The freeholder could arrange for a charging point to be installed.

If it is too much hassle just go for a hybrid

Tis is the issue with electric cars, which is why hybrid is the way to go, I do not know much about home charging as I can imagine the cost of the electric would prob be enormous, please let us know how you resolve this.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/oct/05/electric-car-ways-to-charge

Obviously not all of these are ready to roll but they give some idea of where technology is going.

True, but there are still many, many problems to iron out on the technical side (if they even can be), and the logistical and usage issues certainly haven't been, as I've mentioned before:

1. Lamp post-borne chargers are susceptible to vandalism (especially the cables), lamp posts themselves don't cover the number of cars out there in the density they need where they are mostly parked, and, given what I know about how wuickly/well councils attend to faulty street lights etc, I'm not optimistic over these being reliable.

I also suspect that the £1k per unit cost is allowed for if you install many hundreds in one go, not a few here and there. In addition, the slow level of charging they provide (assuming they work at all or correctly when used [a growing problem with public chargers, I hear]) will not provide much charge for those needing to go on a longer journey.

2. The induction tech is very expensive, and I certainly wouldn't want to walk over one with an induction-tech mobile phone in my pocket. Road-borne ones would also be very susceptible to damage from vehicles and could only be installed in low speed locations, e.g. car parks or 20mph zones, as you imagine accelerating or overtaking (pulling out to) and having to drive over one of these things protunding from the road - very dangerous.

Even if they were to be flush with the road, adding them in, like big manholes everywhere, would also inttorduce yet more weak points in the road surface, which would break up more readily along the joins during wet/icy/snowy weather, again costing yet more moeny to fix, and could lead to more damager of both the road an units if not fixed immediately.

3. The other types are just variations on the first and have similar issues, plus the expense of building or converting and maintaining them, including damage from vandalism/improper use.

I'm not trying to be Mr Glass-half-empty here, but we need to be realistic, including as regards the electricity generation issue, especially in the long darker, colder nights half the year when 'green' electricity generation levels are very low because of their inherrant weaknesses in that time of year (little sun, cold, wind in winter blows far less, wind in autumn and spring very variable and often too strong).

I think that we shouldn't just see EVs etc as an issue on their own, but in the round with others such as over-population (and rapid incresaes in) and the huge problems they cause generally, but specifically regarding energy usage, housing and transportation, as well as the increasing distance many of the population have to live from where they work as a result of these issues and others.

We should be looking at demand for energy and transport as much as 'sticking plaster' efforts to reduce pollution, especially when quite often all we are doing is moving it from urban areas to the countryside and coastal areas where power stations are located - which is unfair to locals, given it's the urban people that are causing most of these problems.

We should not be jumping on 'virtuous bandwagons' because ill-informed politicians, lobby groups for firms making/using the tech (to boost profits any way possible) 'environmental activists' (more liley these days to be pseudo politicians by another name) and (yes) civil servants want us to, just as we were 'encouraged' to all buy diesel cars back around the turn of the century depsite there already being credible science out there that showed the significant detrimental health effects of particulate emissions from diesel vehicles and poor suitability to urban usage generally.

I especially do not trust journalists on this, because the vast majority ARE journalists because they aren't any good at academic subjects and some obviously are writing articles with a political agenda in mind (I also have regularly picked apart the so-called 'science correspondents' in the Telegraph for their lack of knowledge and naive views, so I'm not doing so for just purely right-of-centre political reasons).

Sadly, too many scientists and (worse still) more engineers than used to be the case are jumping on the bandwagon rather than taking a long, dispationate view about all this tech and issues, often because it suits their own political agenda.

Jus' sayin'.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 23/11/2019 at 11:54

Exactly. The 2030 stuff/Green New Deal advocated by the Green Party, Labour (well, it depedns on who's speaking and the day of the week at present) and in the US nutty Marxists like AOC and her 'squad' from the nuLefty 'Democrats' is really (AOC even admitted this herself) is just a cover-up to get her hardline Marxist agenda on the statue book, and nothing more - most if not all of the 'green stuff' in there is meaningles twaddle with no scientific basis.

Lots of negative vibes on here for which their is some justification, but there are things that could be done. I think the Green Party are hugely naive in their 2030 goal of carbon neutral - even over 20 years it will involve material changes to infrastructure, expectations and behaviours.

