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Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - drjaking

Is there any information about what will happen to the London ULEZ after the big expansion next year? To put it in more personal terms, if I buy a Euro6 diesel a few years old (ie not RDE2), am I likely to get shafted by some further restrictions?

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - daveyjp

Who knows? If you need a diesel and it fits your typical journey you need to bite the bullet. If not a hybrid may be a less risky choice.

The area I live is within a new Clean Air Zone which will be implemented next year. Within 3 miles of home I am in a neighbouring authority which will also have a CAZ in the next couple of years.

At the moment private vehicles are exempt from charges, but this could change, but I can't live life on what may happen. I have a vehicle which suits my needs.

Edited by daveyjp on 24/07/2020 at 09:53

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - drjaking

"Who knows?"

I was hoping someone might!

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - Bromptonaut

"Who knows?"

I was hoping someone might!

Unless there's already something in the public domain about the London ULEZ, or any other proposed clean air zone, and Euro 6 diesels then we don't know.

There may however be some straws in the wind as RDE2 vehicles seem to be treated more favourably for tax. There is also quite a bit of evidence, well beyond anecdotal, the Euro 6 is not all it's cracked up to be for NOx reduction. NOx, a local pollutant affecting those in the immediate vicinity of where it is emitted, is currently in the frame in various localities in respect of child health and outcomes for people with Covid.

If the status quo is not solving the problem further tightening is likely.

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - Engineer Andy

Given that Citizen Khan is going to be on the hunt for cash to splurge up to election next year, he'll want to soak Londoners as much as possible on the Congestion Charge / ULEZ to make up the difference of what extra government money will be coming plus the shortfall from less TfL ticket receipts.

I would say agree that things will be ramped up and widened, and I wouldn't put it past him (and elsewhere) to even go after EVs as well as ICE vehicle owners, including introducing charges for residential and workplace parking spaces (per space).

I do find it ironic that they are encouraging people to drive rather than use public transport at the moment (walking / cycling to work isn't an option for most people, even when the roads are far less busy [too far / time consuming]).

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - FP

Are you saying fines from ULEZ go into some fund that Khan and no-one else can access and it is used for his election campaign?

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - Terry W

Congestion charging, low emission zones etc are only moving in one direction. Diesels are probably at the top of the "hate" list.

Euro 6 started 5 years ago in 2015. So although you may be OK now, how long do you plan to keep the car. I also expect that many other large urban areas will introduce controls - not just London.

So if you need to drive in large cities or are planning to keep the car for more than a couple of years petrol may be the best option unless:

- you can afford a hybrid or full electric

- drive more than 20000 miles pa where fuel costs may be an issue

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - _

Are you saying fines from ULEZ go into some fund that Khan and no-one else can access and it is used for his election campaign?

Congestion Charge/ULEZ fines got to TFL less what capita make out of it, I believe about 25%.

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - Bromptonaut

Are you saying fines from ULEZ go into some fund that Khan and no-one else can access and it is used for his election campaign?

There's a well documented trail that shows the early return of ULEZ/Congestion Charge and it's expansion as a revenue source was imposed by Central Government as part of the deal to keep TfL afloat after Covid ate the fare box income.

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - Engineer Andy

Are you saying fines from ULEZ go into some fund that Khan and no-one else can access and it is used for his election campaign?

No - but he IS mayor, so he can use the funds as he sees fit, and he knows that most people who drive into London would unlikely be voting for him anyway.

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - Bromptonaut

Are you saying fines from ULEZ go into some fund that Khan and no-one else can access and it is used for his election campaign?

No - but he IS mayor, so he can use the funds as he sees fit, and he knows that most people who drive into London would unlikely be voting for him anyway.

The ULEZ and CC are tied to TfL and not for Mayors of any/either persuasion to spend as they see fit. Recent changes are to backfill for loss of fare income on buses and Under/Overground.

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - FP

That is the clarification I was hoping for.

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - daveyjp

Mayors cannot use income as they see fit.

Regardless don't expect charges going away as TFL now need another £3bn+ to cover ever increasing operational losses.

I see the operators of the various Congestion Zone systems, Capita, have been looked after by being offered very large Government contracts during lockdown.

Future of ULEZ, are Euro6 diesels safe? - Engineer Andy

Are you saying fines from ULEZ go into some fund that Khan and no-one else can access and it is used for his election campaign?

No - but he IS mayor, so he can use the funds as he sees fit, and he knows that most people who drive into London would unlikely be voting for him anyway.

The ULEZ and CC are tied to TfL and not for Mayors of any/either persuasion to spend as they see fit. Recent changes are to backfill for loss of fare income on buses and Under/Overground.

He can surely say how the money is spent on TfL - after all, he did freeze fares for a while, so he does have significant latitude on what they do. My point was that it doesn't go into government coffers, but those he (or any other candidate would) controls as mayor.

It just means then if he gets enough to run TfL, he then has money to spend in other areas of policy, which is what any incumbent would want in an election year.

Anyway - I think the COVID impact will mean more cities trying to rake in funds from anywhere they see fit (whether worthy or not) so their funding can keep flowing. Unfortunately for them, soaking everyone for cash will likely encourage people to move away or work outside of these areas, making the problem worse, especially of a vaccine is either not forthcoming, is not as effective as touted / has significant short and especially long term side effects.

Living/working in more rural areas or smaller towns will be far more lucrative as they've been shown to be far less susceptible to the issues surrounding COVID and are more amenable to use of private transport or walking/cycling to work, as housing is more affordable than in nearby cities.

I think there will inevitably be 'mission creep' as regards ULEZs, much more so than originally envisaged. The daft thing is that all it will do is ruin cities.