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Touchscreen Controls - joegrundy

This subject crops up regularly.

This news story from Germany caught my eye - driver fined for using touchscreen to control wipers on a Tesla.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53666222

Touchscreen Controls - badbusdriver

Our Honda Jazz had a setup where instead of manually varying the intermittent setting, you adjusted the sensitivity of the sensor. In my experience it never seemed to be quite right, either too frequently wiping the screen or two infrequently. But, at least this was done easily on the stalk rather than hunting through sub-menu's.

But it is good to see this happening, after all these huge touchscreens are very distracting, at least as much as using a phone while driving.

Touchscreen Controls - Sulphur Man

Auto wipers are very fallible, as is any serious attempt to automatically control the impact of weather. Even the ones on expensive tech-laden cars are over-zealous, but get away with it by doing so silently, and expensively.

Touchscreens in cars have already gone too far, for cost-saving purposes, but also for 'personalising' cars to their owners, and locking them into a familiar eco system of services and add-ons, much like smartphones and tablets do.

I admire Honda for openly saying that heating controls, electric seat controls, windows and all the things that have always have dedicated controls will remain so in their cars.

Do the latest passenger jets have touchscreens or do they still have huge amounts of manual controls? Exactly,

Edited by Sulphur Man on 05/08/2020 at 16:19

Touchscreen Controls - Zippy123

Love touch screens on the phone. NOT IN THE CAR!!!

(Sorry for shouting!)

Touchscreen Controls - Andrew-T

Love touch screens on the phone. NOT IN THE CAR!!!

Time was when regulations prohibited screens within driver's view .... only passengers permitted to watch moving pictures, for obvious reasons.

Touchscreen Controls - Brit_in_Germany

Do the latest passenger jets have touchscreens or do they still have huge amounts of manual controls? Exactly,

A bit too manual is some cases.

Touchscreen Controls - _

The Sportage has manual controls for aircon and touchscreen and manual controls for radio plus the finger controls on the steering wheel for radio, cruise control and the system checks.

plenty enough for me!

Touchscreen Controls - Middleman

I've mentioned this once or twice before but I cannot help but repeat it - anybody designing a motor vehicle with a multi-layer, multi menu touch screen which is available for the driver to faff about with whilst driving needs to be prosecuted. And frankly those providing type-approval for such vehicles - especially when essential controls such as wipers are controlled in that way - need to have their licences to approve vehicles revoked.

Touchscreen Controls - Avant

Absolutely agree with comments above, and thank you for putting the link up, Joe.

The operative point surely is "The local court in Karlsruhe said the driver veered out of his lane while distracted with the console, driving into an embankment and some trees."

The driver was lucky: if he'd happened to veer the other way he could have killed himself and others. And it's no good for the likes of Volvo to say it cam all be done by voice commands. You have to find exactly the right words, or the stupid software says it doesn't understand.

I'm not against touchscreens per se: they can be useful when making entries (e.g. for satnav) when you're stationary. But not for adjustments that you might want to make when on the move.

Touchscreen Controls - catsdad

Among several irritants on the Golf is headlight adjustment being on a touchscreen sub menu. All my previous cars had a conventional adjuster that could be used instantly for load changes or to fine tune the lights for varying conditions during the journey.

To cancel an unwanted traffic announcement requires you to press a virtual button mid screen about a quarter of an inch by an inch.

The manual controls aren’t all great either. The heated mirrors don’t come on with the dashboard rear screen heater switch. Instead they require a rotation on the mirror joystick control on the door panel. And the cruise control is the most complex set up I have ever had for this feature. I have more or less given up using it.

The most button heavy conventional controls I had were on a Saab 9-5. There were literally dozens of them but within a few minutes they were second nature. Probably a by-product if their largely mythical aero heritage. Must have cost a lot to produce though!



Touchscreen Controls - barney100

I had a Volvo XC90 on loan while my V70 was in the body shop for a couple of months waiting for parts. The touch screen was pretty fiddly and I didn't want to use it on the move. My car has a screen but it is controlled with manual controls but even this takes your eyes off the road if you fiddle. I think any screen in a car has the potential to steal your driving concentration.

Touchscreen Controls - elekie&a/c doctor
On my 17 year old Focus , I reckon I could switch on/off , adjust everything while blindfolded. Try this on a modern car . No chance .
Touchscreen Controls - John F

The precise nature of the charge is not mentioned in the report. I very much doubt if the driver was ....." fined for using touchscreen to control wipers ......"

I suspect he was fined for driving without due care and attention which covers any accident contributed to by removing hands from the steering wheel and eyes from the road whether it's changing a cassette, unwrapping a sweet or blowing your nose.

Touchscreen Controls - joegrundy

The report is that he was fined under specific legislation relating to use of phones and touchscreens.

This is a link to the original report: blog.burhoff.de/2020/07/57937/

I think it makes it pretty clear it is verboten under section 23.

Touchscreen Controls - Brit_in_Germany

Here is a machine translation of the relevant part of section 23 StVO:

1a. Any person driving a vehicle may use an electronic device intended or intended to be used for communication, information or organisation purposes only if

1. for this purpose the device is neither picked up nor held, and

2. either

a) only one voice control and read aloud function is used or

b) for the operation and use of the device, only a brief glance towards the device, adapted to the road, traffic, visibility and weather conditions, and at the same time turning your gaze away from the traffic, is necessary.

Devices within the meaning of sentence 1 are also consumer electronics devices or devices for determining location, in particular mobile telephones or car telephones, touch screens, portable flat computers, navigation devices, televisions or players with video function or audio recorders. If the device within the meaning of sentence 1, also in conjunction with sentence 2, is a visual output device worn on the head, in particular video glasses, it may not be used. If the device within the meaning of sentence 1, also in conjunction with sentence 2, has a field of view projection, this may be used for vehicle-related, traffic sign related, trip-related or trip accompanying information.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Touchscreen Controls - joegrundy

Thanks for the translation - my previous comment was a bit tongue in cheek.

