Ah but you've overlooked the important point, that dead cyclist or pedestrian will automatically be held blameless because you should have avoided them, that's how it works these days, so they'll be a vindicated victim vegetable or corpse and presumably in some demented mindset feel justified, we are approaching peak lunacy in this country.

In the same way that economists keep saying that peak oil is always 10 years in the future, whenever I think we’ve gone past peak lunacy, someone comes along to prove me wrong. If the Brexit farce is not peak lunacy, then God preserve us from whatever idiocy awaits us in the future. Comrade Corbyn or Jacob Rees Mogg (aka the right honourable member for the nineteenth century) becoming Prime Minister is my prediction.

Out yesterday in the Caterham and was behind a line of cyclists who were 4 across the road (thought 2 was the limit) doing little more than walking pace. When the first car tried to pass them they forced it into the path of an oncoming car forcing both cars to stop.

One thing is certain, if those cars had collided a number of the cyclists would have been involved and it would not have been a good outcome for them.

Highway Code Rule 66 says you should never ride more than two abreast. Should is advice not law where word used is must.

Given they were in a group I'd wager that they'd have left a walker for dead; nearer 20mph than walking pace.

If there was an oncoming car why try to pass them at all? Would it kill to wait a few seconds (or a minute for that matter) until an overtake is safe.

On the one hand you're quite right about outcomes. On the other using a group to nip a dangerous overtake in the bud actually reduces the risk of a bad outcome. .

I don’t know the details of this situation, but in general it’s impossible to overtake a bike with oncoming cars if you leave enough room between you and the bikelist. All too often people squeeze by, often at high speed, forgetting about turbulence at the side of the car, and the poor state of the road. Cyclists in large groups can be a menace, but you have to play safe. I think some of them purposefully dominate the road. We have races on a dual carriageway near us, it removes one lane from car use, but they do it at weekends and they are safe.

<< On the one hand you're quite right about outcomes. On the other using a group to nip a dangerous overtake in the bud actually reduces the risk of a bad outcome. >>

I haven't cycled for many years but when I did, if I thought a possibly dangerous overtake was imminent, I would signal to the driver, not try to occupy the centre of the road. The sightlines of a cyclist are obviously better than a Caterham driver on an undulating road.

I also remember being at the local hospital having an x ray and being told we try to keep this area free on a Wednesday as the local biker meet up usually keeps us busy.

Is that because a high likelihood of RTAs, or the result of fights breaking out involving bikers?

<< Tell that to the driver stuck behind a group of slow-moving, inconsiderate cyclists (who don't pull over for a few seconds to let fast vehicles to pass, but delaying them by several minutes) for miles on end down a rural road ... >>

I don't need to, I'm a driver as well, and I get frustrated like anyone else. But it's just a consequence of many people wanting to use the same road, on different modes of transport. A horse rider or a slow tractor is equally awkward, but all have equal rights on the road - which, as you suggest, should not be abused.

I think the main difference is that horse riders and farm workers driving tractors are more considerate, often pulling over at lay-bys or waving people through when they can see further up the road (although that can be dangerous to rely on).

There are also far less of them, which means they don't hold people up that often. Many more cyclists on our roads these days, especially thanks to our continued success in that sport. A shame that a lot of amateurs behave poorly. That, as you say, does not excuse the bad behaviour of motorists, whether it's in response to similar from cyclists or other road users, especially when vehicles are used to bully and even threaten cyclists.

I myself have been driven at by car drivers, one because he was blocking a single lane road in a car park and I waved at him (polietley) and asked if he would move to let me pass. I broke my bike's wheel advoiding him hitting me. As I said, no side is blameless.

<< Tell that to the driver stuck behind a group of slow-moving, inconsiderate cyclists (who don't pull over for a few seconds to let fast vehicles to pass, but delaying them by several minutes) for miles on end down a rural road ... >>

I don't need to, I'm a driver as well, and I get frustrated like anyone else. But it's just a consequence of many people wanting to use the same road, on different modes of transport. A horse rider or a slow tractor is equally awkward, but all have equal rights on the road - which, as you suggest, should not be abused.

Horses don’t use busy winding roads at rush hour, and tractors do a decent but not fast speed. Plus we need farmers as we need food. We don’t need selfish people to use bikes instead of cars for commuting, with drivers going at 5 mph for many miles. Of course they have a right to cycle, just as I have a right to highlight their thoughtless inconsiderate behaviour. And yes I abhor anyone who in any way endangers cyclists and they should be arrested. I used to cycle, but along non busy countryside roads. As for bikes reducing congestion, what utter rot.

