Hello.

Thanks everyone for your reply.

The invoice just says shell helix AG 5w30. When I emailed Honda Mansfield to ask what oil they are using in servicing my car the reply was "we use shell helix HX7AF 5w30". Yes AF.

So that doesn't match the invoice that just says AG. So not sure if it's the ultra or hx7 or professional or what.

It kinda matters cos on sort is synth and one type is semi. And now I'm worried about if it was c2 or c3.

You would think a main dealer would put the right stuff in. A modern engine with a dpf is not something you can mess about with.

Well it's due a service end of next month so I might buy the oil myself then i know it's right.just need to decide on castrol or Mobil

Hello forum

I have had a reply back from Honda Mansfield.....

Good Afternoon Kris,

So I have had confirmed that for all vehicles fitted with DPF's we would use Shell Helix Ultra AG (Professional)

the only Oil we use Helix Ultra AG Professional, this is also a low ash oil designed for DPF.

I have attached Shell Helix spec sheet for you and also a picture of the tank in our workshop stating the oil.

Who knew oil can/could be so difficult. I hope this helps and you can get the oil needed.

So now that's all ironed out, they put the good stuff in the engine which makes me happy

On the invoice it just says shell helix AG 5w30. No mention of hx7 or ultra.

Then when I emailed to ask the first reply she said shell helix HX7AF 5w30.

Then when I queried it and explained my worries about synthetic and c2/c3 ratings she then emailed saying they use shell helix professional AG 5w30 with photo to show the container I suppose the AG matches the invoice. But like say photo proves nothing just got to trust their word.

So the question is now is the shell helix ultra professional AG the right stuff. Can it be bettered? Castrol? Mobil?

I found that when using 0-30 Castrol Edge in the Honda 2.2 Cdti diesel in my 07 Civic, it would use a little oil, enough to drop the dipstick level about 6mm in about 6k miles, with 5-30 there was no discernable oil use over the same distance.

It occurs to me that a company with a persistent fuel dilution problem (Lets call it, oooh..., for the sake argument...HONDA) could make it apparently go away by specifying a skinnier oil that gets burnt more.

As you gain fuel you lose oil and the dipstick stays the same.

I do love a good conspiracy theory.

It occurs to me that a company with a persistent fuel dilution problem (Lets call it, oooh..., for the sake argument...HONDA) could make it apparently go away by specifying a skinnier oil that gets burnt more.

As you gain fuel you lose oil and the dipstick stays the same.

I do love a good conspiracy theory.

I guess you dont like Honda then lol.

Let me guess your a VW Audi or BMW man

Honda might have too much technical integrity to pull something like that deliberately, though it might occur as "collateral benefit" of skinnier oil

Volkswagen, OTOH.....

It occurs to me that a company with a persistent fuel dilution problem (Lets call it, oooh..., for the sake argument...HONDA) could make it apparently go away by specifying a skinnier oil that gets burnt more.

As you gain fuel you lose oil and the dipstick stays the same.

I do love a good conspiracy theory.

My Jazz uses 0w-20 oil and burns none and uses none..As for oil dilution...it's a petrol engine..

Conspiracy theories are usually espoused by illogical thinkers.

Right,

So your Jazz proves the complete lack of oil dilution in ALL Honda's, and petrol engines don''t...no wait...CANNOT....apparently.....;suffer from oil dilution....because.....????.....can't imagine......but whatever your reason, you must THINK its very logical.

I've had two Honda's. They were both great.....

This proves that I've two Honda's and they were, IMO, both great.

That's it.

No conspiracy theory applies to Honda engines. They do not suffer oil dilution problems in my experience.

Not mine either and I`ve owned more than a few over the years, and not heard of one blow up without severe lack of oil( owners fault), like Toyota they go on forever

and as far as I am aware they have an overfill system that burns excess oil off

No conspiracy theory applies to Honda engines. They do not suffer oil dilution problems in my experience.

