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Thanks for that, most helpful.
I'm aware that the MX5 is an excellent well-sorted motor, but a strict two-seater is not what I need. I found that recently when I had an Audi TT 3.2. It's not so much that I need the extra seats, but on days out we found we felt the need of space for "baggage" inside the car, picnic, maps, coats etc. need to be accessible without having to exit the car to get to the boot.
I currently run a 2012 Smart Cabriolet (84) of which we're very fond but it's not really suitable for the longer trip. It's a strict two-seater but "baggage" can be got at by reaching behind the seats. (I know what is said about the transmission, but after retro-fitting a paddle shift wheel I'm happy with it.)
Clutchless is essential. I would not go back to manual now. A Fiat 500 convertible is on my list but I was not aware that the Dualogic gearbox was a problem.
Maybe I'll have a look at a Peugot 207CC Auto.
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All automated manual gearboxes in cars are potentially going to cause problems in one way or another, including the one in the Peugeot 207.
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Seems to me almost any component in a motor car could be regarded as a potential problem. I have to assess the chances and then take the plunge :)
The automated manual on my Smart has been trouble-free BTW
Edited by usualdisclaimer on 20/01/2020 at 12:50
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I often wonder whether problems with cars is in large part a consequence of how they are driven - abused or with restraint.
Auto gearboxes may be a case in point - they are easily abused with a heavy right foot. Similarly tyres, gearboxes, brakes are also vulnerable to more enthusiastic driving styles.
Failing to regularly service cars can lead to problems, as can a failure to deal with minor problems before they escalate to major.
As a result the reputation and reliability of cars may have as much to do with the typical owner than with the vehicle itsself. Just a thought!!
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All automated manual gearboxes in cars are potentially going to cause problems in one way or another, including the one in the Peugeot 207.
Can’t recommend that one either. The Prince VTi petrol motors as used in the Mini are notorious for eating timing chains. Hard one this. I’ll ponder a few options but it might mean more money and a bit of travel.
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I often wonder whether problems with cars is in large part a consequence of how they are driven - abused or with restraint.
Auto gearboxes may be a case in point - they are easily abused with a heavy right foot. Similarly tyres, gearboxes, brakes are also vulnerable to more enthusiastic driving styles.
Failing to regularly service cars can lead to problems, as can a failure to deal with minor problems before they escalate to major.
As a result the reputation and reliability of cars may have as much to do with the typical owner than with the vehicle itsself. Just a thought!!
In terms of reliability, yes you are probably right. And in the case of dual clutch automated manuals, the motoring press are probably at least partly responsible here. With DCT's being touted for the speed of changes and the fact that they are usually quicker in acceleration than the manual equivalent. So you get folk, obviously not all (but how do you know how a used car has been driven?), doing flat out acceleration to score points at the traffic light grand prix. What kind of damage is this going to do to the components?. Yes, this type of gearbox came about specifically for motorsport, but how often will a DCT in this application be replaced or rebuilt?, i'd imagine new clutch packs pretty regular too.
In the case of the single clutch jobs. like the Smart, the problems can be reliability, but there is also driveability to consider. The delayed reaction of some and the jerky gearchanges. That is certainly putting me off the notion of going for a Suzuki Ignis 'auto' as our next car, which would otherwise be ideal, having the raised seating position along with the narrowness i would like. This is especially irritating because in Australasian markets, the Ignis auto has a (IMO, far superior) CVT.
For the OP, seeing as you are well used to your Smart's gearbox, you probably would be fine with an automated manual (single or dual clutch), but i'd still be very wary of the reliability given whatever car you buy is going to be some years old for £6k.
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Hard to solve this one, pretty much everything that fits your needs has either a known engine issue (Mini, 207, Fiat Twin air, 4cyl BMW 1 series) or has a weak and overly complex automated manual gearbox (Fiat, Ford and VW/Audi) while the best small convertible doesn’t suit as it only has two seats and is very rare as an auto.
The Mini may indeed be the best of a bad bunch here. The biggest weakness is the PSA motors habit of lunching its timing chain, it’s incredibly common on these so look for cars with full main dealer or genuine Mini specialist histories, walk from any that don’t. At least the Mini is an easy enough sell when you get fed up with the faults and it’s always fun to drive. I’d buy only if you have a good BMW/Mini specialist nearby that really understands these cars and I’d spend a bit more to get a really nice low mileage example.
I’d look at the BMW 1 series too, preferably a 6cyl example which are much more robust than the 4cyl cars. Again they’re bad for chewing timing chains if they don’t see the correct oil often enough but at least there’s no worry on the tough gearbox. Again buy only with a full history and if there’s a good specialist nearby.
I can’t recommend the Fiat with an autobox or with the unreliable Twin air motor. They’re cute and easy to flog but the difference in reliability between a simple 1.2 petrol with a manual box and a complex model with that dim witted and unreliable gearbox is enormous. I’d have a 1.2 or 1.4T manual all day long though.
