PS: Taken off www.drive.com.au ; deals purely with Oz and sorry for it being so long.
I can't believe it's not better
By Peter McKay
The Sydney Morning Herald
Tuesday August 19 2003
When a new car turns out to be a lemon, NSW buyers have revamped consumer legislation in their favour. Some buyers are still bitter. Peter McKay reports.
Early this year, Anastasia Joyce, her husband and three children, all of Sydney, were travelling towards Warwick, Queensland in their two-year-old Mercedes-Benz four-wheel drive. About 10pm, the vehicle's dash lights began flashing, the engine lost power and the $110,000 ML430 slowed alarmingly as a semi-trailer loomed large in the rear-view mirror.
As the Mercedes faltered -- its speedo needle leaping erratically -- the truck behind braked and swerved to the wrong side of the road, its horn blasting a warning. "It was really quite frightening," Joyce recalled.
Stunned, the family set about seeking help. Mercedes-Benz has a reassuring 24-hour emergency hotline, but her mobile phone was in a communications black hole.
Soon after, the Joyces got the ML430 started, without any dash lights -- only to have the same fault reappear after about 20 minutes under way. The Mercedes hotline, now contactable, advised to try once more and drive slowly.
The family reached Warwick at 11.30. The following day, en route to Armidale, the Mercedes developed the intermittent staggers again. It reached Tenterfield, where the family left it with the NRMA and hired a car.
The ML430, a well-kept vehicle with no crash history and just 11,500km on the odo, is the centre of continuing negotiations between Ms Joyce and Mercedes-Benz.
She wants a new, replacement ML430 or even a smaller-engined ML320, or financial compensation. Her troublesome car, in which she has lost all confidence, is "a new car which should be replaced with a new car".
A Sydney Mercedes dealership -- which, she says, has been very helpful and sympathetic -- advised that her ML had an electrical module fault. The trip computer was replaced because of some history of faults with this component in ML Benzes.
The fault has not come back. But, seven months later, the ML is rarely driven and stands in the garage. "We don't want to gamble on taking the vehicle into the country again where we feel the problem will return," Ms Joyce told Drive. "We do not feel safe in this particular vehicle."
Mercedes-Benz Australia told Drive that its dealer addressed Ms Joyce's concerns by replacing a faulty trip computer.
"As the satisfaction and safety of our customers is a core value," the company said, "we conducted extensive road testing of the vehicle, during which time Ms Joyce was supplied an E Class Estate loan car.
"However after several weeks of testing we could not fault the vehicle so it was returned to Ms Joyce. We are confident the problem will not recur."
So is Anastasia Joyce's Mercedes a lemon -- a vehicle riddled with faults -- or merely one of many that have faults fixed under warranty?
It is hard to say. However, despite large improvements in manufacturing quality over the past decade, some substandard cars continue to slip through the net.
All car makers receive complaints from owners. Some are justified. Others are unreasonable and perhaps inspired by customers getting into financial difficulties after buying a car, or realising they've made an inappropriate choice.
The latter type of complainant, say car dealers and company customer relations staff, are easy to spot. They demand a refund, not rectification or replacement, and nothing else will satisfy them.
Amendments last year to the NSW Motor Dealers Act of 1977 enable the independent Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal to determine a dispute. If it finds in favour of the consumer it can make an order for compensation -- ranging up to the replacement of a new motor vehicle.
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That said, the NSW Office of Fair Trading could furnish no examples of an aggrieved owner, having bought an acknowledged lemon, getting a new vehicle or substantial compensation (there was just one Yamaha motorcycle, valued at $2000).
This suggests cars have become almost unbelievably reliable -- or the system isn't delivering.
A spokesman for Fair Trading suggests a third alternative: some matters are resolved before a formal hearing occurs. Certainly there is evidence of car makers quietly replacing vehicles before owners make a noise.
