All valid points but there is also the factor of your personal attitude to depreciation. The percentage initial depreciation will be high on "budget" models but the £ depreciation will tend to be less than mainstream models bought and sold at similar ages to one another. It's as much about emotion as maths isn't it?
Meanwhile my second hand 2018 Golf, bought only two months ago for about £15k comes out of HJ pricing model with a "most are between" figure of £14.9 to £16.4 but a PX figure of only £11.7. Pretty savage short term potential depreciation on a model that is said to hold its price.
Over time, if I keep it for six years or so, it will probably lose about £9k, which is how my previous Civic fared. Not bad and orb might well find his £ loss is not much different over a similar period.
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That’s the valuation at an MG dealer against another much more expensive model, try the same exercise at another non-MG dealer and you’ll sadly be horrified.
Indeed, and is a great advertisment for keeping budget cars for as long as they are economic to run. A few months ago, I worked out my Mazda had depreciated by only £650 - £700 average over its (then) 13+ yo lifespan. ORB would therefore have no such concerns if they intend to keep the car 10 years or more and if (outside of its warranty) it is reliable and doesn't fall to bits.
To me, depreciation is only ever important if the car originally cost a lot of money (to the owner) and/or if they always change cars under 5 years of use from new. Otherwise, running costs and dependability are more important other than the driving experience.
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Indeed,
#1. No current intention to change....
#2, Was just pointing out how right SLO76 was originally.
#3 Actually, It HAS grown on me, does everything I need it to, and fuel and insurance costs are very reasonable. It is roomy inside and while it is in no way a "sporting" MG it does fit all the criteria that we have, also if it is "pushed" it does go quite well.
Last, but not least, as Andy points out the depreciation only matters if i go to sell. for me that would be £200 a month on price I paid, but more than double that for someone paying full retail, as per the gent with the white MGZS with "rust" problems, bought on the 0% package and stuck with it.
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Have you looked at the price of any jag after about 5years !!!!!!!! could buy an immaculate x type sovereign 2007 for less than £1000.
I wonder why Jags depreciate at such an alarming rate ?
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Depreciation is a fact of life and always has been. But buy wisely and you can minimise it.
If the OP got a 25% discount he paid about £11000 and with the car worth £8300 he has only lost £2700 in 2 years. That is nothing to worry about IMHO.
Take my car. A Nissan Pulsar 1.6 DIG-T Acenta with the Tech pack. List price in February 2018 when I bought it was £19000 inc metallic. Parkers now list it as £8510 as a PX. That would be a £10500 loss in 2 years and that would be shocking.
But at the time I bought it the model was being discontinued and our local dealer was keen to do business. My initial expectation was to buy a pre reg but they had no 1.6's (only 1.2 and diesels) thus had to buy new. but after some negotiating and contributions I paid £12000 including white paint and 3 years servicing.Thus in 2 years it has depreciated about £2500, very similar to what the OP has experienced.
And consider the Fabia we bought for the wife last month. 20 months old and with extras it cost £17000 new. The sticker price was £9950 and we got more than I expected for the Focus. The original owner experienced savage depreciation if they paid list.
Buy wisely and be happy.
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Paying list price, or anywhere close to it for a new car is daft. Some persuade themselves otherwise with spurious or contrived arguments, but more often that not it is a case of want over need and plenty of money.
Rental, and large volume purchasers rarely pay list but get discounts of 30-40%. This allows a daily rental company to charge low rentals to corporate (generally not personal customers), cover tax, insurance, valeting, site costs etc etc. They then trade s/h cars, often through car supermarkets, who sell at 40% off list with 10-20k on the clock.
The solution for the rather more cash strapped punter who wants a new car is to go for the occassional deal that comes during model run-out, upgrades, overstocks, etc etc. If you are slightly flexible as to colour, spec, and even make or model there are bargains to be had at 25-30% off.
The next bit of the strategy is to keep the car for as long as reasonably sensible. As other posters note the depreciation curve flattens right out after 8-10 years and the only issue is to judge when more frequent failures (inevitable as vehicle ages and mileage increases) outweigh the depreciation benefit..
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Rental, and large volume purchasers rarely pay list but get discounts of 30-40%. This allows a daily rental company to charge low rentals
And those companies sell them back to the trade with very little loss, usually just before the first service falls due (part of the reason why service intervals have reached 12K miles). So to get a good deal the economically-minded punter should find a damage-free ex-rental car at this time of year when demand is low. As with any other car you may be unlucky, but my Pug 207SW was such a vehicle, and after 11 years I am still waiting for it to do anything causing unplanned expenditure.
