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One thing I'd do is always look to buy a specific generation of car that has been in production for at least a year, preferably 2 if has more gizmos on it, as it means that the car is less likely to have had reliability issues thatn those when the model came to market - any problems have likely been resolved by then.
I would also advise to be whatever car with the lowest spec (the KISS prinicple) as per your requirements - the ever increasing amount of tech in cars (not just safety and emissions-related) means that owners are increasingly being used as beta testers for the kit.
One thing I look for is a pattern of reliability/hardiness in a car/make, especially the bits that would cost the most to replace, particularly if I intended to keep the car for a good number of years, i.e. well outside of its warranty period. Some makes, including Oriental ones, do charge well above average for parts, but if the reliability is high, then that matters less because they don't have to be replaced that often, if at all.
Unfortunately, some 'issues', such as those experienced by people hoodwinked into buying diesels for low mileage, short journey driving, are not always easy to spot, especially if a new generation of a car has just appeared - this is why I normally wait until any problems appear and hopefully fixed, or enough time has elapsed so that none of consequence will appear. I'd still say that some luck is involved, especially in the current generation of tech-heavy cars.
As Leif says, buying an older high spec/luxury/sports car for the same price as a new mid-spec mainstream hatchback is obviously not going to garner the same result as regards the cost of ownership, even if for a while it seems the better choice because of the driving experience or the 'kudos' (which often quickly fades if its used as an everyday car) of an upmarket brand.
This is also why getting as much information about a model or specific car (history) is important to inform your eventual choice, especially for the buyer on a budget or who needs to finance a purchase with a loan, etc.
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I would also advise to be whatever car with the lowest spec (the KISS prinicple) as per your requirements - the ever increasing amount of tech in cars (not just safety and emissions-related) means that owners are increasingly being used as beta testers for the kit.
Two minds here - as someone who now has to pay for one's own motor, I want as little to go wrong as possible.
However, the current motor has two bits of kit that are relatively new and costly that have saved mine and someone else's life.
First was the collision avoidance radar. I was on a roundabout above a motorway and some idiot raced up the slip road and on to the motorway without stopping. I clocked the car at the last moment but before I could get my foot off the accelerator my car had already stopped.
The second is blind spot detection. Before pulling out to pass a lorry, I checked behind and over the shoulder, moving my head to make sure nothing was obscured by the B or C pillar. Couldn't see a thing. The orange "something is there" light was on the wing mirror and there was a motorbike there hiding behind the metalwork. That could have been nasty.
Both systems rely on radar tech as I understand, hidden in the bumpers - no doubt making even a small bump a very expensive repair.
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Three "answers" here but none addressing the question? Are depreciation rates going to change perhaps because government tax old high emission cars off the road or electric cars having much the same affect in say the next 7 years. A 7 year old £20k car could be worthless in another 7years giving £3k a year depreciation? What to currently buy is a bit of a conundrum
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I think older cars will depreciate faster than they did historically as city/town charging schemes hit older Euro levels and progressively move forward.
It would seem prudent to me to regard any car at 14 years old as worthless, with any actual value a bonus.
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They unquestionably continue to depreciate. Just do a search on Autotrader for (say) S Class Mercedes - chosen as the name is consistent for the last 20 years or more. Look at the asking price for (say) 2013 and compare it with those for 2007.
There are multiple reasons for depreciation:
- they are 6 years older - one or two redesigns/upgrades out of date
- they are likely to have more miles on them
- much of the tech on a 12 year old premium car is now on new family hatchbacks
- all components are older and closer to needing replacement
Even accepting that the build quality on a premium car should be much better than a volume car, they do have a finite life. By the time the £20k new volume car gets to (say) 15 years old, it is worth at most £2-3k in very good condition, and little more than scrap if scruffy or poorly maintained.
The £20k 6 year old premium motor after 15 years may may be worth a little more if well maintained with service history and reasonable mileage. But to keep it that way will have cost several £'000 more than the hatchback in the meantime.
Just bear in mind all your servicing, routine replacements and major repairs will reflect the cost of a £60-80k machine, not a mass produced £20k car.
