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General - Reliability index - tbg

I keep looking at reliability survey's on cars on various sites many of which contradict eachother. does anyone know much about reliabilityindex.com

General - Reliability index - gordonbennet

That's part of Warranty Direct, so applies to vehicles warranted with them.

Just looked at Toyota Landcruiser on their site, rated as poor, which tells me all i need to know.

You could do far worse than use HJ's reviews on this very site, the good and bad sections in particular to get a feel for likely reliability.

So much depends on the use and the care and preventative maintenance a vehicle has received in its life, and with a used car you can only go by what you see in front of you and what you can learn from the car's history in terms of servicing and number of owners.

Reliable vehicles still need good maintenance or they will be worse than an unreliable vehicle that has been well cared for and maintained meticulously.

Those 1.6 HDi engines generally only suffered due to poor maintenance or if the injector seals failed, but lack of care is rife with new car owners, especially those who will shift them on when warranty expires, this all makes used buying more of a careful selection process than many can be bothered with, lack of due diligence in research and inspection is the best way to end up with a lemon.

General - Reliability index - SLO76
Best way to judge is to look around you on the road and see how many old versions of that car or earlier versions are still on the road plus look at the taxi trade and what they favour. There’s good reason why they typically avoid recent French and Italian cars. I find the taxi trade offer a wealth of info on car reliability, no one tests a car like they do. In our area they currently favour Toyota’s after more modern VAG products became less reliable. They rarely use Ford’s or Vauxhall’s and those who’ve tried typically tell of plenty of woe.

Edited by SLO76 on 03/02/2020 at 14:21

General - Reliability index - nellyjak

As an out and out Toyota fan, that doesn't surprise me at all..over the last several years we have bought nothing BUT Toyotas'..and now for the first time in many years we have bought a brand new one..a Yaris Y20.

All I can say is during those years, visits to the garage (and the associated costs) have reduced significantly...so little has ever gone awry.

They don't/can't suite everyone of course...but reliability has been our No.1 goal...and thus far, Toyota has given us no reason to consider any other marque.

General - Reliability index - SLO76
“ They don't/can't suite everyone of course...but reliability has been our No.1 goal...and thus far, Toyota has given us no reason to consider any other marque.”

I agree and currently I run a decade old Avensis Estate with 86,000 miles up which runs without fault and is pretty much spotless outside - family life and a messy wife mean the interior is less so. I get great pleasure from beating the system and running a car on buttons, it drives and looks no different than a three year old example that would’ve cost many times more. In order to do so though I need people to keep buying reliable, sensible cars like this new so please carry on buying Toyota’s, Honda’s and Mazda’s. I find it hard to justify spending so much when they drive and look almost as new a decade later if looked after.

Edited by SLO76 on 04/02/2020 at 10:30

General - Reliability index - Engineer Andy

Bear in mind that people do not just use such surveys evenly, i.e. a wide and representative cross-section of the public. That's why I take such surveys, especially when they are from firms that provide after-market warranties for second-hand cars, with a big pinch of salt.

As SLO says, funny how certain makes from certain parts of the world and certain models of car seem to to make up the vast majority of older cars, often despite them being sold in vastly smaller numbers than Euro brands. What reputable minicab drivers like is indeed a good guide, given how much mileage they do (including in areas not affected by low emissions zones).

Cars also following the KISS principle also tend to hang around for longer, as long as they have decent rust-proofing.

General - Reliability index - Leif

The problem with surveys is that the results depend on the question asked (do they only consider cars between 2 and 4 years old for example) and partly that the survey selects a particular group of people eg readers of What Car, or people with Direct Line.

One good example is electrics. Posh cars with lots of electrics may well score lower, nit because the cars are worse, but because they have more items that can fail. So your bargain basement car might appear more reliable.

A good example of the daftness of surveys appeared a few years ago. It might have been What Car. They scored the Skoda Citigo or Seat Mii much higher than the VW Up, but they are essentially the same cars, made in the same factory, with small cosmetic differences.