<< Horses don’t use busy winding roads at rush hour, and tractors do a decent but not fast speed. Plus we need farmers as we need food. We don’t need selfish people to use bikes instead of cars for commuting, with drivers going at 5 mph for many miles. Of course they have a right to cycle, just as I have a right to highlight their thoughtless inconsiderate behaviour. And yes I abhor anyone who in any way endangers cyclists and they should be arrested. I used to cycle, but along non busy countryside roads. As for bikes reducing congestion, what utter rot. >>

This stuff isn't worthy of comment. It just sounds like a modern-day Mr.Toad.

Nope. I think you’ll find most people are annoyed by rush hour cyclists on narrow winding roads who create tail backs.

<< I think you’ll find most people are annoyed by rush hour cyclists on narrow winding roads who create tail backs >>

Of course they are. But the cyclists do not set out to deliberately 'create tailbacks', it arises from the number and speed of the road users, and the width of the road. Those cyclists may be beneficial in not adding to the pollution caused by the cars. Unless you can argue successfully that slower road users should be banned to make life easier for the rest, I should just learn to live with it.

It’s pure selfishness and lack of concern for their impact on others. As for reduction of pollution, the long tailbacks suggest otherwise.

<< I think you’ll find most people are annoyed by rush hour cyclists on narrow winding roads who create tail backs >>

Of course they are. But the cyclists do not set out to deliberately 'create tailbacks', it arises from the number and speed of the road users, and the width of the road. Those cyclists may be beneficial in not adding to the pollution caused by the cars. Unless you can argue successfully that slower road users should be banned to make life easier for the rest, I should just learn to live with it.

I agree with Leif on this - think of it this way - what would a cyclist do if a load of ramblers or people on horseback took up the entire width of the carriageway on their side and for several metres down the road, moving at very slow speed (well below normal cycling speed), even on downhill sections, but the cyclist couldn't see round sufficiently to overtake? And that this continued on for, say 2 miles or more?

The number of times I've seen cyclists not look over their shoulders to see what's behind in this regard shows how poor a cyclist they are, never mind inconsiderate. I believe that being a considerate road user is in the Highway Code as well. When I cycle, all doing so and letting vehicles past just dealys me by a minute at most. Hardly much of an inconvenience, especially when the result is happier drivers and less pollution overall.

Inconsiderate cyclists are, in my view, no different to having a bloke with a red flag walking in front of your car. Doing so creates a LOT of pollution. All it takes for the cyclist(s) to be considerate is to occasionally pull in to a layby etc for a few seconds to let the traffic behind pass. As I said, that's what farm workers mostly do. Just because cycles came before cars, doesn't mean they own the road - they deserve some consideration, but so do motorists.

A bit of consideration and give and take from both sides wouldn't go amiss.

A bit of consideration and give and take from both sides wouldn't go amiss.

Steady on AE, this could be another unanswerable question about which is the more entitled special interest or minority group, where it'll be the majority who are from nether camp but who simply go to work and pay for everything get the blame, usual UK solution.

The country is now overcrowded and its going to get a hell of a lot worse because no one is going to stop further population increase, whichever group feels more entitled at any given time we're all going to just have to get along together and make allowances for each other.

Noone is more entitled. As someone said, farm vehicles often pull over for a minute. Yes the country is overcrowded, in part because so many people are in the south east, and in part because we are twice as densely populated as some countries such as France. And the modern culture of changing jobs every few years, and commuting many miles, doesn’t help.

<< I think you’ll find most people are annoyed by rush hour cyclists on narrow winding roads who create tail backs >>

Of course they are. But the cyclists do not set out to deliberately 'create tailbacks', it arises from the number and speed of the road users, and the width of the road. Those cyclists may be beneficial in not adding to the pollution caused by the cars. Unless you can argue successfully that slower road users should be banned to make life easier for the rest, I should just learn to live with it.

Here's why (as someone who has ofetn worked in city areas, particularly London, and have seen the worst of cyclists) I don't hold all other cyclists in high regard:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/09/10/watch-cyclist-.../

I personally witness a very similar incident whilst I was at Univeristy when a cycle courier, cycling the wrong way down Tottenham Court Road, did exactly the same, smashed at speed into a pedestrain crossing at a set of traffic lights crossing, knocking them down, then swearing at the person and everyone else before cycling away, even when the person lay injured IN THE ROAD with traffic coming towards them.

Cyclists aren't all like this, nor are pedestrians or other road users, but we must recognise no group has entirely clean hands. This sort of incident (though without the head-butting) I have seen numerous time in London, as I have with swarms of cyclists hogging the entire width of the road, as well as car, van and HGV drivers trying to knock otherwise innocent cyclists off because they delayed them by a few seconds.