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n/a - Parking at work - sammy1

So local authorities are looking again at taxing drivers to park in the work place. A figure of £20 per week is apparently being considered as a reasonable charge. How do councils expect this to be collected? Is it to be another burden on the employer as I cannot see any other way of collecting the revenue. If you park outside of the employers premises and walk in how does that work? I assume that if you drive a Rolls Royce then you don't have to work!

n/a - Parking at work - catsdad
Some councils do this already. Looking at Nottingham council's website it simply works by levying a charge on the employer for spaces provided. Tbe employer can pass this on to employees, or not, as they wish.

n/a - Parking at work - Avant

One might resent that less - a bit less - if the councils undertook to spend this extra revenue on road maintenance, repairing potholes in particular.

n/a - Parking at work - Engineer Andy

...or spent £Ms on redecs of their councils offices (or even more for new ones) whilst complaining about funding for council services.

n/a - Parking at work - Bromptonaut

...or spent £Ms on redecs of their councils offices (or even more for new ones) whilst complaining about funding for council services.

That's an easy knee-jerk and may perhaps be true in some cases. In plenty of others old buildings, not just those from Victorian era but some built new 40 years ago when Local Government was re-organised are no longer fit for purpose. Slab built monstrosities now expensive to maintain and heat, difficult and expensive to cable for computer power/data and with far too many cellular offices, too little open plan and conversion both expensive and disruptive (asbestos).

New premises built on brownfield site with modern insulation, heating using solar gain to save fuel, flexible cabling for power and data and some letting space for commercial use at street level. Flatten the old site and sell it for housing.

Our DC did exactly that. I work there occasionally on an outreach project and it's an excellent facility.

Probably going to end up wasted but that's because Central Government has visited the sins of the bankrupt County Council on the Districts and decided Unitary Authorities are the answer.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 19/01/2019 at 15:04

n/a - Parking at work - Andrew-T

Presumably it's a last-ditch attempt to add cash to empty coffers. But I can't see many employers paying up willingly, nor their workers, some of whom may avoid it by parking on already-clogged streets. Another unintended consequence.

n/a - Parking at work - Engineer Andy

Most employers will pass it onto their staff, just in a sneaky way - by reducing their pay rises and perks a bit. Very few, IMHO, would pay it out of their own pockets.

n/a - Parking at work - drd63
Most employers can’t just absorb additional costs and taxes, if its a benefit to employees why would they not pass on some or all of the cost. Employers have responsibilities to Employees, Shareholders, Clients etc.
n/a - Parking at work - barney100

Nice little earner, 1K a year from thousands of workers. Some folks are just managing and that extra expense could drive them and their families into debt.

n/a - Parking at work - Westernman
Nottingham Council use the revenue raised from parking charges for employers to invest in the tram network - thus providing an alternative means of commuting for many people.

About 40% of employers in Nottingham pass the charge onto employees. The NHS does not but schools do.
n/a - Parking at work - Miniman777
Nottingham Council use the revenue raised from parking charges for employers to invest in the tram network - thus providing an alternative means of commuting for many people. About 40% of employers in Nottingham pass the charge onto employees. The NHS does not but schools do.

Just to expand a little, the Workplace Parking Levy was applicable to employers with certain area of the city centre who have 11 or more parking spaces for employees - so up to 10 spaces were exempt but needed a licence for 100% discount! It also includes schools and colleges and licences are renewed annually - nice job creation scheme?

This year, employers are being charges £415 per space by the council, so at £8 per week per vehicle, it's not a big deal. The scheme will produce £44m in its initial five years.

The money being raised is to payback the costs of phase 2 of the tram network, however, there are a couple of oddities:

- VAT is not payable by employers to Nottingham City Council on the WPL charge. Any parking charges an employer introduces for its employees are, however, subject to VAT.

- The charge applies to a specific area defined by the council (and it's a big area) and that area includes parts of the city centre NOT served by the tram network, so you might consider that unfair if you work in that area (north east and south east of city centre).