1. Although there are days when wind and sun are limited, PV will continue to generate at 15-20% efficiency. No wind does = no power
2. No account is taken of tidal schemes - if we are serious about CO2 we need to sacrifice a bit of wildlife, build the Severn barrage and other smaller local schemes
3. We need to ensure all new developments - housing and commercial - are built to optimum standard of energy efficiency, not what building companies think they can get away with.
4. These developments should also be cabled and powered for EVs. Incorporating this in the build would be a fraction of the cost of upgrading post completion
5. We need to make it easy for people to move home if they move job rather than extend their commute. Carrots - eliminate stamp duty, no VAT on legal and other fees, school places available, etc. Sticks - tolls on roads during rush hours.
6. Tax all new petrol/diesel cars - subsidise EVs to make them financially viable
7. Smaller more local schools to reduce school run congestion and travel.. Teachers to travel between sites for less popular subjects.
8. Local smaller hospitals to do routine work - regional centres only for highly specialised care.
9. VAT free energy saving home improvements.
10. Increased taxes on energy actually used to pay for the above.

All these rely upon a high level of confidence that:

• carbon (CO2, methane etc) is responsible for damaging climate change
• overall energy consumption needs to be massively reduced so nuclear and green sources can generate the output required
• that EVs are part of a solution that minimises in town pollution
• that EVs can enable zero carbon in a way the petrol/diesel cannot

Lets all go back to living in caves and using candles of animal fat, and dying in the winter.

Lets all go back to living in caves and using candles of animal fat, and dying in the winter.

This is precisely what will happen if we either:

• immediately go zero carbon without putting in the infrastructure first
• what will slowly happen to most of us (or children, grandchildren, great...) over time if we continue to consume as we currently do.

Being mid 60s with good pension means I could carry on over consuming with no personal consequences of our failure to plan. I will probably be long gone before keeping warm, fed, clothed, housed etc becomes a personal problem.

If you don't believe the threats of climate change, pollution, war and disease are credible, carry on as normal. But future generations will suffer the consequences if you are wrong.

So doing something to mitigate the risk now is similar to an each way bet - in my view a good strategy which gives the best prospect of not having to resort to caves, animal fats, decaying water, sewage and power infrastructures etc.

Mid 60's myself and totally agree with the above.

Whilst the recent change in global temperatures that have resulted in the melting of the ice caps may be just a blip totally unconnected to human activities it is totally crazy to carry on as we have been doing and simply bury our heads in the sand. If we take action now what have we got to loose, tha's right absolutely nothing. We may be too late but that is no excuse to simply carry on.

There will always be detractors to what seems obvious to most people with the ability to see what has been happening, just look at the idiot in the Whitehouse. But one idiot should not stop action now which is what is required.

Sacking the "Air Miles Prince" in the Palace is a good start!!

Simple actions:

Bottle and can recycling.. money back systems as in other parts of Europe..

Plastic packaging tax: 25% of value of all packaging used.. Used to fiance a refund system for consumers to return packaging.. (cost neutral to average consumers).

Ditto carbboard.

Stop EV subsidies for all cars with List Price >? £30k.. And scaled down so the lower priced an EV and based on range is, the higher the subsidy..

Tax airline fulel. And tankering of fuel into the UK carries a treble charge - to prevent flying into UK and leaving using cheap fueil.

Stop ALL building on flood [lains.

Dredge rivers. Abolish Enevironment Agency. Devolve to County Councils.. And fund based on audited results for each county. So no actions = no money.. (The EA is absolutley us on flood defence etc) All monies ringfenced..

And so on.

Introduce targetted systems which encourage good behaviour and penalise heavily bad.. So developers cutting down any tree face a cost of (say £10k per tree and the requirement to plant five more.. penalty for not doing so .. £25k per tree.

Any supermarkje'shopt selling food either contaminated/ not as described/ illegal faces hugfe fines - to encourage them to ensure their suppliers are meenting envirnomental standards And each subsequent conviction results in fines doubling each time..

We have to encourage business to do the right thing.. SO ensusure those who don't pay for it..

And a carbon tax on imported fodo milas..apparently Tesco buy chicken formThailand - apprently standards higher than many UK farmers...

And finally take away food.

EVERY takeaway outlet has to use packkaging with its name on it. And each item found dumped on the road etc etc will acry an automatic £5 fine for the outlet chain..Fines dounble after teh first 500i a year... Don;t use packaging with your name on? Closure of that outlet permanently.

Apologies : suing 5 year old glasses.. normal ones broken..

Edited by madf on 24/11/2019 at 19:15

Simple actions:

EVERY takeaway outlet has to use packkaging with its name on it. And each item found dumped on the road etc etc will acry an automatic £5 fine for the outlet chain..Fines dounble after teh first 500i a year... Don;t use packaging with your name on? Closure of that outlet permanently.

I do like quite a few of your ideas and they make good sense but this one is ridiculous - it's the person dropping it causing the issue not the takeaway - that would just encourage some people to drop more on the floor.