In comparison, in the US -- where legislation defines exactly what constitutes a lemon -- car companies are forced to buy back more than 100,000 faulty cars each year (see breakout, below).
"There is no particular reason to provide a definition of a lemon here," says the Fair Trading spokesman. "It would be a very difficult thing to do and it may hinder what the tribunal could hear."
Not everyone is convinced, with Alan Finlay from NRMA Motoring and Services saying "car purchasers do not really know where they stand if the vehicle is defective".
He believes a clear definition of a lemon would be worth pursuing, but concedes "it would be very difficult to frame legislation to actually define it".
Before the tribunal can arbitrate, the vehicle should be returned to the dealer to rectify.
If faults are not fixed under warranty to the owner's satisfaction, the next recourse could be the tribunal.
The tribunal can adjudicate on disputes involving all new vehicles in private use, regardless of value. Other than an initial application fee, there are no legal expenses -- although the tribunal can award costs against the complainant if the matter is considered vexatious or frivolous.
Previously, disputes were resolved by the Motor Dealers Disputes Committee, made up of representives of Fair Trading, the NRMA, the car builders' section of the metalworkers' union, the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (the car industry lobby) and, representing dealers, the Motor Traders Association. The committee made recommendations to the director-general of the Office of Fair Trading, but had no power to order replacement or refunds.
Written judgements published on the tribunal's website (www.cttt.nsw.gov.au) make fascinating reading. Applications range from a few hundred dollars for unsatisfactory window tinting, through to demands for a brand new vehicle.
In Pearson v Geoff King Autocare Coffs Harbour and Land Rover Australia, the applicant claimed $48,000 or a new replacement vehicle, following a claimed litany of problems suffered over two years with a Land Rover Freelander.
The complaint listed excessive tyre wear, steering problems, burned out clutches, brake failure, power steering leaks and a lack of power and said the vehicle spent more than 100 days in the dealership.
Claiming the vehicle was not of merchantable quality, the applicant said, "I seek a replacement vehicle. I do not want a Land Rover as this has caused me undue stress and life changes." He said he now took medication for anxiety and depression because of his car problems.
The respondents said they had replaced defective items under warranty, and several "wear and tear" items such as tyres and clutches as an act of good faith, even though they believed the premature wear "can be attributed to misuse of the vehicle".
They had also supplied the owner with a hire car at no cost while these repairs were done, had paid for towing and other costs and made other goodwill gestures.
"Land Rover does not believe the evidence supports the applicant's claim that the vehicle is a 'lemon'. The vehicle was recalled on a couple of occasions to rectify manufacturing problems, this is normal procedure."
The tribunal dismissed the application. It found there had been inconvenience caused by delays in repairs being completed, but said the respondents had provided fair compensation, paying for things such as the clutch assemblies "which are clearly not due to manufacturing fault or defect".
"The tribunal is not satisfied ... that there were misrepresentations ... or that the vehicle is a lemon."
It took nearly a year and eight trips to a dealer to fix the fuel gauge in Anna Sholkie's Mitsubishi Verada wagon. The gauge didn't work accurately when she took delivery of the car in June last year, showing empty when it was really about half full.
It wasn't a life-threatening fault, but a frustrating and unnecessary one. If it happened in California she would have been entitled to a replacement new car.
Each time the car went back to the workshop, the parts were either unavailable or the work done did not rectify the fault.
In early May she complained to Mitsubishi head office in Adelaide. An emailed response explained the part was out of stock and had to come from Japan.
She was perplexed. Why couldn't Mitsubishi pluck the part from the production line? Or why couldn't the dealer take the part from a car in stock?
Finally, in early June, a new gauge cluster was fitted and the problem now appears to have been solved.
"Apart from the fuel gauge fault, I'm really happy with the car - this is my second one," she says. "But it shouldn't have taken the dealership and Mitsubishi almost a year to correct." Mitsubishi's response: "We couldn't get a part off the line because the Sholkies' car was a KJ Series 1, and the cars being built down the line at the time of the latest problem were for KJ Series 2.