How other cities implement similar schemes remains to be seen, but some may view the Nottingham scheme as a bit of a blunt instrument to encourage public transport use, especially when bus co's are using worn out vehicles of Euro 3 or 4 designation with a high Nox output.

Leicester, for example, has talked about banning all diesel vehicles not meeting Euro 6 standards, which unfortunately would include more that 60% of the city's black cabs. They've also talked about having out of city locations for goods to be delivered then moved on by electric vehicle (a bit like Zermatt).

What also doesn't help is for part time or shift workers who could use train for example, station car parking tends to be overpriced (like the fares) or the car parks full by 08.45 with no alternative/overspill, so there needs to be far better better coordination all round between other modes of transport to encourage widespread use.

n/a - Parking at work - Westernman
Nottingham Council use the revenue raised from parking charges for employers to invest in the tram network - thus providing an alternative means of commuting for many people.

About 40% of employers in Nottingham pass the charge onto employees. The NHS does not but schools do.
n/a - Parking at work - Metropolis.
More big government interfering in our lives, more government is NOT the answer to people’s problems!
n/a - Parking at work - Andrew-T
More big government interfering in our lives, more government is NOT the answer to people’s problems!

Many of these councils are strapped for cash, so they can't provide the services to solve people's problems. They can't win.

n/a - Parking at work - dan86

But why should people pay what is in essence another tax just so they can got tivwork and earn a living?

Maybe if the government hadn't made so many cuts to public services the council's wouldn't be strapped for cash.

n/a - Parking at work - RT

But why should people pay what is in essence another tax just so they can got tivwork and earn a living?

Maybe if the government hadn't made so many cuts to public services the council's wouldn't be strapped for cash.

The government made cuts to public services to avoid taxes going up - if you/we want more money spent on services, we'll have to pay more tax somewhere - so where should the increase be? Income Tax, VAT, fuel duty, etc

n/a - Parking at work - dan86

But why should people pay what is in essence another tax just so they can got tivwork and earn a living?

Maybe if the government hadn't made so many cuts to public services the council's wouldn't be strapped for cash.

The government made cuts to public services to avoid taxes going up - if you/we want more money spent on services, we'll have to pay more tax somewhere - so where should the increase be? Income Tax, VAT, fuel duty, etc

Vat went up to 20% after being reduced to 15% from 17.5% so it doesn't stop them increasing that.

Council tax has gone up to supposedly to cover this shortage yet still have councils going bankrupt or facing it.

n/a - Parking at work - RT

But why should people pay what is in essence another tax just so they can got tivwork and earn a living?

Maybe if the government hadn't made so many cuts to public services the council's wouldn't be strapped for cash.

The government made cuts to public services to avoid taxes going up - if you/we want more money spent on services, we'll have to pay more tax somewhere - so where should the increase be? Income Tax, VAT, fuel duty, etc

Vat went up to 20% after being reduced to 15% from 17.5% so it doesn't stop them increasing that.

Council tax has gone up to supposedly to cover this shortage yet still have councils going bankrupt or facing it.

Right now, taxes aren't high enough for the services we demand - politician are between a rock and a hard place as no-one wants to pay more.

n/a - Parking at work - barney100

Apparently our council has millions invested so strapped for cash they ain't. Thing is house owners and car owners are easy targets but millions go under the radar.

n/a - Parking at work - alan1302

Apparently our council has millions invested so strapped for cash they ain't. Thing is house owners and car owners are easy targets but millions go under the radar.

Does not mean they are not strapped for cash - councils have to have money invested as reserve funds

n/a - Parking at work - Bromptonaut

Does not mean they are not strapped for cash - councils have to have money invested as reserve funds

Spending its reserves is one of the keystones of the case against Northamptonshire Council for having ended up bankrupt.

n/a - Parking at work - Bromptonaut

Let's look at this the other way.

The centres of many of our towns and cities have unacceptable and even dangerous levels of pollution, mostly NOx and particulates. We have to reduce those for public health reasons and to do so requires a change in behaviour; fewer vehicles in town centres and less sitting about idling in jams for those that remain.

How do we drive that behavioural change?

