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Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Xileno

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57666008

Some good news but as the article states, this needs to be just the beginning of the UK's battery capability.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - JonestHon

Hot water you touch there sir.

Good news indeed and as Reuters reported today it’s a drop in the pond compared to the 49 GWh of capacity in the rest of Europe, according to Benchmark Mineral Intelligence. The Nissan factory will provide the juice for 100,000 battery-powered rides a year. That’s less than one-tenth of the UK’s pre-pandemic car production, over half of which is currently exported to the European Union.

The shortfall matters because by 2027 British-made cars destined for the EU must source 55% of their value from the UK or EU to avoid tariffs. Batteries account for up to half of a car’s value.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Rerepo

A fantastic Brexit Boost for Britain which totally destroys the Remainers' Project Fear lies that 'Nissan will quit Britain' if Brexit goes ahead. This is a huge vote of confidence by the Japanese in a free and sovereign Great Britain. Expect more good news stories like this over the coming year as we Build Back Better!

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Xileno

I can't find out how much the Govt. threw into the pot to make this happen, it would be interesting to know.

Threads involving Brexit usually don't end well but we will let this run for now providing:

  • Brexit discussions relate to impacts on the motor industry, either good or bad.
  • People are civil to each other.

If it becomes too political or any sniping or general unpleasantness then it gets locked.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - sammy1

The UK taxpayer is throwing away £500million

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - alan1302

The UK taxpayer is throwing away £500million

How do you know?

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - JonestHon

The Sunday Times puts it at around £100 million without asking to repay it, so not sure how this compares with subsidies given by continental governments to car makers where it is a low rate loan instead of assistance in this case.

Remember that all the UK is getting here is jobs and some taxation, which is good. The big profit, as always, ends up on foreign soil showing how unambitious is most governments since the early '80s.

I think the issue here is that we compare Apples with Oranges.

The new factory will create 2000 automotive and supply chain jobs vs 10000 lost during the pandemic (as reported by the FT at the end of Jan 2021), so there is a net loss to the NE region when you open these numbers by region. The second point is that building batteries is, on average, a lowered paid job compared to building complete cars (as testified by ex-Tesla workers around the globe).

The conclusion is not that a subsidy is necessarily a bad thing. Still, a relatively little help will do very little for the industry, the ambition reflected in the money given to Nissan is like driving in first gear. On the other hand, imagine what 37 Billion squids thrown at the car manufacturing sector can do!

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - daveyjp

Nissan said there was no plan B in the event of a 'no deal' Brexit as WTO terms would seriously affect Sunderland.

There is a deal. That deal means to prevent tariffs which could make their cars more expensive than cars produced in Japan (remember there will be zero tariff on cars between Japan and EU) they need to manufacture an increasing number of components in the UK. As batteries are a significant component of an EV they need to make them in the UK.

This decision and the £100-200m Government grant (actual figure not yet revealed) will enable this. It will also mean Nissan start employing staff to replace the many hundreds they have made redundant over the last 10-15 years.

The bottom line is Nissan made the decisions which benefitted Nissan and their French partners because that's how huge corporations work.

Edited by daveyjp on 02/07/2021 at 22:57

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Sofa Spud

A fantastic Brexit Boost for Britain which totally destroys the Remainers' Project Fear lies that 'Nissan will quit Britain' if Brexit goes ahead. This is a huge vote of confidence by the Japanese in a free and sovereign Great Britain. Expect more good news stories like this over the coming year as we Build Back Better!

Let's get one thing absolutely clear. The UK was a free and sovereign state when we were in the EU. The very fact we were able to leave the EU proves this. Whether we will be better off long-term outside the EU I very much doubt.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - brum

The shortfall matters because by 2027 British-made cars destined for the EU must source 55% of their value from the UK or EU to avoid tariffs. Batteries account for up to half of a car’s value.

Using an example of an EV with a 60kwh battery, and ave market cost of EV batteries supposedly $137 per kwh and falling, the cost of the battery would be around $8220 or less than £6000. Unless we are talking Dacia, I doubt that batteries would represent 50% of a vehicles cost in 2027. Unless we are being ripped off.....

about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-cited-belo.../

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - JonestHon

Up to 50%.

Will prices go down? We will need to wait.

WFH full time will not see me in an EV (or any new motor ) for the foreseeable future.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Xileno

It will be interesting to see what JLR decides to do - either manufacture their own batteries of buy them in. They will need to make a decision quite quickly, given their timescales to all-electric are quite soon.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Engineer Andy

It will be interesting to see what JLR decides to do - either manufacture their own batteries of buy them in. They will need to make a decision quite quickly, given their timescales to all-electric are quite soon.