Not mine either and I`ve owned more than a few over the years, and not heard of one blow up without severe lack of oil( owners fault), like Toyota they go on forever

and as far as I am aware they have an overfill system that burns excess oil off

Ah, now we are getting somewhere. THREE "In my experiences" and one "as far as I am aware", based on maybe as many as 20 cars and who knows how many fully analytical looks at the dipstick.

So this must be pure fiction then

http://www.hondaproblems.com/oil-dilution/'

Funny, I thought this was

"they have an overfill system that burns excess oil off

but thats only because "as far as i am aware" I've never heard of it.

I suppose you could get a dpf regeneration system to do that, though it doesn't seem a great idea and that'd only apply to recent diesels, rather than the blanket comments above.

I see you mean the new engine, which I thought you were talking about the older engines.

I read about it last year, and I gathered that most problems were due to driving round the corner and back, ie a few hundred yards to shop and back on a regular basis, which older cars (not just Honda)had the same problem

the vapour is not being burnt off and instead washing the oil back into the sump because it not being driven enough, but have heard the same thing occurring on other cars for the same reason, so maybe people are not being told to do this or they don't read the manual? (so whats new)

Isn't that why short journey routines have always come under arduous or harsh usage, where the now quite ridiculous oil change intervals of modern vehicles is sensibly ignored, doubly so with the small sump capacities of modern engines.

HJ's common sense argument of annual changes or 10k whichever comes sooner is as good a regime as any, me? twice a year on my car with semi synth.

I keep being told I`m ridiculous in telling short journey drivers to service around 6k mark as they used to in the 70s, most motors then were 6k oil change only, not oil filter as well, which on turbos was 6k oil and filter

apart from my warranty car I will go back to 6k oil filter change even though Honda do not agree!

but do remember cars back then had the same problems due to people driving to shops doctors hospital anywhere local and engine never got up to normal temp, not that they accepted the reason for there problems but there you go

Edited by bolt on 11/08/2019 at 18:31

Honda’s story is it’s a short-trip-in-the-cold problem, but a lot of owners, many of them in California with oil analysis support, seem to disagree.

Its not clear that the dilution accelerates wear significantly, but starting with 0W20, per Honda US recommendation, seems like a bad idea.

The specific issue above is suggested to be a boosted direct injection problem, (leading to high fuel blow-by in combination with low ring tension, which is used for lower friction/higher fuel economy) and may also be partly a result of the engine management system protectively injecting excess fuel in response to actual or potential LSPI (Low Speed Pre Ignition)

Suggested work-arounds include thicker oil, higher octane fuel, avoiding lugging the engine, and avoiding short-trips-in-the-cold.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4989138/honda-cr-v-oil-dilution-only-a-tiny-fraction-of-incidents

https://www.10thcivicforum.com/forum/169-2016-honda-civic-problems-issues/

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4557173/Fighting_fuel_dilution:_Honda_

So part of the problem could be not using the revs which Honda engines like and are designed for, its partly the owners who (as I`ve seen before and driven behind) like to pootle along doing very low speed in high gears which puts an excessive load on the engine

I`m not making excuses as to why Honda cannot be blamed as I have no idea how the cars are driven, but it doesn't appear to be that bad a problem, I think (maybe wrong) the oil burning was a worse problem on the older Diesel 2.2 not too sure on that though

I do find the way this thread has developed a bit - dare I say it? - anal.

The original question was asking what the best "oil brand" for the OP's car was. My answer would be: forget the brand - just find out what the oil specification is supposed to be and buy the cheapest oil that fits the spec.

Does anything else really matter?

I know thread drift happens and I'm not really concerned about that. It was the way this one had drifted that I found bizarre.

I know thread drift happens and I'm not really concerned about that. It was the way this one had drifted that I found bizarre.

Yes I know, I agree, but you do get em occasionally- bizarre

Phooey.

OP wanted to know the "best oil"". That's an unanswerable question, but its of interest to the OP, and a discussion of various oil characteristics and possible criteria follows naturally from it.