The tax on it's own won't do it because people have, or see themselves as having, no alternative. Public transport needs to be improved vastly so that on main routes it's so frequent the timetable is only relevant for operational purposes (like the London tube). Alternatively/additionally Park and Ride facilities are provided allowing people to do the last mile or two by electric or hybrid bus or by bike - either their own or hire machines.

The tax take should be hypothecated to provision of that service.

n/a - Parking at work - Andrew-T

That's all very cogently and reasonably argued, Bromp. But however good public transport might be, almost every commuter now has his/her own vehicle, which will (a) always be nearer the front door and (b) avoid any need to wait around in nasty weather. Even those who take the train to work very often drive to the station.

Until many people start to see their actions as part of the problem, rather than making an insignificant contribution to it, I don't think matters will change much. Alternatively, find ways to avoid travelling to work at all - teleworking anyone?

n/a - Parking at work - Engineer Andy
More big government interfering in our lives, more government is NOT the answer to people’s problems!

Many of these councils are strapped for cash, so they can't provide the services to solve people's problems. They can't win.

What's the betting that councilgovernment employees (or at least councillors and top officials [the same would be demanded by MPs etc I bet]) would be exempt from the charges?

n/a - Parking at work - Bromptonaut

What's the betting that councilgovernment employees (or at least councillors and top officials [the same would be demanded by MPs etc I bet]) would be exempt from the charges?

What's proposed is a levy on the premises based on number of parking spaces. It would be payable by the owner or occupier of the building. The owner/occupier/employer then has choice as to whether or not to pass it on to those actually using the spaces. Government Departments or Councils would have to make exactly same decision as private sector - bear the cost or pass it on. Would be reasonable for a Council to pass cost on for employees but not for volunteer councillors who would only have to claim it as an expense anyway.

An exemption for the Palace of Westminster would be justified on security grounds.

n/a - Parking at work - Engineer Andy

Why just the total of the number of spaces? What's the difference between a large building with, say 600 employees and 100 car parking spaces and ten smaller buildings of 60 employees each and 6 parking spaces?

Normally, the large building's footprint (including car park) and energy usage is significantly less than that of smaller ones, yet the larger employer has to pay the tax/levy and the smaller ones don't, despite having in total the same number of staff and car parking spaces.

As regards MPs, only ministers and top party leaders need security in the form of an 'official car' (pool cars in that regard could be used for others if and when necessary) and there's no reason why any backbench MP needs a parking space in the UG car park below the HoP given the extensive public transport options open to them.

My point was that in many instances, politicians and some (seemingly more often high-ranking) public sector officials (many of whom are very well paid) argue and get 'freebies' or 'exemptions' such as this when most of those employees who actually need a car as part of their job (but isn't a company car) would likely have to pay somehow.

To me, it's like the top bosses (including in the private sector) always get the best computer, even though 99% of them do little more than use it for emails, the odd Office document and reading pdfs and looking up stuff on the Interweb. They always find a way around taxes like this proposed one, often at the expense of their employees.

A former boss of mine said (during the recession) we all had to take pay cuts; a week or so later he bought himself a new company car which was £20k more than the 3yo one he currently had. Needless to say, this didn't exactly go down well with my colleagues.

My problem with levies/taxes like this is that it hits everyone the same, regardless of (for example) whether they drive a gas-guzzler or a small city car, are local and lazily drive less than 3 mins to work or further away, or (as above) are required by their contact to use the car for work and not just commuting. Same goes for ability to pay and the availablility of viable local public transport (for some, it just isn't an option not having a car). To me, this is no different to the Poll Tax.

All that will happen is that some businesses will not be able to afford it it and will lose staff and even go out of business, others will push staff onto parking on side roads, and especially those without residents only parking and/or viable parking controls. I've seen this a lot locally to me as train car parking prices have shot up over the years (now over £1200 for an annual permit). To me, all this is pushing problems onto those least able to afford to deal with them to get revenue for the public sector via the back door.

n/a - Parking at work - nick62
A former boss of mine said (during the recession) we all had to take pay cuts; a week or so later he bought himself a new company car which was £20k more than the 3yo one he currently had.