Most new cars will have faults. However some cars are better made than others, for example better underbody rustproofing, so although they may perhaps have more faults for the first three years under warranty, over ten years they might end up far better. I was impressed by my VW Up (which does have known gearbox issues) compared to my previous Ford so I stuck with VAG.

General - Reliability index - drd63
So your bargain basement car doesn’t just appear more reliable because it hasn’t failed, it is more reliable. You pay a premium for cars with more features, they should work. New cars shouldn’t have faults, our last 4 new cars, Toyota Aygo, DS5, Fiat 124, Ford Mustang have all been faultless, no recalls, no breakdown, nothing outside regular servicing.
General - Reliability index - Terry W

Better to concentrate on surveys which tend to reflect personal use of cars and how they are acquired - these are more likely to be relevant. Honesty rather than self-delusion is important - if cost is more important than gizmos, don't spend too much time on the standard kit and options list.

Also differentiate between serious faults which stop the car performing, compared to the trivial or annoying which need fixing but are often the consequence of non-essential complexity.

  • Do a high mileage with quite a lot of in town use - ask the taxi drivers
  • Tow a caravan or boat - look at caravan and boating mags for owner reviews
  • Value reliability over image or performance - look at surveys and reports for cars at 5 or 7 years old
  • Want a good performance car - road tests and magazines/fora - acceleration, handling etc is more important than long term reliability
  • Buying on a 3 year lease - why would you care about years 4+
  • Expect to keep it 10+ years - dealer back up and spare parts more critical.

General - Reliability index - madf

We run cars for 15 plus years:

BL Mini estate: rust, subframes, water pump, suspension, rust, indicator stalks failed . Sold at 15 years. Lots of exhausta

Peugeot 16 D: HG went at 13 years. Top hoses, bulbs, rusts in rear. Scrapped at 16 years.

17 year old Yaris D4D: still going strong. Lots of antiroll bar bushes. New window winder mechanism, heater reisistor. Original Exhaust . No rust. - but Dinitrol regualrly)

8 year old Jazz: err consumables only.

General - Reliability index - Leif
So your bargain basement car doesn’t just appear more reliable because it hasn’t failed, it is more reliable. You pay a premium for cars with more features, they should work. New cars shouldn’t have faults, our last 4 new cars, Toyota Aygo, DS5, Fiat 124, Ford Mustang have all been faultless, no recalls, no breakdown, nothing outside regular servicing.

Yes and no. If you are happy with poverty spec. then yes on average your bargain basement car could be more reliable than the posh one. But if you compare cars with equivalent spec, the survey will mislead.

General - Reliability index - thunderbird

Some of these "reliability" are actually "customer satisfaction" surveys when you look closely at them. I believe that is why Skoda tends to get better marks than Seat, VW and Audi (normally in that order" simply because the owners possibly have a different (lower) expectation since they have bought what they perceive to be a budget brand.

Another consideration should be the size of the sample group. I remember a survey in about 2010 which was won outright by the Kia Sportage (think it was actually the old model) and it got a 100% rating. A closer look and there was in truth only one owner responded to that particular car and he (or she) was obviously delighted but it did not mean that car was in any way a winner (the Sportage only became popular with the new model in about 2011).

Look at some of the questions asked. One I remember was "are you happy with the colour?". What on earth had that got to do with reliability or even satisfaction. Only a blind person could fail to spot the car they bought looked hideous and even if it did they could hardly blame the manufacturer.

Take our experience since the mid 90's. Golf TDi from 1996 to 2005. Only issues we had was a vacuum pipe that crimped over and made the turbo work intermittently (fixed FOC next day under warranty) and a faulty brake sensor that illuminated the glow plug light every 12 months. Fixed FOC under warranty and goodwill 4 times before it finally fell off and was replaced (think it was about £50). Replaced by a late 2005 Focus 1.6 TDCi which we had until 2018. Only part that was replaced other than the expected was the alternator belt which was cracking. In 1998 we bought a then new model Mk 1 Focus 1.8 petrol. Cracking car, no issues at all. That was replaced 10 years later by a Mk 2 Focus 1.8 petrol which we kept until late last year, again no problems.

