I\'m sure this has already been discussed, but I can\'t find it now, so apologies in advance.
I\'ve just taken delivery of a new Zafira and am not overly impressed with the air-con.
At its coldest, on recirculate, although significantly colder than outside, it just doesn\'t seem cold enough. In other cars I have driven, it\'s practicaly unbearable on the coldest setting.
How cold should the air be entering the cabin?
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Don't know how cold but mine seems to take quite a while to get into it's stride. It never gets unbearably cold, but then why would I want to do that? It also works much better on some vent settings than others so maybe you need to play around a bit, after all it is a new toy.
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You really need to go for a run to let air get through. My freinds air-con on his mondeo is really quite unbearable when on its coldest setting but my Mercs climate does not seem to get as cold but overall works a lot better.
As hxj said, just play around with it for a while.
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It may be that it was never properly gassed at the factory - I think there was a story that they only half-fill them to save money.
Anyway, I run two Nissans and an MB. The Nissans have v. good air-con (Calsonic) and will freeze your fingers 10mins after jumping in the car on a hot day. The MB's not bad, but not as powerful as the Nissans.
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The factory spec goes as follows:-
Engine revs 1500, fan speed high, recirc air, after 15 mins centre vent temp should be between 5-8 deg C.
You should find this will be achieved easily. Just don't forget, the ultimate vent temp is set by the system controls, not necesarily by how good the system is. Also, with weather like today ie. high sun load and high humidity, there is a massive heat load, so even with fan speed high, and vent temps of 5-8, it will still take quite a while to get the cabin temp down. Just turn it off briefly and see how quickly the cabin temp rises, and that will give you a pretty good idea of the amount of work it's having to do.
You will also find that cars with a lot of glass area will suffer quite a high temp variation in the cabin. That's why larger vehicles really need seperate front and rear air. I'm not talking about ducting from the front to the rear, but a seperate evaporator and blower for the rear.
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LIving and working in the UAE gives us a good understanding of car a/c sysytems and their efficiency. In general a number of people comment that Japanese cars such as Toyota's have very good systems. Mercs have better systems but in the past the systems could not handle the requirements of the scorching desert climate.
My car is a BMW 318i, when for example it's say 40-45c oustside and the car is sitting in the sun, getting in one is overwhelmed by the heat. We generally turn the a/c on to its coldest setting. Since the car has a full digital climate control system we can see the car cooling down, but it does take 15-20 mins on its coldest setting at the highest fan speed. When the car is in a underground car park the car cools down much quicker.
The 5 series BMW has a superior system but then as my dealer pointed it has a larger compressor. For the middle east cars need to have vents in the rear to cool adequately. Incidently a/c systems seem to operate more efficiently when it is more humid outside and at night without the bright sunlight.
I seem to remeber that when the vauxhall vectra and omega were first introduced GM in Austrailia had to upgarde the system to cope with Austrailian heat.
As a general point you have to remeber that when a car is sitting in the sun all the cars fittings and pipes will be hot, so even before the collor air reaches the vents it is being warmed. So the a/c has to work harder to cool down the car. I would suggest that your car a has generally been designed with a low capacity system i.e size of compressor etc but also may have a fault such as leaking reffridgerant so get it checked out.
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I seem to remeber that when the vauxhall vectra and omega were first introduced GM in Austrailia had to upgarde the system to cope with Austrailian heat.
I dont every remember the Omega being sold in Oz...they already had a locally designed and manufactured car the Commodore.
The Vectra was imported after many modifications for the Oz market and after about 1 year they assembled the saloon and wagon in a local factory with just the hatch being imported. But the AC was a standard item fitted across the range of Barina, Astra and Vectra, it cost A$1870 whatever the car (1996/7). Didnt work to well in any of them but did make 48C in the shade rather more bearable!
Ian L.
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Thanks for all your comments.
I had been adjusting the settings as suggested, and my comments are based on the system's effectiveness after running for over an hour.
DaveN - I shall see what temperature I'm getting after 15 mins on full fan and recirculate.
kal, interestingly this car replaces a 318i touring and it's in direct comparison to the Beema that I think the zafira's struggling (not only in the air conditioning department, but let's keep to the point). Mind you the zafira does have much more air in the cabin to cool, has substantially more glass and the full compliment of SWMBO plus 3 kiddies were on-board, so perhaps it's no surprise it's not akin to an igloo (which is how I like it) !
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Apologies for not having time to reply to your qu properly Hairy Hat Man.
Nothing to worry about, quite simply the aircon system Vauxhall uses is a waste of time. My Vectra (similar system to yours) has been rebuilt three times. On the last go, which included recall work I said I thought the efficiency of the aircon would improve. I was told not - they're just not very powerful compressors. Friend of mine's Vectra is just the same - you're pushed at times to tell the damn things on!