You have hit a nerve there, so bear with me on this one, (you can tell I don't bear a grudge). ;-))

I was a site engineer for a company in the late 80's / early 90's. I was based at home and doing about 35,000 miles a year on business. The round-trip to the office every month or so was a 400 mile round-trip. I was supposed to get a new car when I started, but the company also employed a new sales "engineer" on the same day. Although the sales department had a spare car (due to another salesman leaving), their new chap had apparently insisted that he have a new car..................... so I got the two year old Sierra with a knackered gearbox.

After a year in the job, my jalopy was due for renewal under the "new car every three years" policy in place at the time. In the meantime, however, there had been a bit of a downturn in the economy. We had also got a new manager who surprisingly enough had also got a nice new Sierra XR4x4 as his company car, which he drove 10 miles a day to the office and back, but used the train if he ever went to London.

As the three year anniversary approached, nothing was said about my new wheels, so I asked him straight out "what was happening". He said there was no way the business could afford to change my car at this time.................... so I went away quietly. On the second anniversary of him starting at our place, he had another new flashy motor while I still had my 150,000 mile Sierra, (his "old" XR4x4 had only done about 15,000 miles).

I went straight to his office, told him he was a complete ars***** and resigned. It was the best move I ever made!

n/a - Parking at work - Smileyman

Whilst it is unpleasant to be at the receiving end of this new form of taxation there are merits associated with encouraging more travel via public transport ... so the monies raised should be used to ensure a reliable service, comfortable, with good connections, fairly priced and not over crowded to use.

I throw in a couple of uncertainties on my part, if the employer meets the cost will this constitute an employment benefit in kind? If so this will become a taxable matter for both the employee and the employer (think form P11D and Class 1a NI) in the same way as healthcare is a taxable benefit. For higher paid employees the tax will be charged at the higher rate eg 40% (or if lucky enough 45%!). Any sensible employer will investigate a salary sacrifice route for their employees, at least until this loophole is closed.

In answer to Sammy's question about collection, I would expect this to be collected via the business rates, a new line on the bill. I guess some employers may reassign the parking bays to "visitor use only" to reduce liability,an interesting thought.

Edited by Smileyman on 20/01/2019 at 10:29

n/a - Parking at work - Bromptonaut

I throw in a couple of uncertainties on my part, if the employer meets the cost will this constitute an employment benefit in kind? If so this will become a taxable matter for both the employee and the employer (think form P11D and Class 1a NI) in the same way as healthcare is a taxable benefit. For higher paid employees the tax will be charged at the higher rate eg 40% (or if lucky enough 45%!).

Can't see how it can be a BIK; it's a liability of the employer not the employee. Same rules as now, if parking is provided at or near place of work then it's not a benefit. The cost to the employer of providing that parking will rise if the levy is imposed. They may to chose to pass that cost on either directly or, there being less money in pot, by reducing perks or not decreasing pay.

n/a - Parking at work - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

This was a hot topic in the late 1970s iirc. I worked on a remote site in the hills outside of Buxton of 550acres. One bus a day. Most people used their cars. Senior civil service management were against paying for parking. Cars were needed to move around the site for offical purposes. Never happened, but BIK definitely was mentioned for staff.

n/a - Parking at work - nick62

This was a hot topic in the late 1970s iirc. I worked on a remote site in the hills outside of Buxton of 550acres.

HSE labs perchance? I did my EITB first year off the job training at the college just "up the road". Sadly derelict now just in time to coincide with the current (IMHO farcical) apprenticeships!

n/a - Parking at work - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

Yes, but SMRE previously. 1340 foot above sea level and many snowy winters. We were told one winters day that we "had" to walk to work or lose a days leave and get a black mark on our annual staff report. Below freezing and thigh deep snow at one point. We spent most of our time at work defrosting and were sent home again at 2pm iirc.

Never happened again after the realisation that people could have died was impressed on the popular Herr Direktor.

