sometimes, we get it wrong. But in this thread, and the one about the box junction, there is a real lack of understanding and tolerance. Most cops are people too, and just want to do their best.

So, as that was me in the box junction, where was my lack of understanding? was it a random eye test for a grey haired driver to fill a quota? ,Did they see it properly? Thet were perfectly polite, but what tickles me is that they didn't go for the Audi A6 who hit his horn, swerved and accelerated like a maniac around me and served back in front of me, who was wrong, me observing the law, or the road hog that pased me?

(and I have no objection to being sight checked).

But phone them to tell them a car is being driven uninsured, not mot'd and potentially by a banned/non licence holder and they have no time to deal with it. we and our neighbours have regularly reported the owner of a BMW 3 series 2003 for being uninsured untaxed and unmot'd, but hey ho, till he kills or seriously injures someone, it's nobodies business.

Do as per New york, go for the little stuff and remove them from the road and it'll improve it for everyone. One neighbour is a serving officer, and another lady officer retired after too long on the child sex exploitation squad. Totally traumatised. Give them the resources but cut the politically obsessed stuff.

Many thanks, The Heg, for replying on behalf of the police. I like to think that the majority of people realise that the vast majority of officers do a tough job under a lot of pressure: I've had great respect for the City of London Police ever since I gave lectures on finance to the Fraud Squad, some years ago now.

If you see this, perhaps you can confirm that the suspicion that traffic police in particular have targets to meet in terms of prosecutions is not true. There are a lot of people who think that targets are responsible for apparently trivial bookings, and it would be good to know that decisions on whether to prosecute are made on more justifiable grounds.

You may also be able to tell us if there's any benefit in having elected police commissioners who stand for political parties: i haven't been able to see any benefit myself. In Dorset at the last commissioner election one candidate stood as an independent. I'm delighted to say he got elected.

....... If you want a massive well funded police force dealing with every little annoyance and discomfort, can I suggest China. ........Most cops are people too, and just want to do their best.

An excellent post, but sadly ignorant of of international authoritarianism. Having spent time in both China and the USA, I felt I was more likely to fall foul of the law in the latter. My daughter-in-law was once fined for 'jaywalking' in California - an absurd offence which has no counterpart in the rest of the civilised world. According to Wikipedia there are around 284 police per 100,000 USA population, but only 115 in China, which would explain why I hardly ever saw any of them around, in stark contrast to authoritarian America with probably the highest prison population in the world (around 700 per 100,000 - China 118. UK 140). And the poster is apparently unaware that in England and Wales there are 302 police per 100,000, more than double than in China, - quite sufficient in my view if they work efficiently - which they often appear not to do.

"If they ever need my help I would walk the other way".

Quite a thought provoking view.

Although I would have thought that, generally speaking, you're more likely to need their assistance than they yours.

Does your view apply to other emergency services perhaps, or any one of a number of institutions that offer their service in times of need ... there are quite a few.

As an experience of police in various places i have lived..

UK. overworked, when in uniform sometimes arrogant and mostly distant. several time breathalysed at night bec of minor infractions...

Switzerland. In official dealings helpful and locally good to deal with. Understanding and if a "ticket" given, (in those days) given as a last resort. Helpful and considerate in the village i lived in. When i had a car accident, came along, recognised me and as i admitted fault, told other motorist ok get on with it, nobody hurt. Just before leaving switzerland got a 2nd camera ticket and invited to the police station, explained the circumstances (not concentrating in the middle of a divorce) roundly told off.

USA, told off on a few occasions and let go.

Canada, much the same.

I'd quite like to see a Police man / woman, we frequently travel all over the UK in our motorhome, we often remark on the fact that we could say do a round trip to Dover and back ( 600miles ), and not see a single one, although I did spot a camera van the other day on a previously 40mph road downgrading to 30 mph, but I think the bloke in the back was having his sandwiches and a cuppa, as his little spy hole window was shut.

