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This is a common question from my clients, and, generally, my response is to return the car a few days before the end of the contract or to have the MOT performed at the Lessee's cost (£40 should cover that, assuming a pass).
"Am I mistaken or should I stump up the cost of the MOT and potential other costs of defects found?" As you are responsible for returning the car in good (Road-worthiness included) condition, you are liable in any case for any items that cause the vehicle to fail a subsequent MOT, over which you will have no control. Not my idea of saving a few quid.
You state that you are returning the car to a dealer, which begs the question: "Is this a Lease, or some other type of financing? e.g. Contract Purchase (PCP)". Lease cars are almost invariably collected by an Auction Company as agents for the Lessor.
In order for the Leasing Company to comply with the requirement for continuous Licensing of the vehicle (VED or RFL), the vehicle must have a valid MOT on 1st February 2020. How are they going to do that? Have they agreed to sell it to your dealer on 31st January? This seems to be the only way that I would allow a client's Leased vehicle to be delivered up to a dealer.
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Thanks.
It is a lease with no option to buy - which is a shame as I would have considered buying it for the right price.
Not sure of the mechanics of returning it - as I picked it up from the dealer I guessed it should be returned to the dealer. I have received nothing from the lease co to say otherwise.
I take your point re the MOT. I will get it done by a local independent in December.
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Good decision Zippy. Have it MOT'd in early January to maintain the MOT anniversary, though this is not mandatory.
You need to contact the Leasing Company a.s.a.p. to agree a date of termination of the Contract. Some Leasing Companies (e,g. Lex Autolease) lay the onus on you, the Lessee, to do so, otherwise the leasing will continue until the car is back under their control. Do not leave this task to any other party (i.e. the dealer) as they can be forgetful!
With the agreement of the dealer, the Leasing Company may agree to collect the car on 31st January from them, but may also wish to inspect the car for Fair Wear and Tear prior to that date as the collecting driver may not be qualified to perform a full appraisal on behalf of the collection agent. And, don't forget, you are responsible for insuring the vehicle unless either the dealer or the Lessor specifically undertake to do so.
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I’d like to come in on this subject if I may and ask a question which leaseman may be able to answer. Quote “ And, don’t forget, you are responsible for insuring the vehicle unless either the dealer or the Lessor specifically undertake to do so”
I have a car on a personal contract hire which will end in approx 20 months time. I insure it fully comp for myself and wife to drive. When the time comes for it to be collected for return my insurance would not cover any collection driver. So presumably those drivers must be insured by the company that arrange the collections ?
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... you are responsible for returning the car in good (Road-worthiness included) condition, you are liable in any case for any items that cause the vehicle to fail a subsequent MOT ...
OK, but how subsequent is 'subsequent'? A week? A month? Longer?
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Any idea as to why the lease co point blank refuses to sell the vehicle to me at the end of lease?
I guess it will either go to dealer stock or auction with 65k miles on a 75k lease contract which will have costs attached. I reckon I would happily pay the WBAC price plus 50% of the difference between the WBAC price and the price in a dealer.
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Any idea as to why the lease co point blank refuses to sell the vehicle to me at the end of lease?
Perhaps because their business is leasing cars not retailing them?
Different business with different risks.
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A couple of questions to answer from above.
Firstly, any collection agent will ensure that all their drivers are covered under a Motor Trade policy to drive vehicles that they collect from lessees or Contract Purchase customers. No problem to demand proof of such before releasing a vehicle into their control.
Secondly, if a vehicle has been on a Lease contract, then the Lessor (Owner) will have reclaimed the VAT on the vehicle upon purchase. If they subsequently sell the car to the Lessee, then HMRC will deem that the original contract was, essentially, a Hire Purchase transaction and come down very heavily on the Lessor for tax evasion. I assure you that this has happened in my personal experience (not, I can assure readers, of my causing, but despite my objections- cost me my job!!!!) and the results were extremely expensive!!
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I always wondered why lessees found it very expensive to buy the car they were driving! Now i know..
We returned a lease car a couple of months back. The driver had left the compand I thought the car was in adequate condition for the age and mileage. The person who came to collect it had a good look around and pronounced that there was about £1,000 of matters to deal with including a missed service. Given the car was three years old and had driven no more than 16,000 miles I thought it was a bit much.
I went ballistic, but then finally we found a record of a service and when the car was delivered to the auction house we were advised that there was nothing to pay. Phew....