As far as I can see, the driver argued that he shouldn't be convicted because the screen was a built-in, integral, part of the car and he had to use it to control essentials. Both courts ruled against him, saying that the law applied to those too.

Maybe raises an issue for manufacturers.

Touchscreen Controls - John F

This is a link to the original report: blog.burhoff.de/2020/07/57937/

I think it makes it pretty clear it is verboten under section 23.

Thanks - interesting link. Actually, Sect 23 makes it pretty clear that you can use a touchscreen. The key phrase is in the paragragh which qualifies its use. You can only use it if only a brief glance is necessary, rather than a prolonged tapping session while driving off the road into something, which is apparently what happened in this case.

Touchscreen Controls - Miniman777

I too test drove a Volvo (XC40) when looking for a new car, also tried a Pug 3008.

Both have many 'basic' controls managed via touch screen, like ventilation, seat heating etc, and I found their use fiddly and very distracting. Nothing like instinctively reaching out for the knob and turning it while eyes are on the road. The XC40 had voice control, but you need to remember . As a result, not both deleted from my list. In my view, it's not a benefit, not conducive to road safely. I find BMWs iDrive less distracting but you still need to look at the centre screen to check the selection.

(Couldnt get on with the smaller steering wheel in the 3008 either....)

Touchscreen Controls - FoxyJukebox

Totally ridiculous to even think of allowing drivers to make any kind of touchscreen adjustments when on the move. I also try to avoid changing radio stations/adjusting volume etc. Anything that takes your eyes off the road is bad news. Not looking ahead and being distracted is asking for trouble.

Touchscreen Controls - Middleman

As far as I can see, the driver argued that he shouldn't be convicted because the screen was a built-in, integral, part of the car and he had to use it to control essentials. Both courts ruled against him, saying that the law applied to those too.

As well it should. The fact that somebody is dopey enough to design a car with such a facility and that somebody else is dopey enough to buy it should not be a reason to suggest that an exemption to the law should apply.

Maybe raises an issue for manufacturers.

One can only hope. But it will only raise issues with the manufacturers if enough people decline to buy their products and they make it known why. Unfortunately that's not likely to happen because the more gizmos many drivers have to faff about with whilst they are driving the better many of them view the product. The answer lies with tightening the type-approval rules to forbid the approval of cars with such devices. It's bad enough drivers introducing stuff into their cars which distracts from their driving. But for manufacturers to fit such stuff as standard beggars belief.

Touchscreen Controls - Andrew-T

<< ... the more gizmos many drivers have to faff about with whilst they are driving the better many of them view the product. >>

I'm not sure that is the reason - I reckon quite a few drivers like to be seen with the latest model, which means one with more gizmos because that is the only 'advance' makers can come up with. Some of the gizmos are little more than vanity projects invented by designer nerds to see what more can be done with software.

Touchscreen Controls - Middleman

Yes there's certainly an element of that. It really needs legislators to get to grips with the problem because if it's reached the point where windscreen wipers are controlled via a touchscreen menu then matters have got ridiculously out of hand.

Touchscreen Controls - Engineer Andy

Indeed - how any normal function, such as adjusting the A/C or vent controls using touchscreens only can get by the authorities is beyond me - they should be illegal.

Touchscreen Controls - Smileyman

3 years ago I rejected the Peugeot 308 because of the need to use a touchscreen for the heating. It was not just the need to select the mode first, it was the distraction caused by need to look at the screen to see the location of the buttons, as well as concerns about being able to see the display in very bright sunlight. Much prefer buttons and dials, once learnt where they are they can be activated without taking eyes off the road.

Touchscreen Controls - misar

I have the current Mazda 3 from which Mazda removed the touchscreen for the reasons discussed here. Mostly it all works safely especially with the good switch layout on the steering wheel. However, I still find it impossible to select a specific radio station or audio source without looking at the screen. I tried voice control but gave up. Even a main BBC station is frequently recognised as some obscure track I had forgotten I owned.

Touchscreen Controls - Sofa Spud

I've not used a car touchscreen yet. We've all got used to them for other things - phones, tablets etc.

I think I'd be happy with touchscreen controls if they A) are reliable and B) clear and logical. Things like indicators, lights and horn should still have their own separate controls - but maybe in the future even those could be illuminated touch buttons either side of the steering wheel.

Touchscreen Controls - mcb100

I have the current Mazda 3 from which Mazda removed the touchscreen for the reasons discussed here. Mostly it all works safely especially with the good switch layout on the steering wheel. However, I still find it impossible to select a specific radio station or audio source without looking at the screen. I tried voice control but gave up. Even a main BBC station is frequently recognised as some obscure track I had forgotten I owned.

The previous Mazda3 had a touch screen that only worked at speeds of up to about 5mph, above that and you had to use the rotary controller. On the current car they’ve done away with the touch screen altogether as it’s further away from the driver, and research showed that reaching for it usually resulted in the driver inadvertently steering to the left.
Touchscreen Controls - Big John

The new 2020 Octavia now has a touch screen for most functions inc heating and ventilation controls . I also think the new model Golf is the same as well. Not really for me and certainly not for mrs BJ who is a fully paid up member of the Luddite society.

Touchscreen Controls - Middleman

On the current car they’ve done away with the touch screen altogether as it’s further away from the driver, and research showed that reaching for it usually resulted in the driver inadvertently steering to the left.

I wonder how many members of the National Institute for the Bleeding Obvious it took to reach that conclusion.