But I think an awful lot of Police go out on ill health retirement way before their supposed retirement age of 60, a visual Police operative, maybe male, female, or trans-gender are now almost an instinct species, all of our local stations are shut, so Christ knows where they have gone !

Edited by ekka on 13/10/2018 at 18:55

Whatever you do, don't get the name wrong with a transgender person, they'll soon be knocking on your door, and for Gods sake don't refuse to bake a cake for someone, they'll be round even quicker ! !

The decline in the police "service" started a long time ago.- the late 90's - early 2000's when this took place.

Briefly - my 5 foot 2 inch daughter, who would have been about 19 or 20 then was physically assaulted by a drunk, much bigger then her, she got wacked in the face, it was witnessed by a bloke riding his bike who stopped - the drunk ran off and the bike rider followed him to a house where the drunk entered using a key. He rode back to the scene and reported his name and address to my daughter and her friends, and the address of the house where the drunk entered. In the interval where the bike rider was chasing the drunk, her friends tried to stop a passing police car - not on blues and twos - it drive straight past and ignored them. This was all officially reported to the local police station, names, addresses witnesses etc. Fortunately my daughter only suffered a badly bruised cheekbone after x rays etc at A&E .

Result? Nothing - Zero - despite many follow up phone calls. The excuse?

"A lot of people could live in that house, how do we know who committed the assault?"

Err - there were loads of witnesses? " It's just their word against his"

One of my customers at that time was a copper from a different town, I asked him about it.

He said "It sounds like it's what we would call "on a plate" - I can't understand why nothing's been done"

And the police wonder why there is declining confidence in their abilities.

Edited by focussed on 14/10/2018 at 00:10

Whilst i have no axe to grind in this thread either way, despite one member of the family serving, with whom we do not discuss the job, we that is my wife and i long ago realised the police no longer fulfil the role they were formed for, the prevention of crime and the protection of the innocent, they are now a retrospective or after the event (if you are lucky) business, the service and priority you receive depends on which boxes you and the alleged crime tick.

For most of us we are on our own out there, the police and state are IMHO no longer the friend of the innocent, it is unlikely this will change and is likely to get much worse before what many of us can see coming has run its course, my suggestion is to avoid being personally vulnerable or being in the vicinity of or associating with those who could cause you harm, or being a group's useful idiot by association, make sure your home is as protected as it can be, but make sure that no home attacker could harm themselves on your locked gates for example, or you'll be for up before the beak if you survive the attack, and yes the UK is fast becoming a worldwide laughing stock.

It's fairly easy for those of us with decent jobs to avoid living in high risk areas and to avoid the sorts of people who are likely to do you harm, i feel for those of limited means, often the elderly, who have no option but to suffer the consequences, whilst those who decided on and support the rather rapid changes in our societies live a long way from the results and generally in well protected areas.

A nasty, disturbing, but hardly surprising case above of the daughter punched by some low life and the utterly useless response of the police, many town and city streets are not safe any more especially at night, for females especially, predators move in such areas freely and it appears can carry on regardless....the irony here had the cyclist captured the assailant and held him for the eventually blue uniform to appear he would more than likely get nicked, brilliant.

I haven't touched on the disgraceful events in many towns and cities across the country regarding the systematic rape and serious assault of thousands of little girls, well known about for many years but swept under the carpet with whistle blowers either ignored sacked or even prosecuted (you couldn't make this up), these events, whether the old blind eye or Heaven forbid collusion was and is still at work, have made people take a much different view of the state and its enforcers than the one we might once have (mistakenly?) held.

One other thing, who'd be a genuine bobby any more, when you're being attacked (murdered) by some thug whilst your gold braided senior sits it out in the car watching and then drives off to safety, i'm only surprised half the force haven't put their resignation papers in in protest.

