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Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - Mark EH

I have a Renault 2.5 d Master year 2000, and have experienced a loss of power and lots of smoke.

The problem is that the engine oil is getting into the fuel supply, i have lost over 1 ltr

I verified the problem by removingthe fuel filter (its black and oily ).

Can anyone give me any pointers as to where to look for the problem

Thanks in advance

Mark

Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - edlithgow

Thats odd.

Diesels (at least old Perkins ones, which is all I've had) have low pressure return fuel lines from the engine to the tank, for excess fuel to bleed back.

Dont know that engine but my best guess would be leakage of oil from the hydralic pressure side of the injector to the fuel side, or perhaps the engine has an oil-fuel heat exchanger to preheat the fuel, which is leaking.

A start might be to confirm oil in the fuel return line, which may only be flexible hose since its low pressure.

Beyond that it MIGHT be worth checking injector function. On old engines you could do this just by sucessively cracking the junctions to the injectors on a running engine, but I'd guess procedures are more elaborate on a common-rail with maybe special caps required.

High pressure diesel spray can kill you.

Edited by edlithgow on 21/01/2019 at 00:20

Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - edlithgow

A cracked or otherwise leaking injector might still work, but it may drain back fuel on standing, which might mean it takes more cranking to fire.

This might be diagnostic IF you can separate it from the background noise of the other cylinders.

Visible whisps of atomised fuel are apparently (no experience, since I didn't have any real trouble with my Perkins) another diagnostic possibility.

Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - Mark EH

Thanks for the reply, some people have suggested injector seals leaking, but I cant see hoe this would lead to oil in fuel.

Thanks

Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - edlithgow

Thanks for the reply, some people have suggested injector seals leaking, but I cant see hoe this would lead to oil in fuel.

Just a "best guess". A good sectional diagram of the injector and associated fuel lines might help to determine if it makes sense.

Some engines (Volvo Penta Marine IIRC) have accessible individual return lines from the injectors,.This would obviously be a help in isolating oil leakage,from that source, but I dunno if that applies to your engine.

Hopefully you'll get more informed reponses

Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - gordonbennet

Common sense says that engine oil could only get into the fuel on the return side, or as suggested above where the fuel passes through some kind of pre heater or pre pump mounted on the engine before it reaches the high pressure pump, where the oil pressure would exceed the fuel pressure.

Failing injector? dunno it would have to be in a right state to be sucking back ( serious misfiring) and unless the cylinder itself was injesting oil via broken rings i still can't see this amount of oil somehow finding itself in the return pipe.

First thing i'd do is siphon some fuel out of the fuel tank itself and see if that's dirty, what i'd be looking for though is bio growth as well as engine oil...that oily reside in the filter is definately oil and not bio growth?

Secondly run the engine and using a small bottle taped in place, feed each injector return pipe in turn into said bottle and see if one of them dirties its fuel, you could also try taking sample of the pre pumped fuel before it reaches the HP injector pump.

Compression testing and plug in diagnostics, if you find no obvious answers, probably best left to a Diesel workshop if you can find such a thing in your area.

As Edlithgow above, take care, HP Diesel pressure is very dangerous, at the very least goggles and mechanics gloves, and be especially careful if you remove any HP pipes.

Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - Peter.N.

I've been messing about with diesels since 1959 and Perkins 4/99 engines but I have never come across this problem before. Are you sure that it is actually engine oil in the fuel, is it black? It will be unless the oil has just been changed.

I can't think of anywhere that the lubrication system can come into contact with the fuel system except perhaps in the case of an engine mounted mechanical lift pump, then the fuel being under pressure would be more likely to flow into the oil

I don't know the Renault engine though I have run many PSA ones. I would be interested to know the outcome.

Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - Mark EH

No itd definately oil in the fuel, the engine lost over 1 ltr in a very short space of time, fuel in tank is black.

Mark

Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - edlithgow

First thing i'd do is siphon some fuel out of the fuel tank itself and see if that's dirty, what i'd be looking for though is bio growth as well as engine oil...that oily reside in the filter is definately oil and not bio growth?

I wondered about bugs, but he says above he's down a litre of oil, which diesel-eaters don't seem to explain.

I suppose that could be a separate problem though.

Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - edlithgow

Sorry, redundant post. Hadn't seen the OP's reply

Renault Master - Oil in Fuel - focussed

I've had a look at various parts diagrams and fiches for this engine. - Assuming that it isn't a common rail engine with just a high pressure pump, there is a possibility that if it uses a rotary distributor pump, either gear or chain driven, that the pump drive shaft seal is leaking.

On a belt driven pump I know they will leak air into the pump from that front seal causing poor running - hard starting etc. On a timing case mounted pump with engine oil in the timing case, crankcase oil and air will be sucked into the pump via the leaking seal. This stacks up with what the OP said about the smoke. Some of the fuel in the pump will get injected and burnt, about 30-50 % of it will get returned to the tank.

The only other suspect area is a fuel lift pump, if it has one.

How you prove this without taking the injection pump off and sending it to a pump shop, I don't know.

Edited by focussed on 24/01/2019 at 18:46