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Rental, and large volume purchasers rarely pay list but get discounts of 30-40%. This allows a daily rental company to charge low rentals
And those companies sell them back to the trade with very little loss, usually just before the first service falls due (part of the reason why service intervals have reached 12K miles). So to get a good deal the economically-minded punter should find a damage-free ex-rental car at this time of year when demand is low. As with any other car you may be unlucky, but my Pug 207SW was such a vehicle, and after 11 years I am still waiting for it to do anything causing unplanned expenditure.
Many people especially JohnF like to remind us that they keep cars for hundreds of years and pay tuppence a year for replacement bits. Many here tell us that Japanese cars are indestructible. And yet I kept two cars till they were ten years old, and both incurred huge repair bills towards the end, and should have been sold at 8 years old. One was a K class Nissan Micra, the other a Ford Ka (original style). Maybe small cars are especially vulnerable to rot, or maybe my doing high mileage was the cause. Both did well over 100,000 miles. Are there cars that consistently last longer?
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Rental, and large volume purchasers rarely pay list but get discounts of 30-40%. This allows a daily rental company to charge low rentals
Many here tell us that Japanese cars are indestructible. And yet I kept two cars till they were ten years old, and both incurred huge repair bills towards the end, and should have been sold at 8 years old. One was a K class Nissan Micra, the other a Ford Ka (original style). Maybe small cars are especially vulnerable to rot, or maybe my doing high mileage was the cause. Both did well over 100,000 miles. Are there cars that consistently last longer?
There are, and the venerable Yaris, so long as you avoid MMT gearbox from hell, is one such in the smaller car range.
Toyotas have form for this, Starlet is one and there are many Carinas doing sterling service and Camrys and Corollas, Nissans you need to go back a bit further in time to find those long term reliable models but they rusted away if you didn't attend to the problem areas.
Not forgetting Landcruisers though in the case of those they cost a relative fortune to buy in the first place no matter the age...used examples say 8 to 15 years old anything from twice to six times the price of an equivalent Range Rover which cost anything up to twice when new.
What all long lasting cars have in common though is good servicing, and i don't necessarily agree with John F's regime here, in fact because we have a mild spell i treated both cars to a quick interim oil change this week, Scooby takes 15 mins, Toyota 30 mins if i don't leave it to drain overnight for oil pick inspection.
Oil servicing especially is so cheap, just bought an extra 4 oil filters for the LC in GSF's sale, and i usually buy good quality engine oil for that car @ £46 for 20 litre drum, no it isn't Gucci oil supposed to last 20k miles but then i'm not daft enough to believe in that anyway as almost no production car or 4x4 is fitted with an oil spinner as lorry engines are to get the most out of the oil, most gearbox oil changes are no more expensive and on some cars as easy as an oil change so why not do one a year @ a cost of what £15/30 beats the hell out of a new gearbox at anything up to £5k.
The thing with servicing is to remember that many maker's idea (again Toyota, especially LC's tend to have long term sensible service regimes) of servicing is not designed to see the car last long term, so mucho common sense is required here especially to braking systems which are neglected terribly by so many, and some efforts put into corrosion control and underbody cleaning after the winter salts have gone.
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Are there cars that consistently last longer?
Well, I don't know if it's 'consistent' and suspect it's not, but I had a Citroen C5 that did 16 years for me and at least another year for its next owner. So, even cars with a poor reputation for longevity can be fine if looked after. I simply had it serviced on the dot by a great independent garage and replaced some wear-and-tear items around 8 years and 12 years into its life. Lovely car!
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Paying list price, or anywhere close to it for a new car is daft. ..... more often that not it is a case of want over need and plenty of money. The solution for the rather more cash strapped punter who wants a new car is to go for the occassional deal that comes during model run-out, upgrades, overstocks, etc etc.
Spot on. Having kept depreciation to the hundreds, rather than thousands of pounds per annum during the last 40yrs, we splashed out on an end of line top of range new Pug 2008 for £17k, taxed and on the road. As our pensioners' vision deteriorates a crystal clear windscreen at night is desirable.
The next bit of the strategy is to keep the car for as long as reasonably sensible.
We intend to keep it indefinitely. I see no electromechanical reason why it should not last us as long as our Xreg Focus has, which will for us be a dramatic increase to £1000 per annum depreciation.
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As our pensioners' vision deteriorates a crystal clear windscreen at night is desirable
Could just replace the screen on your current car!
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As our pensioners' vision deteriorates a crystal clear windscreen at night is desirable
Could just replace the screen on your current car!
Nearly did, but a son back in UK from years abroad needed a car so he's got the Focus now.