Decent genuine officers who do their duty, the likes of Keith Palmer RIP and Charlie Guenigault, unarmed out of uniform and fighting the London Bridge attackers despite being stabbed multiple times, are the ones who should be wearing the gold braid and directing things.

Edited by gordonbennet on 14/10/2018 at 12:15

Whatever you do, don't get the name wrong with a transgender person, they'll soon be knocking on your door, and for Gods sake don't refuse to bake a cake for someone, they'll be round even quicker ! !

I know there's an element of TIC here but getting in a tangle over the correct/preferred pronoun for a trans person is one thing. Repeated and deliberate misuse is capable of being categorised as hate crime and rightly so.

'Being offensive' shouldn't be a crime - they aren't inciting violence (sticks and stones, etc). Who's to say what 'is offensive' and what isn't, especially as now it seems that depends on the person 'taking offense'. I personally find the remarks of some people on this forum 'offensive', but other than being critical of them that all that should be done - I won't be calling for the police just because someone insulted me for my views.

The problem is that people advoctaing so-called 'hate speech' are playing identity political to silence people who believe in different (but not nasty) political views, mainly those who aren't of a hard left political persuasion. I've actually heard of the police actually being called to primary school playgrounds because one child has been 'mean' to another. This has to stop.

Far better to call such people out for being a berk, it has the desired effect of humiliating them, and far cheaper then paying police to tell someone what to say or what not to.

Yes, the police have had budgets cut, which has AN effect, but much of the current problems stem from its management and the atitude of its staff, not all of them, but a significant minority, and most of the top brass (including at the CPS and Home Office), as well as idiot politicians who favour virtue-singalling and pandering towards certain groups who, for the very most part don't reflect the views of society, or, for that matter, common-sense views.

We've gone from one bad extreme to the other.

Very low figures to me, look at educated careers such as IT, Finance etc. Perhaps in some poor areas in the North those figures work. In the more southern areas very poor figures indeed.

I work in IT management and even one the fresh graduates with 18 months experience earns more than the sargeant figure and they have a company car thrown in.

I simply cannot believe how anyone can think the Police pay rates are low. When I retired 2 years ago from the Construction Industry I was earning approx 30K which was pretty much the rate for a HND qulified Engineer in a small company. Prior to that I worked in Building Services and when I left the company in 2004 was earning about 20K, that job is currently being advertised at 32K

After leaving school with A levels I did 5 years at college and polytechnic to get the HND (the last 2 years full time) and also received a Health & Safety Executive qulification as well as a couple of City and Guilds in IT later in my career.

Round these parts you see many full time jobs advertised at 15K or even less.

Skidpan, sorry for the thread drift, but that is one of the reasons there is a shortage of up and coming engineers in the UK, the pay is carp.

I've been self-employed for the past 20+ years (I too have an HND, but in electrical & electronic engineering), and in my particular branch of the industry I can nearly charge the same hourly rate as a car main dealer! It's the only way to make a good living.

I'm actually being contracted to work by a German company ATM, (note to UK businesses, the German outfit always pay their invoices on time), but I'm worried that current political upheaval will put pay to this in the near future?

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve worked as a software engineer for 25+ years after doing academic work. My current salary is good nationally, but mediocre for my experience and knowledge. Were I to work in the US I would be earning £100,000 a year or more. I’d also be earning far more in Germany or France. They respect engineers. Here the managers earn the money and feed engineers BS. At one point we were importing huge numbers of Indian engineers because they were cheap, and companies claimed a skills shortage. I contracted for ten years and earnt a lot, hence I’m financially comfortable and will retire before I am 60. But I don’t recommend engineering as a job. Not in the U.K. anyway.

I simply cannot believe how anyone can think the Police pay rates are low.

I do not wish to sound negative to the comment you make but they are low in the South. As already said anyone with a reasonable amount of education can easily beat those rates. I am a high rate tax payer earn a great deal more than the rates listed and work 8:00 until 16:00 5 days a week. Work two of these days from home as well. I do not have a company car though with the tax it attracts opted for a car allowance, that allowance alone is £7k. Most Police officers are not well paid at all.