"The meter cluster changed over that time, meaning we couldn't get one off the line that would be compatible with the Sholkie's car. After a bit of a search we located one, and the problem is solved as far as we know."
A former executive with a luxury vehicle importer admits that, during a particularly rough time for the brand he was selling, he was obliged to buy back quietly between five and 10 vehicles a year from disgruntled owners.
He concedes most complaints were justified, but says others were very suspect -- often following changes in the owners' personal circumstances which meant they probably could not afford the repayments. "But they were making a lot of noise so we figured we had to buy them off to shut them up."
Now out of the car business, the former executive believes many manufacturers do new-for-used swaps on a similar scale -- though none who spoke to Drive admitted as much.
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Just to redress the balance here ,I purchased a T3 D4D 114 bhp just over a month ago.
(Touching wood) I have been delighted with the build quality and level of interior fittings,as I have with the car generally. We are at 1200 miles and averaging 47mpg overall.Sometimes there is a slight reluctance to engage reverse on start up but otherwise as yet I cannot fualt this machine at all.
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Aprilia is quite correct as I have direct experience of working at Toyota motor manufacturing and I will repeat what I said in a long forgotton thread, between 20 and 40 cars per shift that left the Toyota factory (there were 2 shifts per day) were classed a "B" ranked ie they had serious enough faults to be classed as lower than normal "A" rank cars in terms of quality. Remember that a Toyota quality control worker only has 57 seconds to correct any fault on a car in his work sector before the car moves past his workstation, with the exception of the painshop and paint hsopital where a car can be "detracked" for more serious fault resolution.
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Steve
My Corolla isn't the top sport one, that's the 1.8 T-Sport which I read elsewhere has it's own engine and quality issues. My T-Spirit is the top range of the "normal" Corolla. The thing is I like the performance, fuel economy, equipment, ride etc.
It's these niggling problems which wear you down. Toyota UK don't put any pressure on the dealer to fix the car first time round (I have been back to my dealer 3+ times for the same issue).
I think What Car? sum the Corolla up when they say it doesn't shine in any area, just does a steady job. And compared to Corollas of old, is more stylish and thought out.
I agree SEAT (and I had the Leon 2 cars before the Corolla-more on that in a minute) does have it's share of problems-leaks and coil packs mainly, but the dealer does at least sort thing out ASAP, without fuss and with an apology-something my Toyota dealer can never master.
Before the Corolla I had an Audi A2. It was replaced by the dealer due to problems. The 2nd A2 had a different set of problems and I should have rejected that, but instead had to sell and suffer a £5k+ loss in 4 months. So I put Audi in the same league as Toyota-claim quality but just don't deliver.
All this is my experience though-other drivers suffer far less than me.
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arnold2 + Steve
Also:
Interesting about your comments on the gearbox. Would the motoring press put this down as a "trait" of the Corolla?
Or is there something more sinister going on here?
And:
Interesting how Toyota have made revised engine mounts, manifold inlet and radio/dash support available-this isn't down to poor workmanship at the factory-just poor design.
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Interesting that Toyota have had to make so many design changes to all the NEW (ie non Japanese) bits in the new Corolla....
And why was it that the new Corolla costs, model for model, more than the old, Japanese built, job ?
Since the car is now made in England you would have thought that the price would go down !
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The new Corrolla cost £2500 to make at the end of the production line in 2002, The older Corrolla model cost £3500 to make as an average value per unit.
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The new Corrolla cost £2500 to make at the end of the production line in 2002, The older Corrolla model cost £3500 to make as an average value per unit.
A near-30% fall in construction costs? Are you sure?
That's a staggering achievement, and it seems unlikely to me -- could it just be a consequence of exchange-rate fluctuations, or is it really due to cheaper construction/improved eficiency etc?
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