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Have you looked at the price of any jag after about 5years !!!!!!!! could buy an immaculate x type sovereign 2007 for less than £1000.
I wonder why Jags depreciate at such an alarming rate ?
It is a prestige car and expensive to insure, service and repair. Tyres cost a packet. Petrol ones guzzle fuel, diesel suffers the anti diesel trend. And they have a reputation for being unreliable.
To my eye a lot of them look like ‘old men’s cars’ and if that view is widespread it can’t help. BMW have a good reputation among young(ish) men which helps the used market. Very popular among hockey players, including one coach I knew who drove his into a tree necessitating a heart transplant. I don’t think I’ve met a hockey player with a Jaguar, or Mercedes.
I’ve never driven one of these prestige cars, but whenever I’ve been in one it has been underwhelming. Prestige? Bah!
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Tell me about it.
Over the past 7 years I reckon I've probably lost in excess of a 1000 NT a year in vehicle depreciation.assuming I scrap the car now.
That used to be about 20 quid, but since yáll broke out Brexit, its now about 25 quid, and rising.
You don't seem to learn, either.
Edited by edlithgow on 28/12/2019 at 01:23
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Tell me about it.
Over the past 7 years I reckon I've probably lost in excess of a 1000 NT a year in vehicle depreciation.assuming I scrap the car now.
That used to be about 20 quid, but since yáll broke out Brexit, its now about 25 quid, and rising.
You don't seem to learn, either.
Not sure I understood any of that. What’s an NT? I learn quite a lot actually, such as how to change bathroom taps, and how to make a bath panel. Useful.
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. BMW have a good reputation among young(ish) men which helps the used market. Very popular among hockey players, including one coach I knew who drove his into a tree necessitating a heart transplant.
So its important to buy a car that iis popular with iidiots.
Basic principle of consumer capitalism:
The Market is a m****.
(5 letter word, beginning with a capital M, - the Mary Whitehouse Module doesn't like my punctuation either - which used technically would indicate a clinically defined low level of intelligence.)
Edited by edlithgow on 28/12/2019 at 01:40
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What’s an NT?
New taiwan (dollar)
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Good thread this.
In 2016 the Mrs brought a pre-reg Nissan Note Accenta Premium with metallic paint for £9,999 with 2 miles on the clock.
The list price was about £15,000 so not too bad a deal.
Probably worth about £5k now so that's £5k depreciation over 3 3/4 years - which isn't brilliant but it's not dreadful either.
The problem I face at the moment is that I can't find a decent car to replace my Tucson lease which will be up in February.
Looking for a good price for a similar sized car but needs to be automatic. Are there any run out models or pre-reg deals about?
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Trying to think what's being replaced or facelifted next year (so there should be deals on run-out models):
Ford Kuga
Renault Captur (probably a bit small for you)
Mercedes GLA
Subaru Forester
Or a Skoda Octavia estate would do the job if you don't need 4wd.
Or - using slightly different logic - as the Tucson has been around for some time, there could be good deals on another one from a Hyundai dealer who could put yours on its forecourt.
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Cheers Avant!
Seen a few of the Skoda Octavias for about £15k for a 2l TDI with <5k miles and £18k for an almost new one, which seem ok.
I am hoping these have the stronger DSG box.
I like cars but have lost a lot of interest re my needs because I now have to pay for it (allowance from the company rather than a company car) and the need for an auto because of a painful ankle.
This looks reasonable to me, unless I am missing something:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191026371...0
I will need to have a good test drive because I am used to the ease of getting in and out of an SUV (bad back as well as bad ankle).
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Yes, the 2-litre VAG cars (petrol and diesel) have the stronger wet-clutch DSG.
If you want an SUV, 2 litres, and petrol you'd need the Kodiaq rather than the Karoq, but both are available with the 2.0 diesel. That Marshall branch should have these for you to sit in and see what's comfortable.
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Vauxhall Mokka has been discontinued so there should be some great deals.
There are!
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I love cars but hate losing money on them. I put myself off expensive motors many a year back when I bought an approved used 2yr old BMW 318Ci for £15,500, kept it 4yrs despite constant problems and irritants then sold it for £4,500 a loss of £11,000 in 4yrs or £2750 a year (£212 a month) on a car that was never reliable.
I bought an old 99-V Toyota Avensis 1.8 SE from an elderly neighbour for £1250 which I kept for 3yrs then sold for £850 (£11 a month loss) and it was far more reliable. This was the beginning of Bangernomics for me. The current 2010 Toyota Avensis estate cost £4150 just over a year ago and has an approximate depreciation cost of £500 a year assuming no major failures occur or £42 a month, cheap motoring compared with even the most basic new city car on PCP.
