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In general - Diesels - tbg

Hi all

I'm looking in to getting a 2nd hand car , still trying to decide diesel petrol.i prefer the diesel more to do with torque than anything else, living in Norfolk with slow drivers I'd prefer the extra torque for the safer over take but still fear the horror stories that exist . The one thing I'd like to ask is I have just read an article on the rac website about dpf and it mentions how long they should last and cost to fix and the way I see it a dpf 100k miles, replace at a cost of 1k on some cars 100k mile means a new cam belt and around that mileage ish a new clutch all on the ish ,but if all this comes in or around the ish you could end up with a lot of expensive repairs , so to my mind a diesel with around 100k on average 10 years old could end up costing alot to keep running beyond the 100k mark. I feel that I must be getting this wrong. Any advice would be great.

In general - Diesels - galileo

Hi all

I'm looking in to getting a 2nd hand car , still trying to decide diesel petrol.i prefer the diesel more to do with torque than anything else, living in Norfolk with slow drivers I'd prefer the extra torque for the safer over take but still fear the horror stories that exist

Norfolk is, as far as I recall, flat, no long steep hills, right?

If you prefer diesels because they offer more torque for overtaking slow drivers/tractors etc, there is always the option, with a petrol car, of changing down a gear or two, I have never had a problem overtaking with my petrol cars. If you don't like changing gear, get an automatic and use the kick-down feature for rapid acceleration.

I would not risk a second hand diesel which is out of manufacturer warranty, there are many, many posts on here which support this view.

In general - Diesels - tbg

True about Norfolk. But I've tried a couple of low capacity petrols and not to happy with them even dropping a gear or two much preferred the diesels I've owned in the past and a recent hire Leon diesel also like the cheaper road tax and economy but am put of by the horror stories .

But thanks for the reply , but it still adds to my worries

In general - Diesels - gordonbennet

Both petrol and Diesel engines have cambelts that need replacing at X miles, ditto clutches and DMFs.

The alternatives are chain driven which require good servicing to keep in good order and if they fail are a whole next level of work and cost top replace.

The happy medium is to find cambelt driven engines that are simple to replace belts on, as even chains will require replacing at some point, and might well have worn the camshaft sprockets to boot.

The alternative to clutches are automatics, and these vary from old school reliable torque converter types thru less reliable right to ticking time bomb twin clutch and automated manuals at the other end, but even the most reliable TC units won't be reliable if you don't maintain them properly and if you drive the thing like you stole it engaging violent kickdown every few minutes they too will wear and break.

Its like with everything, there are good and bad bets.

Depending on where you live in Norfolk it is quite well served by well priced LPG stations, www.filllpg.co.uk/index.php?page=lpg.php running on around 60ppl LPG means you can run petrol engines with the equivalent power to Diesels economically, albeit you may well be paying a lot more in VED costs for the pleasure, you find them now and again used but rarely do people who have invested in LPG sell until they've had the best from it, so buyer beware, will cost anything from £1500 to £2000 to get a quality conversion with pressurised flashlube injection on a 4 or 6 pot engine with decent power output...our last 4 cyl conversion was £1750 due to higher power output requiring large LPG injectors plus a high quality flashlube system, be careful of people fitting systems appreciably cheaper than this, research extensively if this is of interest.

My Diesels have been reliable, but they have generally been carefully chosen, not only avoiding DPF's, but from marques with good reputations (even if their later behaviour and models don't always live up) and with good histories and conditions to begin with.

I'll make a Diesel suggestion to you though, find a (must be facelift so 2006 on) W211 Merc E220, say of 2007/8 vintage, with lowish mileage, and a proven service history preferably from a make specialist indy workshop who sensibly ignored long term oil service cobblers (you will need to keep this up), these things will cover 400k miles without too much to worry about so long as they are serviced well...facelift only because they dumped the troublesome SBS brakes at facelift, sorted out the many previous electrical issues and galvanised the body.

In general - Diesels - Gibbo_Wirral

Driving diesels locally is not just about the DPF.

There's also the EGR valve which will get gummed up. And that's not as simple to replace as a DPF.

Bigger heavier diesels also have a dual mass flywheel and clutch. That's also a hefty bill to consider.

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 07/01/2020 at 12:11

In general - Diesels - daveyjp

All ten year old cars will need money spending on them, but the potential for higher costs with diesels is always there.

DPFs are a consumable, EGRs, which can be changed very quickly, less than an hour is possible, but e.g VAG 1.6TDi a whole day.

Injectors, turbos etc can all cause problems and when they do you need an expert who can diagnose a fault correctly and not spend thousands guessing the solution.

In general - Diesels - pyruse

Why not get an older petrol car with a bigger engine? More reliable, plenty of acceleration when needed, none of the high expense you get with older diesels.

Get something Japanese with a chain cam engine (Honda, Toyota, Subaru)

In general - Diesels - SLO76
All depends on budget. If you’re spending £5k or less then diesel is a definite no no but if you’ve £10k or so then you can get a reliable diesel such as a Honda Civic 1.6 DTEC.
In general - Diesels - Gibbo_Wirral

It also depends on the car and the engine. I could get a small Pug with the 2L 90bhp diesel engine for anything from £200 to £1000 depending on condition.

They have no DPF, no dual mass flywheel clutch and any EGR issues are solved by just unplugging the solenoid.

In general - Diesels - Heidfirst

No, you aren't getting it wrong. Bear in mind that HJ says that the design life of a modern car is 7 years (& in the UK your legal rights to recourse against the manufacture expire after 6 {5 in Scotland]).

If you are going to buy a 100k s/h diesel car it is worthwhile budgeting at the start for at least replacing the DPF at some point (if you never need it you will have £1k in the bank for something else).

