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bristol lodekka - engine idle - menu du jour

Back when I was about five or six years old [about 1958] the local bus company operated the Bristol Lodekka. Even then I thought this an amusing name for a double decker bus.

A consultation with Mr Google soon dispelled that misunderstanding but I have a question about the idle of the engine.

At a bus stop or in traffic [not often in those days] the engine would rev up then die away almost seeming to stall and then do it again until the bus moved off.

If anyone can throw light on this it would be greatly appreciated.

The town in lived in was Taunton by the way, a pleasant place back then but a bit bigger and busier now.

Phil

bristol lodekka - engine idle - Bromptonaut

West Yorkshire Road Car Company had a fleet of Lodekkas which were gradually replaced with Bristol/ECW VRs from around 69 onwards. They were regulars on our School Bus but I don't remember the engine characteristic you mention.

In my mind it was closer to the boggler boggler sound Steve Bell alludes to in his If cartoons.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - badbusdriver

Just had a look at a couple of YT video clips featuring the Lodekka and while there is some evidence of a slightly 'chuntery' idle on one of them, I couldn't hear what the OP is describing. Maybe the bus in question was out of tune?.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - galileo

Back in the 1950s our council mainly ran AEC double and single deckers.

They did have several Daimler 'low-deckers' which were the only ones that could pass under a low viaduct on the Holme Valley routes. They sometimes appeared on my route to school as well.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - bathtub tom

Sounds as if it was a mechanical governor type action.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - Engineer Andy

Back in the 1950s our council mainly ran AEC double and single deckers.

They did have several Daimler 'low-deckers' which were the only ones that could pass under a low viaduct on the Holme Valley routes. They sometimes appeared on my route to school as well.

Not sure (or can remember) what exactly it was, but in the 1980s one the firms bussing me and others in my area to secondary school had a, old 1950s single decker bus as well the usual coaches. Reminded me later on when the TV series 'Heartbeat' was on. Needless to say it was so slow (the bus) and was embarrassing arriving like that to school. I do remember it having great trouble in getting up some local steep hills.

Ironically in middle age, I wouldn't mind a trip on it (I doubt if it's still around - it always broke down [hence more embarrassment]), rather like the Steam trains (I'm too young to have seen them in action on BR) when I'm holiday in the West Country.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - badbusdriver

Re the name 'lodekker' and the apparent irony, while I was driving buses, most of the deckers were around the same height and were rear engined. Which makes complete sense, I mean why would you make a double decker any taller than necessary?. But we did get a couple of Volvo deckers for 6 months or so, which were the exception to the rule. I was very surprised to learn that they were mid engined as I had, up till then, assumed all deckers to be rear engined (well apart from the classic half-cabs). There was a (naturally) noticeable difference in the floor height (ground clearance too weirdly), which of course had a knock on effect to the overall height of the bus. I can't remember the actual figures, but if memory serves, they weren't far short of a foot taller than our usual rear engined deckers. They drove well enough in town, but on twisty and bumpy country roads, they were quite 'bouncy', with much more body movement!.

Not sure (or can remember) what exactly it was, but in the 1980s one the firms bussing me and others in my area to secondary school had a, old 1950s single decker bus as well the usual coaches. Reminded me later on when the TV series 'Heartbeat' was on. Needless to say it was so slow (the bus) and was embarrassing arriving like that to school. I do remember it having great trouble in getting up some local steep hills.

Ironically in middle age, I wouldn't mind a trip on it (I doubt if it's still around - it always broke down [hence more embarrassment]), rather like the Steam trains (I'm too young to have seen them in action on BR) when I'm holiday in the West Country.

My nearest 'motoring' museum, Grampian Transport Museum (well worth a look for any forum members who happen to be in the area!). Obviously things are a bit low key at the moment, but under normal circumstances there are various events held there. At the bigger of those, one of their classic buses would be used to take visitors from the overflow car park to the museum.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - menu du jour
Many thanks for the replies to my question.
It is much appreciated.
Phil
bristol lodekka - engine idle - galileo

For those who have not seen a 'lowdecker' example the upper deck had a sunken footway along one side (usually the right hand side) with the seats on a floor about a foot higher.

This meant you could walk upright along the 'trench ' on the right, once sitting on the seats the roof could be lower than on a standard double decker.

These all dated from the half-cab front-engine era, as far as I know.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - Bromptonaut

For those who have not seen a 'lowdecker' example the upper deck had a sunken footway along one side (usually the right hand side) with the seats on a floor about a foot higher.

This meant you could walk upright along the 'trench ' on the right, once sitting on the seats the roof could be lower than on a standard double decker.

These all dated from the half-cab front-engine era, as far as I know.

The propshaft was off set, hence the raised seats,

The odd Lodekka was still in service on the Isle of Wight tourist services into the nineties.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - Sofa Spud

For those who have not seen a 'lowdecker' example the upper deck had a sunken footway along one side (usually the right hand side) with the seats on a floor about a foot higher.

This meant you could walk upright along the 'trench ' on the right, once sitting on the seats the roof could be lower than on a standard double decker.

These all dated from the half-cab front-engine era, as far as I know.

The 'lowdecker' you refer to is the old-fashioned 'lowbridge' type of bus body. But the Bristol 'Lodekka' was a 'low-height' bus - where they managed to retain the central gangway upstairs with pairs of seats either side on a bus that was the same height as the old lowbridge side gangway type. This was achieved by building the chassis as low as possible.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 30/04/2023 at 20:46

bristol lodekka - engine idle - jp2021

Most of these used Gardner or Leyland o600/o680 engines . If you google' Bradford Leyland Titan pd3' does the blue one emerging from the garage has the idle sound you recall?