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Three "answers" here but none addressing the question? Are depreciation rates going to change perhaps because government tax old high emission cars off the road or electric cars having much the same affect in say the next 7 years. A 7 year old £20k car could be worthless in another 7years giving £3k a year depreciation? What to currently buy is a bit of a conundrum
Fair enough. I guess none of us know. Few people will have seen the diesel scandal looming and the subsequent drop in the price of used diesels.
I can give you my opinion, which really is worth nothing.
Electric cars are at present not really economically viable except for niche uses such as avoiding paying in the London charging zone. There are suggestions that other big cities will copy London, so if you drive regularly into a big city, it might be worthwhile to do research into these plans and their impact on you.
Now you could buy an electric car today, but range is often poor, recharging is a hassle and initial cost is high. Companies are putting huge sums into battery and motor technology research, so you could see a revolution in 5 years. Batteries with twice the capacity would massively reduce prices (less battery needed, less dead weight to carry).
As for expensive cars, if you mean a car with poor mpg, I suspect taxation in the form of purchase tax and VED will only get worse.
We have recently seen huge improvements in petrol cars. My modest Polo did over 60 mpg per tank almost every month this year, hitting 70 mpg at one point. It should see me through ten years, with luck and a prevailing wind. Are you looking at 7 year old cars costing £20,000 or more? Do you need such a car? How badly does the price hit you? If lots, maybe rethink. If not much, then go for it.
I just can’t accept the idea that I buy an expensive car and lose massive amounts in depreciation and maintenance costs. A modest super mini is more than I need.
I warned you that my opinion was worth nothing. ;)
Edited by Leif on 30/12/2019 at 18:07
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Three "answers" here but none addressing the question? Are depreciation rates going to change perhaps because government tax old high emission cars off the road or electric cars having much the same affect in say the next 7 years. A 7 year old £20k car could be worthless in another 7years giving £3k a year depreciation? What to currently buy is a bit of a conundrum
Hard to answer as no one can really predict the political wind of tomorrow. It’s doubtful however that any government will retrospectively hammer cars that are already on the road but I do believe fuel will be taxed more heavily as electric cars find traction and become the mainstream. I do see the appeal in a quality luxury car such as a Lexus or even certain German models but I would buy only if a genuine specialist was available nearby. I’m surrounded by several well regarded BMW and VAG specialists who make running such a vehicle much less of an economic risk.
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The accountant's answer is a generous 25% per annum, whatever the age of the car. Given that most cars with care and average (8000 p.a.) mileage should last at least 15yrs, 20% per annum is probably more valid. For a real example of a used quality luxury car, my 'forever car', bought nearly 6 yrs ago just before retirement, is a Dec2005 reg Audi A8 W12. When new, at £72,000 (according to my June2005 Top Gear mag), it was Audi's flagship sports saloon and cost over £12,000 more than the lesser V8. Apply 20% depreciation to a £75,000 car and after 8 years you get £12,583 (I paid £12,000 in 2014 when it was 8 years old). After 15yrs, at 20% p.a., the £75k car will have depreciated to £2638 and at that age the quality can vary enormously. At that age and beyond, the risk of expensive repair is a gamble (I have been lucky so far - only a couple of front anti-roll bar drop links) but can be set against the now minimal depreciation.
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My wife’s Yaris is now ten years old. It was bought on the scrappage scheme for £10800, plus an extremely tired T reg Yaris that had been in the family for a while. Now somewhat road weary but is not just the only car we have personally bought new but also the most reliable. In ten years and 70k miles in addition to service/ brakes/ tyres we spent £55 on a new exhaust shield and £240 on fixing a NSF suspension mounting issue.
if we said it is worth, say, £2800, then it has cost us £8000 over ten years, about £70 a month. Also we have very much appreciated the reliability, full size spare and roominess. We are now thinking about passing it on to one of the bin lids, which poses the question of a replacement.
Current thinking is a fairly recent used vehicle, petrol and definitely no larger than the Yaris. Early thoughts are another Yaris, obviously, but they are somewhat pricey. A Suzuki Swift with the 1.0 booster jet engine offers the potential of improved economy and japanese reliability but maybe higher depreciation. This could make a Yaris not cheaper but better long term value. Picanto and i10/20 on the list but feeling lukewarm here. Nothing french, obviously, and disinclined to deal with a German company that cheats and lies on an international scale.
I have a BCA trade card and suspect a few, enjoyable trips to Blackbushe are in prospect!