Edited by Glaikit Wee Scunner {P} on 20/01/2019 at 17:59

n/a - Parking at work - nick62

Damn, couldn't recall the previous name. I worked in Buxton for eight years, never missed a day due to bad weather. Had some interesting journeys (some on a motorbike) up and down the A515 (our house was 950' ASL) and got sent home a couple of time though!

n/a - Parking at work - Snakey

How can the council implement such a gestapo-like policy? Charging companies for using their own land sounds ridiculous. Councils should try and concentrate on doing what they're supposed to.

I'm sick of the endless bleating from my council (Durham) about having their funding cut. As it stands they're sitting on reserves of £200m or more, have wasted hundreds of £1000's on ill though out road schemes and are currently planning on building themselves a shiny new headquarters, but as an incumbent labour council they can carry on regardless

n/a - Parking at work - Gibbo_Wirral

Punishing is the wrong way to go about things. If I was given a free or heavily discounted train pass I'd happily leave my car at home more and use the train.

n/a - Parking at work - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

Iirc the ancient proposal was definitely aimed at the staff having a benefit in kind (BIK).

As was explained by a union rep. If the local going rate for a days parking was, say, £10 with a 25% rate of income tax, WE would pay £2.50 per working day. Not our employer.

n/a - Parking at work - Bromptonaut

How can the council implement such a gestapo-like policy? Charging companies for using their own land sounds ridiculous. Councils should try and concentrate on doing what they're supposed to.

I think the gestapo reference engages Godwin's law. Probably not a first here but pretty rare.

Charges of this sort to reduce pollution are exactly what council's are supposed to consider and implement. Same principle as Planning, Smokeless Zones and a hundred and one other ways 'authority' can control use of land or other possessions. So long as they're acting within the scope of laws passed by Parliament and can be challenged there's nothing untoward.

Conjuring up Nazi references is rather silly and, frankly, borderline offensive.

n/a - Parking at work - sammy1

This is NOT a charge to reduce pollution it is a TAX which discriminates the lower paid in only some local authorities and could spread to others. I think most people know where they are with income tax at source. Local gov tax is another tax on your take home money and totally unfair on the lower paid as it is a fixed rate for all regardless. Fixed council tax is more of a burden on £20k than say £40k as would £20 per week on Parking at work be for shop floor V management. Also all other local fixed charges from parking to litter fines are also unfair. The TV licence is another. Local government has been starved of money for far to long now, austerity is supposed to be over. Central government claims to give as low taxation but we are being robbed locally.

n/a - Parking at work - daveyjp
All taxation is just moving chairs on the decks of the Titanic. Look at taxation as a percentage of GDP, in 20 years it has been between 31 and 33%, in 2017 it was 33.3%, the highest in almost 20 years

Local Government has seen crippling cuts, but alongside this a whole new level of Local Government has 'appeared'. Known as Local Economic Partnerships and Combined Authorities they employ thousands and spend millions at the say of Mayors or non elected Councillors.

Do not ever believe Governments are saving taxpayers money by cutting Council budgets. They just collect and spend money in different ways based on political ideologies.
n/a - Parking at work - tourantass
We live near Northwich in Cheshire, they have tried regenerating the town centre by building some really nice shops and multi storey car park, unfortunetly nearly all the units are empty and M&S are now leaving...Now the local labour run council in their infinite wisdom have iintroduced car parking charges in all car parks I suppose they are trying to recoup some money from somewhere..however it will just drive more people away from an already strugling town thats only real attraction was the free parking. But hey ho...what do I know.
n/a - Parking at work - Sulphur Man

In 2018 more people bought goods through their smartphone than visiting a shopping centre.

Building more retail is a route to nowhere. Town centres should be repurposed for what smartphones and the internet cant do - night time enconomy, culture, open attractive shared spaces, less cars. Councils are just going to have to get creative on where they think revenue should come from. Building towns that are attractive for people to live in would be a good start.

n/a - Parking at work - smallcar
That’s simply not true. Don’t conflate a title with actual employees. LEPs employ hardly anyone - they are more akin to a committee of existing people employed by other bodies or even private businesses.