None of those cars do well in any survey yet ours have been unthinkably good (even the much criticised 1.6 TDCi). But all have been serviced correctly by either a main dealer or specialist (lucky to have VAG and Ford indies close by) which IMHO proves that most of the unreliable cars that people buy on here have either been neglected or abused.

General - Reliability index - badbusdriver

Some of these "reliability" are actually "customer satisfaction" surveys when you look closely at them. I believe that is why Skoda tends to get better marks than Seat, VW and Audi (normally in that order" simply because the owners possibly have a different (lower) expectation since they have bought what they perceive to be a budget brand.

I have long suspected this to be the case, but in addition, i also feel that how well any problems which crop up are dealt with are a major factor in the discrepancies between (for example) VW and Skoda results.

Hypothetically, a VW Up and a Skoda Citygo both suffer the same issue, but the Skoda owner is dealt with attentively and courteously, whereas the VW owner is made to feel like the dealer couldn't care less (though in both cases, the car does get fixed). The Skoda owner is undoubtably going to rate the car and the ownership experience higher, even though both have had the same fault.

General - Reliability index - Engineer Andy

It's often people's expectations of a car and especially a brand/after-sales customer service that dictates how they respond in a survey. Of course, as quite a few people still stick to one brand or have realtively few cars over the years and don't read up on others' experiences means that they don't really have an objective view that can be easily compared to others.

If you don't expect much, but get a better service, you'll likely to give a good review. On the other hand, if you expect a lot (especially from buying an expensive and/or performance car), then you probably do, and are more likely to be disappointed. Yet both may have ended up with a similar actual experience, but the scores will be vastly different.

General - Reliability index - drd63

I'm easily impressed then and just happy when the dealer cleans my car when it's in for a service. Is it just me or do people spend too much time cleaning cars, surely scraping all that dirt off on a weekly basis can't do it any good;)

General - Reliability index - gordonbennet

I'm easily impressed then and just happy when the dealer cleans my car when it's in for a service. Is it just me or do people spend too much time cleaning cars, surely scraping all that dirt off on a weekly basis can't do it any good;)

Funny you should say that, i make a point of dropping my own cars, and the lorry i drive, off for service/inspection/mot clean as possible.

It's simple courtesy and showing respect for the mechanic who's going to be working on it...here mate somewhere under the lorry fifth wheel (turntable) there's an air leak, it's ok there's only 15lbs of filth and grease accumulated over the air valves under there, don't mind do you... that's what some people expect and their car equivalents and they wonder why they might get disinterested work from the mechanic, courtesy shown gets returned in most cases.

Forester was in for MOT yesterday, as i waited in the car park for SWMBO to come out there were two vehicles in eyeshot, one being MOT'd with filth so thick on it you couldn't tell what colour the car was, the other in for tyres with wheels caked in probably a years worth of salt, a mechanic isn't some form of lower life form who deserves to work in filth.

General - Reliability index - drd63

But if I take it in clean and the dealer doesn't have to clean it will I get a discount on the service? There is a semi serious point here, I used to race enduro motorbikes and while I maintained them pretty well mechanically I wasn't unduly concerned about the cosmetics, my bikes (for Husqvarna's) tended to be pretty reliable. It was the guys who fastidiously stripped and cleaned theirs who seemed to have the problems. Maybe a question of balance then so more than the annual wash and polish perhaps?

General - Reliability index - groaver

But if I take it in clean and the dealer doesn't have to clean it will I get a discount on the service?

I take it that this was tongue in cheek?

The key word here is service.