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Thank you, leaseman, for your answers above. Very useful.
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Just been on the phone to lease company. They refused to even sell the car to a relative - it all goes through BCA and is to do with HMRC as leaseman said.
Shame would have made life so much easier as I still can't find a car that I like!
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Any way of finding out when/ and where its going to be auctioned off?
Unless they deliberately ""launder"" them by shipping them off somewhere distant, it might be possible to make a fairly accurate guess at the local possibilities,
Or would the HMC "Eye of Sauron" spot you?
Edited by edlithgow on 31/12/2019 at 22:23
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Any way of finding out when/ and where its going to be auctioned off?
Unless they deliberately ""launder"" them by shipping them off somewhere distant, it might be possible to make a fairly accurate guess at the local possibilities,
Or would the HMC "Eye of Sauron" spot you?
It will be auctioned by BCA and I am guessing at their Blackbushe site which whist not too near, is my nearest location.
As far as I can tell there is nothing stopping me buying it at the auction as it would be a legitimate arms length transaction - but I am willing to take advise on this.
I could look it up and go bid on it but of course I would be up against the dealers who are used to bidding up amateurs.
Edited by Zippy123 on 31/12/2019 at 23:54
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The car went back to the lease company yesterday.
I still haven't decided on a replacement. Thing is I want a deal but can't react quickly enough with a test drive before the deal expires!
The inspector was very impressed with the car's condition. 60,000, a full manufacturers service 300 miles ago (plan based I paid for all the services when I brought the car).
He didn't think the car had been serviced fully as the book has spaces for 10k intervals but my model is on a 20k service interval and this is confirmed by the dealer. He said there will likely be a significant charge for that, despite me calling the dealer whilst he was there to confirm the 20k service interval for that model.
There was no PDI (pre-delivery inspection) report. Again there will be a fee to pay for that - there is nowhere in the documentation or contract that says that this needs to be available - I never got one - I have every document from the dealer and lease co in a folder.
He even used a mirror on a pole to inspect the underside of the car!
Alloy wheels (the flat sided two - tone ones) were perfect, never been kerbed or stone chipped.
There were no dents or scratches on the outside and the interior trim and seats were undamaged.
Then he found a scratch. Inside the "B" pillar, under 25 mm long and under 1 mm wide where the door will hide it when it's closed, just under the tyre pressure sticker. It looks like it's where the seat belt buckle got caught in the door. I hadn't even noticed it.
The cost, £200 plus VAT.
Outrageous. If I had noticed it a touch up pen from the dealer would have sorted it.
Not sure I will bother leasing again if these are the things you have to put up with (returns of company cars were never this problematic).
Edited by Zippy123 on 01/02/2020 at 23:15
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Many thanks, Zippy, for letting us know - a salutary example for anyone tempted by the idea of personal leasing. I'd heard that they can charge a lot for minor imperfections, but I didn't know they were as petty as that.
The sad specimen they employ is no doubt under instructions to find anything he can, just so that they can bump up the charge. If they do this all the time, it must make quite a contributon to the leasing company's profits.
And one should beware of temptingly low monthly payments, which tend to be for the basic car without any extras. A BMW for £300 a month soon becomes £400 because so much kit is on the options list.
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About a year ago my sister had to return her leased Fiesta. It had only done two years and 15k miles of a three years lease (she had become too ill to drive so it was an early return). She ended up in hospital on the scheduled collection date so I handled it.
A guy turned up and put on a 'CSI' style forensic suit - I kid you not! I was going to inspect with him but he basically told me to go away for 45 minutes. I watched through a window and it really was like a crime scene inspection. The car looked like new to me and had all the correct services and documents. He still found £500 of charges, including for some really tiny stonechips. I am assuming these guys are on commission. Having seen that I would never consider leasing.
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He didn't think the car had been serviced fully as the book has spaces for 10k intervals but my model is on a 20k service interval and this is confirmed by the dealer. He said there will likely be a significant charge for that, despite me calling the dealer whilst he was there to confirm the 20k service interval for that model.
Then he found a scratch. Inside the "B" pillar, under 25 mm long and under 1 mm wide where the door will hide it when it's closed, just under the tyre pressure sticker. It looks like it's where the seat belt buckle got caught in the door. I hadn't even noticed it.
The cost, £200 plus VAT.