These had governed idle speeds ( to avoid stalling ,even at idle if the revs drop as drive is taken, up the pump increases fueling) and this can lead to hunting .

As an aside, whilst Gardners were built to last the smoke from cold starts is amazing. Often specified by municipal bus operators who put long service life before cost many ex West Midlands Travel double deckers with original Gardners from mid 80s are still in use as school buses today. When the buses are scrapped the engines are exported to have another life driving pumps or boats.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - Middleman

The Bristol "Lodekka" did not have a sunken gangway on the upper deck. The arrangements upstairs were as in a conventional double deck bus. They were about a foot shorter than conventional half cab double deckers (13'6" as opposed to 14'6"). This was achieved, as mentioned, by an offset prop shaft together with a lowered rear axle. meaning a much lower floor level in the lower saloon. The prop shaft was accommodated in the earlier versions under a raised platform for the lower deck seats but the very last versions had a level flat floor across the full width of the lower saloon. This also enabled there to be step-free access from the platform to the lower saloon.

The bus that had a sunken gangway upstairs was the London Transport "RLH":

IAN'S BUS STOP: The LONDON TRANSPORT RLH (countrybus.org)

Edited by Middleman on 29/06/2021 at 19:51

bristol lodekka - engine idle - Sofa Spud

The London Transport RLH was a 'lowbridge' type bus, with the sunken upstairs gangway on the offside. This was a common type of design and a lot of older Bristol / Eastern Coach Works double-deckers were lowbridge, with a similar layout to the RLH. These were bullt on Brisol K, KS or KSW chassis. These chassis designs were not special and were also used for full height ECW bodies with normal centre ganways.

The Bristol Lodekka - LD, LDL, FS, FL, FLF and FSF were 'lowheight'. This means low overall height but with normal upstairs seating layout with centre gangway, achieved by building the chassis extra low with offset propshaft and diff with drop centre axle. I believe most front engined double-deckers had their diff offset a bit, but on the Lodekka was much more so. The very first prototype Lodekka had two propshafts, one to each rear hub, with the diff at the front behind the gearbox. This idea was soon abandoned.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - badbusdriver

The very first prototype Lodekka had two propshafts, one to each rear hub, with the diff at the front behind the gearbox. This idea was soon abandoned.

That sounds a bit like the DAF (car) 'Variomatic' CVT, where each rear wheel had its own drive!.

04-6-1024x998.jpg

bristol lodekka - engine idle - galileo

The very first prototype Lodekka had two propshafts, one to each rear hub, with the diff at the front behind the gearbox. This idea was soon abandoned.

That sounds a bit like the DAF (car) 'Variomatic' CVT, where each rear wheel had its own drive!.

04-6-1024x998.jpg

Exactly so. I had two, a DAF 55 and then a 66. About 20 bolts held on the plastic undertray you had to remove to change drive belts. They went quite well considering moderate engine power, foot flat down ensured max engine output while the Variomatic adjusted ratios as speed increased.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - bathtub tom
That sounds a bit like the DAF (car) 'Variomatic' CVT, where each rear wheel had its own drive!.

04-6-1024x998.jpg

They made excellent trials cars as they had no diff, but relied on belt slip. You'd often see a rear tyre 'skipping' as they went round a tight corner.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - Michigancentral

I think this is down to the incorrect setting of the governor on the (probable) Gardner 6LW engines.

Where I grew up in Rochdale we had Gardner engined AEC Regents ad Damler CVG6s and they all exhibited this 'hunting' at idle. AEC engined buses did not show this characteristic, nor the Leylands and Gardner engined buses of nearby operators.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - Steveieb

There were no Bristol buses in the Potteries where I grew up and the Daimlers fitted with Gardner engines regularly failed to get up a steep hill on the way to school and we all had to get off and walk up the hill.

No such problem for the horizontally opposed Commer two stroke engines which had masses of power and a lovely thrum similar to a Subaru. Definitely my favourite !

bristol lodekka - engine idle - galileo

There were no Bristol buses in the Potteries where I grew up and the Daimlers fitted with Gardner engines regularly failed to get up a steep hill on the way to school and we all had to get off and walk up the hill.

No such problem for the horizontally opposed Commer two stroke engines which had masses of power and a lovely thrum similar to a Subaru. Definitely my favourite !

Daimler buses all had pre-selector gearboxes, AFAIK, can anyone confirm this?

bristol lodekka - engine idle - Sofa Spud

Most Bristol Lodekkas - there were various types - had Gardner 5 or 6 cylinder engines.

A minority were fitted with Bristol's own 6 cylinder diesel engine or Leyland 0.600. Whether these were prone to 'hunting' on tickover I have no idea.

bristol lodekka - engine idle - FiestaOwner

There were no Bristol buses in the Potteries where I grew up and the Daimlers fitted with Gardner engines regularly failed to get up a steep hill on the way to school and we all had to get off and walk up the hill.

No such problem for the horizontally opposed Commer two stroke engines which had masses of power and a lovely thrum similar to a Subaru. Definitely my favourite !

Daimler buses all had pre-selector gearboxes, AFAIK, can anyone confirm this?

Not correct I'm afraid. At least some of the Daimler Fleetlines had Semi-Automatic gearboxes (not the same as pre-select).

There is a description (and photo) of the Electro-Pneumatic Semi-Automatic Gear Selector in this link: www.flickr.com/photos/62826100@N06/9062014900