Combined authorities are (and the clue is in their name) a body made up of existing local authorities so there are no new employees in fact many have become combined to save headcount and manage services across a larger region. Quite a few now share a single planning team, write only one local p plan whereas before there would be separate development control planning teams, separately local plan policy teams. Richmond and Wandsworth councils now share this arrangement. Headcounts hve gone down - I know as I know friends who work for them.
n/a - Parking at work - Bromptonaut
All taxation is just moving chairs on the decks of the Titanic. Look at taxation as a percentage of GDP, in 20 years it has been between 31 and 33%, in 2017 it was 33.3%, the highest in almost 20 years Local Government has seen crippling cuts, but alongside this a whole new level of Local Government has 'appeared'. Known as Local Economic Partnerships and Combined Authorities they employ thousands and spend millions at the say of Mayors or non elected Councillors. Do not ever believe Governments are saving taxpayers money by cutting Council budgets. They just collect and spend money in different ways based on political ideologies.

What on earth is a non elected councillor?

Round here combined authorities mean our Council and a neighbouring one sharing resources - for example just one electoral registration office instead of two.

n/a - Parking at work - daveyjp
Combining the functions of local Authorities is not the same as a "Combined Authority".

The Councillors tasked with spending billions of money flushed through Combined Authorities are not elected to their positions by the people they represent.


n/a - Parking at work - Ethan Edwards

Fascinating as this trip through contemporary local government is. The essential facts are Local Government is taking money from certain motorists. For which they are providing an extra...er nothing. The are of course using the money to provide for the....nope. No good cause. It is simply to fund the local government employees shortfall in their pension provisions. Better perks for councillors and whatever frippery de jour takes their fancy. In short its utterly disgraceful. Oh let's add some greenwash about emissions and pollution. Yes that should placate the peasants. Phoney baloney green wash doesn't cut it with some of us.

n/a - Parking at work - expat

If they really want to change people's behaviour they would be better to use a carrot rather than a stick. Better public transport, shared Ubers or other things like that would provide an incentive for people to leave their cars at home and save money and stress.

n/a - Parking at work - Andrew-T

You're a conspiracy theorist, Ethan. Why not get elected and change things - or if you already have been, what are you waiting for?

The public often imagines that as they pay huge taxes, that money should easily pay for all the services they expect to get. Some of those require operatives of whatever kind to be paid for doing (sometimes rather nasty) work which they won't do for peanuts, unfortunately. OK, some sit in nice centrally-heated offices pushing pens or watching Netflix.

But we all like to grumble about some things which we may or may not understand fully.

Edited by Andrew-T on 22/01/2019 at 09:40

n/a - Parking at work - Bromptonaut
Combining the functions of local Authorities is not the same as a "Combined Authority". The Councillors tasked with spending billions of money flushed through Combined Authorities are not elected to their positions by the people they represent.

There's a guide to Combined Authorities here:

www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/com...f

Partiality warning - it's published by the Local Government Association.

Have to admit I'd not heard of them before. Seem to be a way of re-creating the Metropolitan Council's abolished in 1986. Abolished not because they were a bad thing but because their removal made abolishing the GLC look slightly less like the blatantly political act it was. They're set up under statute so not just some trip councils can go off on by themselves. Most but not all have directly elected Mayors.

There's also nothing new or unusual about Joint Committees of nominated councillors running combined services. Regional airports like Leeds Bradford and Manchester were historically run that way. The Traffic Penalties Tribunal still is.

Still, if people want windmills to tilt at who am I to concern them with pesky facts?

n/a - Parking at work - nick62

One of the biggest problems in politics is party ideology trumping basic common sense. One of the worst examples being the privitisation of public utilities and the railways, the latter of which decimated rolling stock manufacture in the UK.