The 2012 VW Polo 1.2 TDI I bought for swmbo cost £7295 4 & 1/2 yrs ago and is worth around £3,500-£4,000 as a private sale today so say £3,800 loss or £70 a month again without any major costs. Cheap motoring again. Combined both cars cost me less than a PCP on a new VW UP and both have been very dependable plus servicing costs are lower thanks to both being outside of manufacturer warranty and maintained by a good local independent and a VAG specialist.
New or nearly new cars suffer terrible depreciation, the best way to avoid such costs and the trap of the never-ending PCP or lease is to buy a good used Japanese model like a Jazz, Civic, Yaris, Auris, Mazda 2/3 or Avensis at the right money. The thought of spending hundreds of pounds a month on a fairly mundane mass produced car you’ll never actually own horrifies me though swmbo is making rumblings about wanting such a thing again.
Edited by SLO76 on 30/12/2019 at 10:13
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Bangernomics
If only I could.
Work pay me a small monthly amount to run a car and insist on certain criteria (<10 years and <120k miles) but in reality, as it needs to start reliably every cold morning and I do about 25k miles a year, something at the younger end of the age range is required.
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<< Work pay me a small monthly amount to run a car and insist on certain criteria (<10 years and <120k miles) but in reality, as it needs to start reliably every cold morning and I do about 25k miles a year, something at the younger end of the age range is required. >>
My 25-year-old car starts reliably within 3 seconds every time. Admittedly it lives in an unheated garage, but it only drives every couple of weeks. So it's probably up to the battery, not the age of the car.
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Bangernomics
If only I could.
Work pay me a small monthly amount to run a car and insist on certain criteria (<10 years and <120k miles) but in reality, as it needs to start reliably every cold morning and I do about 25k miles a year, something at the younger end of the age range is required.
I have the very same thing to thank for the well looked after big car I have now. The last owner was well to do and had intended on keeping it longterm, never having scrimped on anything. She then had a promotion at work and a car allowance with a requirement that it has to be younger than 6yrs. I helped her locate a very nice Audi A4 1.4 TSi as a suitable replacement with which she is very happy.
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According to whocanfixmycar.com the Fiat Punto is the cheapest vehicle to maintain at £255 a year in repair costs, with a 2003 model costing just £495 . Just one problem, they break down a lot.
or a peugeot 206 which costs £283 a year to maintain costs around £390
or a MB old A class at £299 maintenance costs around £599 for a 2004 A140 Classic with history.
Seems expensive when compared with my A4 B6 1.9TDI with 160k which my indie valued at £175 since the roof lining fell down and had to be stapled back in place.
But i would have full confidence in driving down to Southern Europe in.
It cost me £3300 in 2012 !
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Via partners company car provider, they have offered a new Focus estate (1.0 Titanium spec) on a 24 month lease all in it works out at £5650 can put a total of 20,000 miles on the car.
The only additional cost (beyond fuel and insurance) is it's first year service which much be at a Ford dealer which comes in at £149 (they pay the road tax for each year).
I think this is a good deal (can't find another broker who can get near it on 24 month/20,000 miles contract) as essentially I will be getting a headache free 2 years of use of a high spec fantastic to drive estate with no further costs (won't need tyres, brakes, etc within 20k).
I know I could find a decent used estate for £5k but I like the idea or have become accustomed to the idea of changing while within warranty period, of driving well engineered modern cars , not having a financial ticking timebomb and the general reliability that comes with a new car.
Maybe I have become a manufacturers dream customer but I do think there is a good argument for leasing what are now incredibly expensive machines with lots to go wrong out of warranty. I don't wish to own such a large deprecating asset in a country that is increasingly anti car (disguised as being pro environment).
And finally, there are still some fantastic deals on pre reg cars if you have the cash to hand and this is still something I would consider , but I would still get rid when the warranty ended.
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That is a cracking deal.
Now if only MG did a deal like that on an HS. £235 ish a month.
Just checked, they do... but 48 months.. Have changed finance company///
Power to your mouse....
Edited by oldroverboy. on 03/01/2020 at 07:27
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Via partners company car provider, they have offered a new Focus estate (1.0 Titanium spec) on a 24 month lease all in it works out at £5650 can put a total of 20,000 miles on the car.
My employer's lease co offers deals from time to time. There is a catch though, they are subject to BIK tax as the deductions for the car are through salary sacrifice. They can work out more expensive then traditional leases or even buying the car for higher rate tax payers.
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