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"This could make a Yaris not cheaper but better long term value."
I think that's the key point. If you're going to keep it long term, then a bit more paid up-front may be worth it. Another Yaris is a known quantity: with a new model coming out there could be some good deals on the current one, either new or nearly-new.
That said, my elder daughter had four 1.3 Yarises but then moved to an i10 (1.2) as it was so much cheaper. She's now on her second i10 which is four years old and jas been no trouble so far. The 1.2 i10 is lively and much better to drive than the very pedestrian i20 which I once had as a courtesy car.
You could always live up to your name and look at an MG3.... but as it got older you might find yourself living up to the second part of the name.
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MGspannerman, you briefly mention the i10/20.
We have a petrol engined i20 in our family and I cannot stress enough what a super car it is. Before buying we studied and drove both the i10 and the i20 and found that the i20 has so much more to offer compared to the i10. If you go to a Hyundai dealer and compare the two you will immediately notice how small the boot is on the i10. The i20 has a reasonably sized boot and is suitable for most needs. The space inside is adequate and as it has a longer wheelbase than the i10 it gives what I deem to be quite a comfortable ride.
One other consideration to take into account, if ever you wish to fit a towbar I believe that it is not possible to fit one to the current shape i10 ( 2015 ? onwards ) and another thing to watch out for on many newish cars of all makes is that many of them have have ceased to build in a CD player which some people still prefer.
Anyway, I hope my two pen’orth is of some use.
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....(Yaris) the most reliable. In ten years and 70k miles in addition to service/ brakes/ tyres we spent £55 on a new exhaust shield and £240 on fixing a NSF suspension mounting issue. .... Nothing French, obviously, ....
I have had the same experience with my almost 12-years-old French car, except that mine has not yet had any issues with suspension mounts, despite a minor front-end collision. Nor anything electrical, perhaps surprisingly. Still, there's no reasoning with established prejudices ... :-(
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Thank you for thoughts. I must say I am very tempted to go with another Yaris, as a family we have had half a dozen or so Toyotas over the years and really no problem at all. A good main dealer just down the road too. Thank you also Dag for the heads up on the Hyundai which together with Avant's post suggests I really ought to go and have a look and indeed will. A lot depends on how well this might be received by the main driver, not me!
No, I am not prejudiced against French cars and their electrics, simply having learnt by the best teacher - experience. As I mentioned I have a BCA trade card and occasionally buy on behalf of a car trader. I am tangentially involved in the business and have been for years.
There have been many painful experiences with french electrics. The most recent was a DS3 taken in px for a car that was hanging around and needed to be moved on, normally we would not trade french cars. The Citroen drove very well and whilst being used as a runabout, to check all was OK, no problem. it then developed a slight misfire that was initially thought to be a valve problem but then appeared to be electrics.
There comes a point when a competent mechanic can do no more even with the diagnostic kit etc and has to hand over to the electrical specialist. Anyway, a thousand pounds later still no resolution of the problem. As a last throw of the dice a colleague heard something about the ignition barrel whilst Googling around. A replacement was sourced at a further cost of over £100 and solved the problem. A lucky break as there was no real explanation of the prime cause. The car did not go to the auction as destined and was retailed, albeit at no margin, but more importantly it cost an enormous amount of time.
So that's just one story about French electrics. I have others. I could also talk about Fiat electrics, Merc control modules, Jag brakes, VW autos etc etc as each car/brand has its quirks. I am sure there are drivers of French cars who are very happy with them and would buy nothing else, but we are all guided by our views and experiences. Perhaps a prejudice is simply an opinion that you happen not to agree with.
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....(Yaris) the most reliable. In ten years and 70k miles in addition to service/ brakes/ tyres we spent £55 on a new exhaust shield and £240 on fixing a NSF suspension mounting issue. .... Nothing French, obviously, ....
I have had the same experience with my almost 12-years-old French car, except that mine has not yet had any issues with suspension mounts, despite a minor front-end collision. Nor anything electrical, perhaps surprisingly. Still, there's no reasoning with established prejudices ... :-(
My K class micra bought when four years old was expensive to maintain. My VW Up bought new worked out far cheaper over six years. I suspect that statistically Japanese is best but they are not faultless.
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