If its not of interest to you, don't read it.

but do remember cars back then had the same problems due to people driving to shops doctors hospital anywhere local and engine never got up to normal temp, not that they accepted the reason for there problems but there you go

Not sure when "back then" was, but, assuming its a while ago, those cars would probably be running thickish stuff like 20W50 (I still do while I can get it) and using a choke for cold starts (I use butane), which is supposed to use more petrol than fuel injection enrichment, (though I dunno how that is controlled.)

And yet I don't remember my oil climbing the dipstick, and I lived in Edinburgh and Aberdeen, where coldish starts were quite common, and I hadn't thought of the butane trick then.

Progress?

Going back to the 70s this problem, if your getting fuel wash the oil used will not matter only in that it takes a bit longer to wash thicker oil away so regardless what you use petrol still washes oil away

fuel injection is controlled by the ecu as is the timing, the ecu is told what the temperature is and controls the injector solenoid which controls the amount of fuel being injected into the bore ie the more fuel needed the longer the injector stays open, there is more to it than that but that's the way it works

a carb will still give an enriched mixture on startup if the temp is low unless the temp control is bypassed to the carb, though some were water temp controlled

Its quite simple like others have stated.

USE OIL TO THE SPEC DETAILED IN THE HANDBOOK/SERVICE BOOK.

BRAND DOES NOT MATTER BUT FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR OWN SANITY GO FOR ONE FROM A REPUTABLE SELLER/BRAND. (I am quite happy as an example using Asda oil - the shape of the container suggests its rebranded Millers).

With modern fuel injected cars potential issues caused by incorrect use of the choke no longer exist. Modern cars start with no need for spray in snake oils, in truth how would you get such a spray into a modern induction system.

STOP OVERTHINKING WHAT OIL TO USE. THE ANSWER IS IN THE HANDBOOK.

The lunatics are taking over the asylum, actually I think 2 of them think they are well and truly in charge.

I despair. Amatuers quoting oopinions as facts...

Know what you mean, though your comment would be better supported by a quote, otherwise it just looks like one of those snide, unspecified put-downs that this forum sadlly sometimes features.

Here’s a possible candidate

“Engines are designed to run on a certain grade that varies with climate to some degree. Put in a thicker grade and not only will that put extra stresses on ageing components such as the oil pump but it will also take longer to circulate to the top of the engine accelerating wear to components such as cams and followers.

Its a bodge that may have worked in the 60's with old clockwork engines but the OP's engine is a modern unit that is designed for modern thinner but better lubricating oils.

Without evidence that's opinion, even if it is received opinion.

Here's another

"My Jazz uses 0w-20 oil and burns none and uses none..As for oil dilution...it's a petrol engine.."

Without evidence from oil analysis, even that iis an opinion (The first bit. I don't understand the "petrol engine" bit.)

Edited by edlithgow on 15/08/2019 at 03:08

OK The OP asked what was the best brand and we explained why that was an unanswerable question (NO ONE KNOWS / IT DOESN’T MATTER)

The OP was confused by the difference in Honda's recommended 0W30 and the 5W30 that his garage used, and thought they might have used unsuitable oil.

We established that was unlikely to be the case.

Unlike a difference in brands, the difference between 0W30 and the 5W30 may be real and detectable, and people noted two differences (cost and oil consumption) in the discussion. I dunno how wide an oil viscosity spread is allowed (as opposed to recommended) by Honda (I had a quick search for owners manuals but they were all 0W20 and from the spelling probably aimed at the US market.) Note that difference from European recommendations all you “The handbook is Holy Wriit”Jihadists.

Mention of some current lubrication issues was condemned as Honda Heresy in the court of received opinion, and now the usual suspects are doing their thing.

I think my work here is done.

Enjoy your car OP, and keep an eye on the dipstick.

You might be interested in “The blotter spot test”(Google it) which is claimed to detect fuel dilution, though I dunno how sensitive it is