Also, does your mileage/typical journey actually warrant a diesel as inappropriate journeys will hasten the demise of a DPF & crudded up EGR valve etc.?

I am one of those that whilst aknowledging the driving merits of forced induction diesels (those old enough will remember that naturally aspirated diesels were typically deathly slow) am an advocate of not running a modern, emission-equipped, common rail turbodiesel outwith warranty.

Further, on modern cars full of electronics I strongly suspect that failure of those at ~10 years+ is going to see the early demise of many mechanically sound cars as they will be too expensive to repair/replace or parts unavailable.

Perhaps investigate the cost of a 1-2 year old or ex-demo car on a PCP or similar & see if that suits your budget?

In general - Diesels - focussed

(& in the UK your legal rights to recourse against the manufacture expire after 6 {5 in Scotland]).

You never have any legal rights for recourse against the manufacturer of a car from the day you buy it. Assuming that you don't buy the car direct from the manufacturer.

That's why manufacturers sell cars through dealers.

Edited by focussed on 10/01/2020 at 09:25

In general - Diesels - Peter.N.

I have been running diesels for over 30 years and find that Citroen/Peugeot engines are about the most reliable - except possibly the 1.6, the 2.0. engines are excellent.

They can be expensive to repair but I still do my own repairs (at 80 years of age) which not only saves me a fortune in labour but means I can source aftermarket or secondhand parts, which saves another fortune. In fact I couldn't afford to run one car let alone two if I had to pay a garage.

There are though some good one man band mechanics which are much cheaper than garage prices - if you can find one, recommendation is the best way.

In general - Diesels - Andrew-T

Peter, how old is your car? - do you still tinker with modern ones? We have two cars here, one (diesel) approaching 12 years old, the other (petrol) just 25. I only attempt superficial jobs with the newer one, which luckily has never done anything naughty, even though it is the 1.6 HDi.

In general - Diesels - gordonbennet

Well done Peter N, there's hope for me yet then.

I too service and repair most things on the cars myself, not sure i'd be physically up to taking the gearbox out of my Landcruiser unassisted any more mind, luckily the cars generally only need regular servicing and we all know good servicing makes things last so major repairs are rare.

One thing i'm struggling with is finding adequate diagnostics to interrogate my Toyota, i've had suggestions on the forum before but so far no joy, the Techstream system i bought which some people seem to get on with will not link to my car, its not the car at fault because my simple Autel code reader links immediately.

I want to get my injectors tested in situ, not just the feedback values but the total fuel going through to judge for myself whether they need doing (somehow i can't see Mr T offering to let me watch the diag readings as they test it or even report the findings i want), i'm going to clean out the EGR this summer and if the injectors need replacing then its very little extra work to change them, what is involved though is lots of careful cleaning of the injector seats in the head and i'm yet to find someone i would entrust this work to who would have the patience for this (when they will be paid bonuses based on throughput), and would rather do it myself, which is fine but without the proper diag tool i can't program the new injectors to the ECU.

We used to have one of the best Diesel shops in the country nearby, but thats been sold on and the new people have proved not up to quite the same standards.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/01/2020 at 10:09

In general - Diesels - Heidfirst

One thing i'm struggling with is finding adequate diagnostics to interrogate my Toyota, i've had suggestions on the forum before but so far no joy, the Techstream system i bought which some people seem to get on with will not link to my car, its not the car at fault because my simple Autel code reader links immediately.

What Toyota are you trying to connect to? Which version of Techstream & what are you running it on?

In general - Diesels - Peter.N.

I'm running two C5 X7 2008 estates, not the easiest cars to work on but I have just changed the thermostat one one which entailed removing practically all the pipes and cables on the right hand side of the engine, I also had to buy a remote hose clip remover as you cant even see the one at the back of the housing. Probably took me about three days! allowing for rain and waiting for parts. The thermostat, temperature sensor and housing was only 24 pounds on Ebay.

Other parts are not so difficult, took the starter off in about 20 minutes. They are lovely cars though, they don't shake your teeth loose over rough surfaces unlike most other cars I have driven in the last 10 years.

In general - Diesels - paul robert watson

buy a cheap OS11 code reader and take it with you whatever car you go to look at.Google the position of the code socket for whatever car you decide on.Look at Chris fix on You Tube

buying a car Diesel or otherwise.an old Honda Diesel may suit.Mine has 100k most expense has been replacing fluids,some of which were supposed to have been replace

by a main dealer but I know they have not.other than that filters and wipers and gas stuts.

In general - Diesels - Terry W

There are increasing environmental controls and regulation and diesels are seen as the No 1 culprit - this is a statement of fact, not that I necessarily agree or disagree.

Buying an older diesel almost certainly means that you will not be able to drive into some cities - and within a few years emissions zones will probably spread to cover smaller towns.

You also need to be aware that small modern cars have improved massively over the last 10 or 20 years. Small cars used to be noticably noisier, less comfortable, more poorly equipped etc than their larger more powerful equivalents. Buying a (say) 4 year old small (not micro) car will be cheaper to fix, cheaper to fuel, probably cheaper VED and insurance.

In general - Diesels - barney100

Not all diesels need a cam belt, my 2012 SLK has the chain. I've had diesels for while now, current v70 is 12 years old...no dpf trouble, SLK ditto. There must be something in the dpf problems but I've ...touch wood...not had any. Both cars do a mixture of local and motorway stuff, V70 on 135k and SLK on 57k and both autos so no clutch needed. V70 has been a great car, bought about 5 years ago for £8k so it owes me very little. Apart from tyres, brakes and the usual stuff it's behaved itself.