Edited by nick62 on 22/01/2019 at 10:29

n/a - Parking at work - Ethan Edwards

I stand corrected. Cash strapped council's clearly need every penny. My local one has just splurged Seven and a half THOUSAND pounds on a new doormat for their offices. Poor lambs..perhaps we could have a whip round for them. Can I reserve giving the first dozen lashes....

www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17379945.council-defends-.../

n/a - Parking at work - carl233

In my opinion many people in the UK are turkey's voting for Christmas they still feel politics and government can change things the system is so dirty and infested at the higher levels by self serving masonic groups. The public have no idea the scale of corruption. Things will not change based on which party is ''in charge". I am sure they will be the usual cognitive dissonance based comments about conspiracy etc but I see UK politics as a masonic infested filthy cesspit system held up by people that do not have the free mind to see beyond the manipulation.

n/a - Parking at work - drd63
I’m not a member of a political party and definitely not the masons. However you are coming across as rather paranoid and hysterical. The vast majority of people in politics and the public sector are honourable and committed to the public good. We are fortunate to live in a country which, in the main has very high standards in public life with very low levels of corruption.
n/a - Parking at work - Andrew-T

Move to Zimbabwe, anyone ..... ?

n/a - Parking at work - Andrew-T

Cash strapped council's clearly need every penny. My local one has just splurged Seven and a half THOUSAND pounds on a new doormat for their offices.

Do you also blame the NHS for overspending when their drug suppliers create cartels and bump up prices by 100 times? That sounds like private enterprise grabbing taxpayers' money.

n/a - Parking at work - Ethan Edwards

Hmmm life saving wonder drug or a fluffy door mat....tough call.

Wasting our money is endemic in these people. It's indefensible and you know it. But do try.

n/a - Parking at work - Andrew-T

Wasting our money is endemic in these people. It's indefensible and you know it. But do try.

I'm not trying to 'defend' anything - just not being selective. Many of us like to waste money on things which we don't need, but we can't stand the idea of others spending 'our' money on things we wouldn't buy. In other words, making decisions which we see as waste (agreed about the doormat, but I don't know the facts - do you?).

Maybe there was some cash left in the end-of-year budget, which needed to be spent.

n/a - Parking at work - Bromptonaut

Hmmm life saving wonder drug or a fluffy door mat....tough call.

Wasting our money is endemic in these people. It's indefensible and you know it. But do try.

It not a 'door mat' is it? It's a heavy duty commercial floor covering for what looks like a quite large entrance lobby, maintain it properly and it will last for years.

Reported to be a history of slips/trips because floor becomes slippery when water is walked in.

Would you rather they left it and paid out a few hundred thousand in injury claims?

Known risk not addressed and somebody falls badly and suffers a life changing, or even life ending, injury?

No defence.

n/a - Parking at work - Snakey

How can the council implement such a gestapo-like policy? Charging companies for using their own land sounds ridiculous. Councils should try and concentrate on doing what they're supposed to.

I think the gestapo reference engages Godwin's law. Probably not a first here but pretty rare.

Charges of this sort to reduce pollution are exactly what council's are supposed to consider and implement. Same principle as Planning, Smokeless Zones and a hundred and one other ways 'authority' can control use of land or other possessions. So long as they're acting within the scope of laws passed by Parliament and can be challenged there's nothing untoward.

Conjuring up Nazi references is rather silly and, frankly, borderline offensive.

Ho hum, forgot there were rampant pedants on here. That phrase was used to signify the unwavering control councils seem to have these days, but thank you for your patronising reply and rather boring link. I shall make sure every post from now on passes your wikipedia test.

n/a - Parking at work - Avant

It's not a matter of excessive control, but of extreme concern, particularly in the public sector, about being sued.

We might often think 'this is elf 'n' safety gone mad': but this is such a litigious age that people claim for negligence (sometimes via insurers) even when an accident is the vitium's fault. It's particuarly common in schools: whereas previously parents might say 'these things happen' when a child breaks a bone on the sports field, now they will blame the school and see kif they can get some unearned money through the courts.

n/a - Parking at work - Andrew-T

It's particuarly common in schools: whereas previously parents might say 'these things happen' when a child breaks a bone on the sports field, now they will blame the school and see if they can get some unearned money through the courts.

Yes, Avant, and one of the unintended consequences is to curtail the willingness of volunteers to contribute. It's too risky and unnecessarily complicated - apart from the sour taste of not being seen as trustworthy.