulator and therefore the heat escapes more slowly than it is being generated and the tyre gets hotter. The strength of rubber falls as it gets hotter, resulting in more flexiNg and even more heat generation. The tyre gets hotter still. OVer many miles there is a riSk of tyre failure/blowout. This is all well established and a basic principle of tyre engineering.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Brit_in_Germany

My apologies for writing nonsense. These people seem to write nonsense too.

kktse.github.io/jekyll/update/2019/08/01/re71r-inf...l

The measurements seem to indicate a linear change of contact area with pressure but you say the only effect of changing tyre pressure is the hysterisis in the tyre wall. Ho hum.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Andrew-T

If it handles OK, its OK. Its your car.

All the FWD cars I have owned and driven over 50 years have used similar pressures front and rear for 'normal' loadings (driver and passenger) with a few psi more at the front to allow for the mass of the engine and help the driven wheels to be steered.

If you underinflate, fuel consumption will suffer marginally because the car is continually climbing a slight hill, tyre wear will increase, and tyres will run hotter because of hysteresis loss caused by more flexing in the sidewalls. Overinflated tyres (obviously) have the opposite effects, but reduced contact area on the road can increase the chance of skidding or aquaplaning on wet surfaces.

IMHO 32 front, 38 rear is definitely intended for a loaded vehicle. But I also think that departing from recommended pressures by a few psi will make little difference to anything. Lots of drivers don't check tyre pressures very often.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - wantstolearn

I am rather confused by the debate.

I am concerned with any effect tyre pressures can have. Today I'm going to have a third check inside fuel flap. Perhaps an email to Mercedes ?

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Xileno

Just go with the advice above - use the figures in the fuel flap but adjust for load (usually it's 1 to 3 passengers, then a higher figure for more than 3 plus luggage). Also the figures in the flap will be relating to the wheels and tyres specs it left the factory with. Might a previous owner have put different wheels on?

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Andrew-T

I am concerned with any effect tyre pressures can have. Today I'm going to have a third check inside fuel flap. Perhaps an email to Mercedes ?

You could check with any established tyre fitters (ATS, K-F etc) who have big wall charts giving pressures for every common model of car.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - edlithgow

tw.forumosa.com/t/new-tires-experience-michelin-pp...d

Link (to a tyre pressure tuning method which I've used as a guide and support for running higher than recommended pressures) doesnt seem to be working, so here's the text below.

People ask all the time which suspension units, springs, swaybars etc. they should fit to their cars. Truth is, proper setup of what is already on the car is going to be the best bang-per-buck improvement you can make. A performance alignment and proper tire pressure setup should be the first step even if you are going to replace the whole suspension later.

I tend to buy tires with softer sidewalls than the typical high performance models that you would use on the track or in autocross. I like sticky tires but I’m averse to loud tire noise, so I pick ones with a sticky compound and medium stiff sidewalls, then tune out as much rollover as possible with air pressure.

Note here that tire pressures shown in your (car) owners manual are the minimum values, not the optimum. The manufacturers provide these values based on what is safe in all conditions and for the average driver, and biased toward quiet and comfort. Tires may be run at any pressure you like up to the maximum given by the manufacturer.

Rollover is the tendency of a tire to stick on the road but allow the lateral load from cornering forces to try and roll the tire off the rim. Rollover is deformation of the sidewall where the section of the tire and rim changes from a rectangle into a trapezoid. Such deformation upsets steering geometry, adds undamped spring forces into the steering system and reduces overall weight on the contact patch which reduces total grip. Reducing rollover will reduce these effects and increase the lateral G’s the car can manage in a controlled manner and so increase cornering speeds.

How do you find the optimum pressure for a street car when it could lay anywhere between (say) 28 and 50psi? First you have to see how bad the rollover problem is by seeing how much of the sidewall is coming into the contact patch. With an ordinary stick of chalk you make lines from the contact patch up the sidewall at 5cm intervals around the outside of the tires. Go to a closed course and do hard corners or continous circles with a mind to creating the highest lateral G forces possible. Check and see how far the chalk has been rubbed off the tire from the corner radius up the sidewall.
Next make lines straight across each tire from sidewall to sidewall, again at 5cm intervals around the tire. What we want to see is how flat the tire is approaching the road. We want to see even pressure across the whole contact patch in order to get the best grip from the tire in a straight line and also get the best wear. Underinflating the tire would see most of the load on the corner radius areas which are supported by the sidewalls. Overinflation would see the tire balloon a bit (like a motorcycle tire) and the contact patch would be biased toward a narrow strip in the middle. Again at a closed test track, make hard starts and stops in a straight line and then examine the chalk lines. If we had started testing at the car manufacturers recommended values we would probably see the tires are underinflated and the chalk lines are worn more on the corners than in the middle. Bump the pressures up 2psi at a time until the bias shifts to a center pattern, and then back off (as a rule of thum) 2psi. Running the tires too hard reduces the contact patch and will increase stopping distances. Be sure to maintain the difference in front to rear pressure that the car manufacturer recommends at this point. For example if the handbook recommends 28psi front and 26psi, then keep the front tires 2psi harder than the rears as the pressures increase.
Once the contact patches are optimised like this we can try the cornering testing again to see how much less rollover we have. On an average street performance tire you will notice that the highest lateral G’s you can pull in the car are significantly higher, though you notice more body roll as the suspension has to work harder now that the tires are rolling less. Check the chalk marks to see how much less of the sidewall has been in contact with the road surface.

Note that touring tires with very soft sidewalls will show very little improvement via these techniques. Some of them have such flimsy sidewalls you would have to dangerously overinflate the tire to get any reduction in rollover. Never exceed the manufacturer’s maximum pressure figures. Always set tire pressures cold. Running tires near to the maximum pressure may result in unbearable road noise. Be careful running street tires at continous high G loads as they can get overheated quickly and bad things then happen.

Note that changing the offset between front and rear tire pressures will change the handling behaviour of the car, shifting toward either under or oversteer. Sometimes reducing the total grip at one end of the car or the other may actually make the car quicker on tighter courses where being able to rotate the car quickly saves time. Note that such a setup may be fine for a skilled driver in an autocross event but may cause snap oversteer on wet roads with a less disciplined driver. What works for racing is not usually the best setup on the street.
You may want to experiment with that front/rear pressure offset in order to find what works best for you, but as a rule of thumb you should probably not increase the offset by more than double or decrease it to less than half. Needing to do so would suggest you have suspension or alignment issues you need to work out first.

Its a bit long, I suppose, and most people probably couldn't be bothered with the procedure, but the main points are

(a) manufacturers recommendations are a starting point, and higher pressures will generally give improved performance and economy.

(b) You shouldn't greatly change the front/rear differential.

As has been said, the front/rear differential quoted by the OP seems a bit high and is perhaps for a heavily loaded vehicle.

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - Andrew-T

One other factor which I haven't seen mentioned is that overinflation causes faster wear in the centre of the tread, while underinflation means faster wear on the shoulders. Presumably the recommended pressures should aim for more even wear ?

Mercedes AW169. 2011 - Tyre pressure - edlithgow

One other factor which I haven't seen mentioned is that overinflation causes faster wear in the centre of the tread, while underinflation means faster wear on the shoulders. Presumably the recommended pressures should aim for more even wear ?

"If we had started testing at the car manufacturers recommended values we would probably see the tires are underinflated and the chalk lines are worn more on the corners than in the middle."

An assertion, without any supporting evidence, but the guy making it did tend to know whereof he spoke.

Edited by edlithgow on 08/06/2022 at 13:43