These are the unfortunate risks you take when leasing a car. The car is expected to be returned in whatever condition the supplier deems acceptable and anything less results in bills for the customer. It strikes me that a particularly good deal, like you seem to have been looking for, is more likely to have particularly stringent requirements re the condition the car is returned in (to my mind, that is how they will make the money up over an identical car from somewhere else with higher monthly payments, deposit, whatever). So that should really be a lesson to anyone tempted by what appears to be a very good deal, look into the small print very thoroughly and think about how you treat your car.
It strikes me that there are a lot of similarities between a leased car and a cheap rented car when you are abroad on holiday. Seems like a great deal, but then you hand the car back in, it is inspected, whereupon a great list of tiny almost invisible scratches, chips, etc, which you then have to pay a fortune in extra costs for!.
Buying a new or nearly new car via finance or a loan may well work out more expensive in terms of monthly expenditure than a lease. But when you take into account the (often large) initial payment and extra bills for the 'damage' discovered when the car is returned, i'm not sure you'd be better off long term?.
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Sounds a lot like the very cheapest (one mob is almost famous online for all the wrong reasons) of car insurance policies, they make their money back by ripping you off via admin charges whenever they can.
This is a pure money making exercise, the bod in the bio suit sounds a right plonker, we all know almost none of the tiny items will be fixed before the car is sold on, its nearly as good a wheeze as some renters managing to charge several private (they don't do this to corporate regulars) hirers for the same damage.
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Just to clarify, the lease company wasn't one of the cheapest, it was a reputable brand that contracts with main dealers!
All the cheaper brokers on line seem to deal with the same type of companies higher up the chain - i.e. the supposedly quality leasing companies.
The deals are almost exclusively run out models - pre face-lift etc. so discounts are expected.
The bod who picked the car up worked for one of the big vehicle logistics / auction companies.
This was a 60k mile car on a 3 year lease (I had paid for 75k miles to be cautious but didn't need them in the end). Of course they will charge extra for excess mileage and give nothing back for lower mileage - I wonder how that works under unfair contract rules?
I wouldn't expect a 60k car in a showroom to be in such good condition - in fact when I have been looking around at low mileage ex-demo cars, they are certainly not in such good condition!
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It is too early to panic Zippy.
Most Contract Hire Companies will contract with Mannheim or BCA for the Inspection, Collection and Disposal of the car, and they may, in turn, contract with a local agent for the Inspection of the car, and provide them with the necessary equipment to perform this task.
Invariably, the Contract Hire Company will subscribe to the guidance issued by the British Vehicle and Rental Association (BVRLA), whose written policy can be found here: https://www.pikeandbambridge.co.uk/uploads/tinymce/
Fair%20Wear%20Tear%20Guide.pdf
In each step of the operation of collection, the car may be inspected 2 or 3 times before it is finally sold, and if any damage or absence is noted, that has been missed by an earlier inspector, that inspector risks being blamed (and even charged) for the omission.
The primary inspection will, therefore, be performed with a fine tooth comb, to prevent the Inspector from carrying the can.
The final decision as to whether a charge is made against the customer will be made by the Contract Hire Company, who also subscribe to the BVRLA Code of Conduct regarding Disputes and Conciliation to resolve such disputes. Companies hate to get involved in such process as it is time consuming and messy!
In particular, you mention a scratch of 25 mm on the B pillar. 25 mm is the specific limit for scratches to be acceptable, unless the scratch cannot be polished out of penetrates to bare metal.
My advice: Wait for any official charge or discharge of your responsibility and study the relevant section of the BVRLA guide, should there be a charge. Revert to this Post should you disagree with a charge and need further advice.
Blind criticism of after Contract charges is unfair. I have collected or repossessed and inspected hundreds of cars in a long career, and have arbitrated in many disputes regarding condition or omissions under various circumstances.
As any Forum member who has travelled to buy a used car will know: Some peoples' ideas of "As New" or "Excellent Condition" are very wide of the mark!
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Still keeping my options open at the moment but I was tempted by a good deal with a lease broker that advertised heavily.
You go through the entire process, name, address, bank details, historic addresses, credit history etc.
Then, and only after you press the apply for credit button do they tell you that that the car is a pre-reg and is already 2 and a half months old, so the warranty expires before the lease is up, removing one of the biggest advantages in having a lease IMHO.
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