General - Reliability index - targen

We frequently have cars in which are clearly owned by ignorant T@*ts.... examples being...a recent spate of recalls where the seat belt buckles needed replacing...all owners were asked to bring in their cars as clean inside as possible , but several arrived with food/drinks cans/ dirty nappies/unmentionable items swilling about on the floor , where the techinician had to go to reach the buckle... one Motability car came in , our driver collected it from 10 miles away , he had to drive with all the windows open because the dog poo on the back seat smelt so bad. Another Motab car (£25k s worth!) came in for service..the driver only uses it to walk his dogs.... the entire interior was covered in dog hair , all the door panels and dash in muddy paw prints.... refuses to fit a cheap load liner or a dog guard..as he doesnt have to pay when it goes back....

General - Reliability index - Engineer Andy

I'm easily impressed then and just happy when the dealer cleans my car when it's in for a service. Is it just me or do people spend too much time cleaning cars, surely scraping all that dirt off on a weekly basis can't do it any good;)

Get rid of the bird's much and dirt around the wheels/wheel well and anywhere where it can easily trap moisture and thus contribute to the car rusting.

TBH, I rarely clean my car (the rain does it for me, and doesn't leave any streaks as it's soft water), maybe 2-3 times a year when I'm at my parent's house (I live in a flat and washing it at home is a real pain) when I have access to their hose pipe. That and when it gets serviced.

Other than that I keep the lights, windows and number plates clean for safety and legal reasons.

General - Reliability index - Avant

It's exactly 40 years (from when I had the first of seven Renaults) from when dealers have cleaned my cars inside and out when servicing them.

I'm fairly sure they clean them after the service rather than before, but they could choose to do it the other way round if a car is caked in mud. I agree entirely if you want a mechanic to do a good job you shouldn't make it difficult for them.

General - Reliability index - thunderbird

Another Motab car (£25k s worth!) came in for service..the driver only uses it to walk his dogs.... the entire interior was covered in dog hair , all the door panels and dash in muddy paw prints.... refuses to fit a cheap load liner or a dog guard..as he doesnt have to pay when it goes back...

As far as I am aware a Motabilty lease is like any other lease, any unreasonable wear and tear is charged for. That was how it was some years ago when a resident at the sheltered housing the wife worked at sent his Renault Megan back. She received a £900 bill for valeting which was paid for out of the residents other benefits.

General - Reliability index - 72 dudes

Another Motab car (£25k s worth!) came in for service..the driver only uses it to walk his dogs.... the entire interior was covered in dog hair , all the door panels and dash in muddy paw prints.... refuses to fit a cheap load liner or a dog guard..as he doesnt have to pay when it goes back...

As far as I am aware a Motabilty lease is like any other lease, any unreasonable wear and tear is charged for. That was how it was some years ago when a resident at the sheltered housing the wife worked at sent his Renault Megan back. She received a £900 bill for valeting which was paid for out of the residents other benefits.

Unfortunately, the fare wear and tear for Motability customers is rather more liberal these days. Dents and scrapes in the bodywork, or trim damage due to wheelchairs, hoists etc is allowable on return and the £600 'good condition bonus' is paid within a few days. Equally, a filthy interior is not penalised.

The majority of Motability customers look after their cars, but there will always be those few who let the side down, leaving room for the rest to be criticised.

General - Reliability index - paul 1963

I really don't understand people that drive around with a car full of c##p, I've just poped out and had a look at ours, there's a carrier bag in the boot and a 1p piece in the centre consul ( both down to swmbo) and that's it, it's gets a proper wash once a week and a full valet once a month.

Why after paying at least several thousands of pounds would you not look after it? I know I'm maybe a little obsessive when it comes to car care but for me it's all about "pride of ownership ". As for letting a dealer clean it....no thanks..never.

General - Reliability index - Steveieb

As far as reliability is concerned my choice would be the Toyota Yaris Mk 1 built in Japan.

Bought an auto on a Y plate for dil three years ago . No service record and it’s been totally faultless.

What is it that stops me buying one ? I end up with Audi s and while they are lovely cars they are no where as reliable as a Toyota. Especially one built in Japan .