No Peugeot fits. The 207 is unreliable and horrid to drive. I wouldn’t buy one if it was the last car on the planet. This was Peugeot’s worst phase in history. 207, 307,308, 407... all were terrible, all were rubbish to drive and all were miserably unreliable. Don’t touch with a ten foot barge pole.
Another worthy would be the Lexus IS250 Convertible. Rare but bombproof, very refined and quite classy. A bit thirsty but look after it and it’ll still be going after the next ice age. You’ll need more money to get a good one though but it’s a keeper but not exactly exciting to drive.
Edited by SLO76 on 20/01/2020 at 23:01
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With DCT's being touted for the speed of changes and the fact that they are usually quicker in acceleration than the manual equivalent. So you get folk, obviously not all (but how do you know how a used car has been driven?), doing flat out acceleration to score points at the traffic light grand prix. What kind of damage is this going to do to the components?. Yes, this type of gearbox came about specifically for motorsport, but how often will a DCT in this application be replaced or rebuilt?, i'd imagine new clutch packs pretty regular too.
The DCT (or DSG by another name) is not in my experience used in motorsport. A friend of mine used to race but now restricts himself to trackdays. Like all successful competitors in his class he had to convert from a "H" pattern box to a type that allows faster changes. But they are not the gearboxes we see on production cars.
Here is a link to the type he used.
shop.quaife.co.uk/gearboxes/sequential
In Quaiffe's own words "Sequential gearboxes should not be confused with DSG style gearboxes that are fitted to many new road cars"
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The DCT (or DSG by another name) is not in my experience used in motorsport. A friend of mine used to race but now restricts himself to trackdays. Like all successful competitors in his class he had to convert from a "H" pattern box to a type that allows faster changes. But they are not the gearboxes we see on production cars.
Here is a link to the type he used.
shop.quaife.co.uk/gearboxes/sequential
In Quaiffe's own words "Sequential gearboxes should not be confused with DSG style gearboxes that are fitted to many new road cars"
Yes, i am well aware that a sequential gearbox and a DCT are not the same thing(!). But that does not change the fact that Porsche developed the first dual clutch automated manual for racing applications. It was subsequently used in the 962 racing car in the 80's.
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Hard to solve this one, pretty much everything that fits your needs has either a known engine issue (Mini, 207, Fiat Twin air, 4cyl BMW 1 series) or has a weak and overly complex automated manual gearbox (Fiat, Ford and VW/Audi) while the best small convertible doesn’t suit as it only has two seats and is very rare as an auto.
I was even thinking about the Suzuki Jimny convertible!. Reliable, compact, 4 seats, and a T/C auto. Perfect, yes?, sadly no!.
Not sure if the Jimny convertible was actually available in this country as an auto, but all of the (not very many) examples for sale on Autotrader and Ebay are manual, :-(
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“ I was even thinking about the Suzuki Jimny convertible!. Reliable, compact, 4 seats, and a T/C auto. Perfect, yes?, sadly no!.
Not sure if the Jimny convertible was actually available in this country as an auto, but all of the (not very many) examples for sale on Autotrader and Ebay are manual, :-(“
Tough wee cars but b***** awful to drive and worse as an auto. Too little power and too much noise and a wee bit too much bounce. But yeah, it’ll probably outlast anything else.
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Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.
Plenty to digest, but sadly no answer to my first question concerning when (if) Mini stopped using the troublesome CVT box on the Cooper convertibles. For the little money I plan to spend it seems that cars ranging from 2005 to 2012 are available but the ads don't specify the type of autobox used.
Re. Peugot 207CC. Looking at HJ's review and road test that doesn't look so bad as was suggested earlier in the responses.
Re. Fiat Dualogic. There's even more "problems" threads out there than there are for the Mini CVT!
Re. Lexus and BMW suggestions, they are a few steps up from where I want to be and might not fit in my garage.
I was taken by another car which cropped up during my searching, an Abarth 500C 1.4 T-Jet Competizione. I like a bit of bling and though I know it's nothing to do with a real Abarth it struck a chord as I did have a real Abarth many years ago in 1968. It was a 750GT Zagato which cost me £285!
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I believe (but might be wrong) that all the post 2009 R57 models will be a conventional 6sp auto while the earlier cars used a CVT which from what I’ve read isn’t very robust. A later car is the better bet but it’s not easy with Mini to be 100% sure as the firm frequency change specifications mostly to save money with components coming from different suppliers often month to month.
I spotted a nice Foat 500 Abarth auto soft top while looking too and it was nice. I’d have a manual one any day but the auto kinda ruins it. Go for a test drive in one to see if you can live with it and buy any of these small autos with caution and have a backup plan of the gearbox dies. It’s a common failure on automated manuals like the Fiats and in early CVT’s.
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