A better way would be to make all food packaging compostible, so that if it's dropped somewhere it will decompose regardless. You're never going to stop some half wits from dropping rubbish, so it would be a failsafe approach.

Unfortunately most of the 'suggestions' by politicians (mainly on the far left-hand side of the political aisle) are plain daft and often (AOC & Co in US and quite a bit of the Corbynite/Green Party policy) really about their political ideology than sensible, credible ideas that won't bankrupt the nation/whole world or do very little.

Ordinary people likel ourselves often come up with far better ideas, especially as we have less of a political agenda to force on us all or to make us lots of money if we owned a 'green tech' firm. A Pity none of these groupings listen to us. And they wonder why more and people are turning away from politicians and the MSM.

and within a budget will never be an easy task.

made worse by the fact that certain sums promised to assist certain groups are not actually extra, its merely partly making up for the loss of cash that should have been given years ago, which means to catch up they need to put a lot more in, which they wont do, but are experts at making it sound like they are giving a fortune away

and to think they may get back in again and continue the same old story, but everyone loves it?

Ordinary people likel ourselves often come up with far better ideas, especially as we have less of a political agenda to force on us all or to make us lots of money if we owned a 'green tech' firm. A Pity none of these groupings listen to us. And they wonder why more and people are turning away from politicians and the MSM.

An idea is just an idea though - you need a full solution to the problem - one that can be properly costed and will actually do everything it sets out to do and keeps as many people as happy as possible - easier said than done. The government/MPs do get a very bad rep for things but managing how the country runs and trying to get things working properly and within a budget will never be an easy task.

Here in the UK you always get into politics a dn try and get these ideas going - even starting out as a local Councillor but I would think it a thankless task for many as you will never please everyone and always have people moaning about how useless you are.

I already am - I am one of about 8 or so vounteer residents living on my (private) development who essentially are unpaid 'councillors' on the Residents Association, ensuring it is looked after properly.

As regards becoming (running) a town or district councillor, sorry, but none of the local poilitical parties are any good adn are very cliquey (hence why so makny people are turned away from such things and are distrustful of all of them), so pointless joining. Being an honest person with integrity gets you sidelined these days, meaning you have no influence over anything.

This wouldn't be so bad had it not been for most of the general public to not bother with local politics/council works unless it directly affects them. Being an independent mean you have no influence - you either stay like that (often for years, assuming people don't just get bored and go back to the mainstream parties, especially when elections coicide with national ones) or you severely compormise your values and do grubby deals behind closed doors in order to get 'power'

Often its little more than a title or a meaningless position plus some £££ for something anyone with two braincells could do (which says a LOT about the quality of people who work for councils, mainly the bureaucrats, and the other councillors). And you get little to no thanks when things do go right, and all the blame when things (often) don't, even though its the incompetents you are forced to work with (and can't sack) that are mostly at fault.

Believe me, I KNOW what it's like - I've been a 'resident director' for over 10 years now, and I'm thinking of jacking it in and moving away because it's a thankless task and most other people don't care two hoots most of the time, never mind (despite being politely informed) what the role involves.

Other directors often shut down good ideas because it means them then having to do some actual work for once and especially having to take responsibility for decisions and their consequences, often because they involve short-to-medium term pain (not that much) for large long term gains. It's amazing how this sort of attitude is replciated all the way up the chain in politics. People want quick, cheap fixes which are mostly sticking plaster jobs which rarely work long term, often making the situation far worse, and again, egos won't let good ideas come to fruition because others don't like they are shown up as ineffectual, incompetent, lazy or corrupt.

Ditto for me in many ways - we can collectively make huge gains in terms of redcude electricity and gas usage, and the same with ordinary fossil fuel usage for cars. It's often laziness and convenience these days that has lead to the over-use of energy, not just large increases in the population.

The number of people I see popping out to the shops by car when it would take them 5-10 minutes to walk it (even when the weather's ok), people drop litter because they think the council 'employs' someone to pick it up, forgetting the damage it can do (especially plastics) to the environment, especially over the longer term.

Recycling is a good thing, but what happened to re-using? Some people now treat the 'bag for life' bags from supermarkets like the 'use-once' type, which, BTW, I re-use until they start to break apart. If people took better care of things, bought sensibly at the right time, they can save a fortune on living costs and reduce their carbon footprint/pollution significantly.

Just a bit of thought can help in small ways here and there, adding up to huge gains overall if we all did similar things (which don't negatively impact us).

This link shows what the national grid is doing....

gridwatch.co.uk/

6% coal - bad day for emissions.