Hasn't there been rumblings of Tesla setting up a production facility in the UK, including of batteries?

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - SLO76

Investing tax payers money in this is a good idea. If we can jumpstart the infrastructure for mass production of the cars, battery packs and other components it’ll generate thousands of well paid tax generating jobs. I’d rather see it here than elsewhere. Along with PSA’s announcement regarding new electric vans it’s good to see that we have a pro business government actively trying to secure the future of our car and component manufacturing industry.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - JonestHon

It can't be bad news. But..

F business said our dear leader and went to shrink the economy in the name of some ideology.

Pro business maybe they see themselves historically, but no evidence for being more ambitious then previous governments.

An announcement about building a new van somewhere was not the stuff of major headlines pre 2016 but now it is pushed hard to be in the news agenda while news about food shortages get reported without a word about the real cause.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Rerepo

It can't be bad news. But..

F business said our dear leader and went to shrink the economy in the name of some ideology.

Pro business maybe they see themselves historically, but no evidence for being more ambitious then previous governments.

An announcement about building a new van somewhere was not the stuff of major headlines pre 2016 but now it is pushed hard to be in the news agenda while news about food shortages get reported without a word about the real cause.

Covid shrank the economy, not the PM.

The new investments in the motor industry are headline news because they safeguard and create thousands of well paid jobs in areas that desperately need them. They are a massive vote of confidence by global corporations in a free Britain

I've no idea what food shortages you refer to. Have Aldi run out of frozen burgers? Been shopping this morning at Sainsbury's and Waitrose and all the shelves were full......

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - JonestHon

For fun put in Google images 'Supermarkets UK food shortages'.

Then sort the images by date, if it's still not clear I suggest spec savers.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Rerepo

For fun put in Google images 'Supermarkets UK food shortages'.

Then sort the images by date, if it's still not clear I suggest spec savers.

You're a bit late with Project Fear my frIend. All the supermarkets I use are very well stocked.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - JonestHon

Sorry, I don't buy this and I don't take sides, just want what's best for the majority of citizens of this isle.

www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/06/sainsbury...r

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Bromptonaut

I've no idea what food shortages you refer to. Have Aldi run out of frozen burgers? Been shopping this morning at Sainsbury's and Waitrose and all the shelves were full......

Every supermarket I've been in recently has had gaps on the shelves. That includes Morrisons, Tesco, Sainsbury and Waitrose in places from Folkestone to Fort William.

That's a combination of Border friction and Transport trouble including a shortage of lorry drivers. Part of that is Covid and part structural issues between Supermarkets and the big logistics companies but Brexit and the loss of EEA drivers is an issue too.

If they had only pre-settled status then it's impossible or at least very difficult, if laid off, to claim Universal Credit. That is a fact in my personal and professional knowledge.

That many went home as a consequence is 2+2+4 territory.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Rerepo

I've no idea what food shortages you refer to. Have Aldi run out of frozen burgers? Been shopping this morning at Sainsbury's and Waitrose and all the shelves were full......

Every supermarket I've been in recently has had gaps on the shelves. That includes Morrisons, Tesco, Sainsbury and Waitrose in places from Folkestone to Fort William.

That's a combination of Border friction and Transport trouble including a shortage of lorry drivers. Part of that is Covid and part structural issues between Supermarkets and the big logistics companies but Brexit and the loss of EEA drivers is an issue too.

If they had only pre-settled status then it's impossible or at least very difficult, if laid off, to claim Universal Credit. That is a fact in my personal and professional knowledge.

That many went home as a consequence is 2+2+4 territory.

Best part of 6 million have applied for the UK's EU Settlement Scheme. I'd have thought there'd have been a few lorry drivers amongst them. Or do we have to bring even more EU citizens? Or maybe there'd be less demand for food/houses/doctors/schools if there were a few million FEWER people on our overcrowded islands? Seems the more that come here the more we need to come here...

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - alan1302

Best part of 6 million have applied for the UK's EU Settlement Scheme. I'd have thought there'd have been a few lorry drivers amongst them. Or do we have to bring even more EU citizens? Or maybe there'd be less demand for food/houses/doctors/schools if there were a few million FEWER people on our overcrowded islands? Seems the more that come here the more we need to come here...

Most people that apply for the settlement scheme will already live and work here so if there are lorry drivers there then they would already be working as one so does not help get more drivers.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Brit_in_Germany

Ah, a brexit thread which hasn't been locked. Strange that.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - alan1302

Ah, a brexit thread which hasn't been locked. Strange that.

Think it will be shortly! LOL

Although isn't actually about Brexit in the slightest - just some good news for the folks that work at Nissan or are suppliers.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Xileno

Discussions about lorry drivers is still sufficiently motoring related but it's getting a bit marginal in other areas of the thread. We will see how it develops.