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quite simply the aircon system Vauxhall uses is a waste of time. My Vectra (similar system to yours) has been rebuilt three times..... you're pushed at times to tell the damn things on!
What age is your Vectra Dan J? Mine is Nov 2000, air con works fine, and has never had a top up of refridgerant or any other maintenance come to that.
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Not sure about all this talk of different size compresors in GM vehicles for different markets. GM only make and use 1 type of compressor worldwide, that's exactly the same inside.
The limiting factor isn't the compressor output, but the size and ability of the evaporator to remove heat from the cabin, and the condensor to transfer the heat from the refrigerant to the outside world.
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In the UAE (Abu Dhabi) no body complains about a/c systems in Mercs, BMW, Lexus, Toyota and Nissan. Some people say Honda systems not as good as Toyota\'s.
My friends BMW 1998 model 328 i last week in Dubai with extra heat absorbing black leather upholstery. Outside temp at least 40c if not 42/43c. In any event it was very hot. Got in the car screamed pink fluffy dice! turn on A/c to full blast and after 20 mins the car felt reasonably cool. In fact the digital cc was slowing the fan speed down by 30% ie a couple of notches.
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I worked in Abu Dhabi in the summer of 1982 and can vouch for the fact that the a/c on the Toyota Landcrusiers we used more than coped with the heat. Bear in mind we were surveying in the desert oil fields all day with zero shade and the a/c had no problem cooling down the cars. IIRC the Nissan Patrol we also used was fine too but I've no idea if these were supplied with 'beefier' a/c units than those fitted in the UK.
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What this also tels you is the fact that cars are not tested properly for different climates and geographies contrary to the hype from the sales/marketing dept ie these cars are under - engineered plain and simple and that car co's try and get away with using small cheap systems.
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My Passat (V reg)110 TDI has climate control, takes time getting it down when parked in the sun (France) but once a comftable temp attained it is quite efficient at maintaining it. Can take up to 30 mins in temps of 30C
Blade
PS Any body reccommend a small supermini type car with AC?
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just a quick note,, a vehicle air con circuit working properly will make anywhere between 15 to 22 degrees difference to the ambient temp. So dont think that at 82 degrees you will be able to get ice forming on your hands.
At a ambinet temp of 82, and you get into car at 62, it feels icey cold.
Also "topping up" a air con system is NOT a option. The pump MUST NOT compress a fluid. If the system is topped up the gas will turn to liquid at the wrong point and destroy the pump.
The gas must be removed completely and the new gas weighed into the system, any where between 700grammes to 1 kilo.
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Reply to Sarg3
Agree with topping up - refrigerant life tends to vary from car to car depending on the system.
Averages about 4 years in most cars before decrease in efficiency is noticed - I'm not sure why car refridgeration loses gas, domestic fridges run forever without losing refridgerant - someone out there have any ideas?
Mal
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Malcolm
Fridges use diaphragm compressors and the systems are fully soldered and use crimped and soldered ends. There are no seals used. They really are closed systems. It's possible to do this because the fridge system can be fitted in one piece from the back of the fridge.
However car systems are more difficult to plumb in. I suppose a fully sealed system would be possible, but I imagine it would be more tricky and expensive to fit. Therefore they tend to rely on using some joints which have 'conventional' neoprene etc seals. Though effective, they will have minute losses over time.
FWIW I have both a Vauxhall (18months old) and a BMW. I have the same impression of the two as HHM. The BMW system seems to be much more powerful; it certainly seems to cool the car more effectively. Combined with the fact it's thermostatically controlled it's a superior system.
Regards
John S
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Response to Blade.
Wife has Toyota Yaris 1.3CDX Auto with standard Aircon.
It is the dogs pink fluffy dice.
I love driving it around town, it is like a go cart and sticks to the road like a leech. I much prefer it to my Merc for town traffic (not least mpg!). Anyways the real bonus is the aircon is first class.
Downsides - small boot, a bit noisy.
Summary: Lovable and competent (for the town!)
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Hi Blade of course a big such as yours should have rear vents which help in cooling car down quicker.
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So, I mentioned the perceived problem when the 'van', as I call it, went in for a few minor fixes at 6 months old.
'Nothing wrong with the air-con' they said
'On what basis do you come to that conclusion' I say
'It's blowing cold air' they say
'It's -2 degrees outside' I say 'of course it's blowing cold air'
At yearly service (and 24 degress outside) I mention the air-con again. They re-gas it and now it's lovely and cold, just how it should have been a year ago.
I suspect (as I've read elsewhere) that it was under gassed from the factory.
p.s. Do I win a prize for updating a thread over a year since I posted it?
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