More importantly people are being polite to each other so far...

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Bromptonaut

Best part of 6 million have applied for the UK's EU Settlement Scheme. I'd have thought there'd have been a few lorry drivers amongst them. Or do we have to bring even more EU citizens? Or maybe there'd be less demand for food/houses/doctors/schools if there were a few million FEWER people on our overcrowded islands? Seems the more that come here the more we need to come here...

Six million is the number of applications, some apply more than once either because of problems or to move from Pre-Settled to Settled Status. Some of them, particularly those laid off and unable to access benefits, will have gone home. Others are applying to cover their bases but not here at present.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/05/why-6m-se...k

These islands are not overcrowded; if governments of both stripes haven't allowed services to develop where they're needed that's a blame issue not a numbers issue.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Rerepo

These islands are not overcrowded; if governments of both stripes haven't allowed services to develop where they're needed that's a blame issue not a numbers issue.

Not overcrowded compared to Hong Kong but overcrowded compared to most countries that are pleasant to live in. Personally I value quality of life and don't want to see every square inch of countryside built on. Whilst an every increasing population may benefit large corporations (more customers, more profit) it doesn't seem to benefit the average working person. Maybe there's a limit to how many take-away shops, hand car washes, Deliveroo riders and Uber drivers a country needs?

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - alan1302

Maybe there's a limit to how many take-away shops, hand car washes, Deliveroo riders and Uber drivers a country needs?

Apart from the hand car washes all of the rest have needed a lot more staff over the past year - and you can't magic up people to work in those places.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Bromptonaut

Not overcrowded compared to Hong Kong but overcrowded compared to most countries that are pleasant to live in. Personally I value quality of life and don't want to see every square inch of countryside built on. Whilst an every increasing population may benefit large corporations (more customers, more profit) it doesn't seem to benefit the average working person. Maybe there's a limit to how many take-away shops, hand car washes, Deliveroo riders and Uber drivers a country needs?

Growing economies attract, nay require, additional workers. In the past we've had them from the New Commonwealth then from Europe. Hong Kong Chinese, who have been promised an open door, will presumably fill the gaps.

Round here (Northampton) most EU migrants were working in logistics and distribution, something which reflected in requests for both benefit and employment advice.

Car washes are a different issue with a significant number suspected of being criminal enterprises who's labour was not EU (eg Albania) and with a primary purpose of laundering money.

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Warning

Growing economies attract, nay require, additional workers. In the past we've had them from the New Commonwealth then from Europe. Hong Kong Chinese, who have been promised an open door, will presumably fill the gaps.

Those coming from Hong Kong, will be people with money. Many of those BNO passports were given in the 1980s. Some came over after the handover and many stayed over. They are being pressured to surrender their British citizenship and become citizens of China. Those who reject it, will be coming over. They will need to provide evidence they can sustain themselves for at least 6 months and then have forms of income beyond that.

Car washes are a different issue with a significant number suspected of being criminal enterprises who's labour was not EU (eg Albania) and with a primary purpose of laundering money.

I recall reading about this in the newspapers. It is sensational journalism for the sake of clicks. I am sure there are elements of criminality going on, but it is unkind to use words such as "significant" and smear an entire industry. Why have n't they been shut down?.

We have allowed immigration and they will be drawn to jobs, which matches their skill sets. Zero language skills. I am sure they rather work in wash cars, then in a chicken processing factory.

There plenty of kids on my street, but in all the years, no enterprising child has offered to wash my car for pocket money....

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Xileno

Can we try and keep this as close to motoring as possible please. I suppose car washes are but it's getting a bit tenuous in some parts. (general observation, not aimed at anyone specific)

Edited by Xileno on 08/07/2021 at 17:04

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - Brit_in_Germany

Car washes are known for modern slavery crimes and should be reported to stop the exploitation of these poor people:

www.gla.gov.uk/whats-new/latest-press-releases/050.../

Nissan announces major UK electric car expansion - JonestHon

If cars need to be built here and the economy to thrive, looking to block access will not sort the driver's shortage or any other role for that matter.

For the love of puppies, c19 was not the reason for the economy shrinking! Why would you say that?

Allowing uncontrolled virus into our island, not trying to seriously stop it going unchecked and then seeing our NHS not keeping up, so we need severe lockdown that shrink the economy. I think you can find that these are historical facts and not just here. The excuse I hear that this was all new doesn't wash with me. The only thing new is that we have an inexperienced gov at the helm; virologists and epidemiology specialists were plenty pre-2020.

Edited by JonestHon on 09/07/2021 at 14:01