Edited by JR150 on 14/10/2018 at 18:29

One thing that ofetn happens is that police officers (like many people) got attracted to work in neighbouring metropolitan areas with extra 'allowances' - that's why, for a long time, parts of Hertfordshire and other Home Counties were part of the Met - their salaries were vastly higher in the Met than locally, even when taking into account travelling costs.

The problem is that many people think that us lot in the private sector get paid a fortune - some do, but most don't, skweing the average, and we have (for the most part) little in the way of subsidenised perks and often very low company pension contributions - very few final salary pensions left, and certainly not funded by other taxpayers (whether in part of in full).

That’s a very good point. I’ve been laid off several times. The last time my salary dropped from very good to okay, and of course all my achievements with the previous company were lost, and of no benefit to my new job. In most jobs I have done there were no career reviews, no chance to progress, and sometimes no pay rises. Join a government institution, and you get a career structure, with annual pay rises, often modest though, but more importantly the chance to rise through the grades. And equally important is the job security. I’ve not heard of a police force going bust, and laying off all of its staff. Private companies often go bust, or have purges of staff in order to survive. A police officer can retire at 60 which is much earlier than most people. Nurses could retire early too, but I think the age for calming a full pension is now 65, or the state pension age, whichever is sooner.

From what you say, Bromptonaut, the purges seem to be widespread in the public sector. Yet the national unemployment figure remains low. In the private sector most people who are made redundant are out of a job: do civil servants and those who work for Governmewnt agencies usually get redeployed?

I'm not making a point - just interested to know.

The total number of people employed in the public sector has gone down, so overall people have moved in to the private sector. How that is done, for example by natural depletion such as retirement, or forced redundancy, Bromptonaut might know. Some graphs are in the following link but only to 2013:

Join a government institution, and you get a career structure, with annual pay rises, often modest though, but more importantly the chance to rise through the grades.

I was a Civil Servant for 35 years.

I finally scrambled to top of my pay scale in 2009 - £40,300 for top end of middle management in London WC2. Same rate prevails today.

No whole government department has gone bust but large numbers of organisations have been abolished or merged.

I guess that's SEO level?

When I was a sprog Admin Officer that was "GOD" level and probably head of a department (50 / 60 + staff). In some private firms that would be "Director Level" (Think FD).

Didn't the PSA disappear and eventually merge in to Carillion?

Was talking to someone who works in a large DWP centre and they were told to "spend the budget" in January last year or it wouldn't be renewed. That would be very unlikely to happen in a private firm, with savings going to the bottom line.

That's called 'annuality' to make it sound respectable. At the Arny shooting range at Bisley they used to shoot everything in sight in March, so as not to get a reduced budgrt for bullets in the following financial year.

It was the resuilt of Government departments persisting with accounting on a cash basis until about 2001 - pruvate industry having used accrual accounting for years. Under accrual accounting you can carry foward unused funds - but old habits die hard and there are probably some places where annuality still happens.

I very often get very offended by what offends other people, that they find so offensive to complain that they have been offended

to whom who do I report that to ?

Edited by ekka on 15/10/2018 at 20:16

And the above thread shows why increasing numbers of us are having increasingly less to do with other people apart from those we know and trust, and increasingly prefer our dogs, who's agenda is love company food and a daily good run though not necessarily in that order.

It's not to just keep our dogs in and safe that the sizeable gates have gone up, its also to keep the world out.

Unfortunately the freedom to comment anonymously encourages some people to drop their inhibitions and be quite unpleasant to others. It’s a bit like talking to a bunch of drunk people, but without the ‘I love you, you’re my bestest friend you are’. We used to think the internet would bring people together, and help spread truth, leading to a better world. Instead we use it to insult someone and order a parcel. On a more serious note, many of us use it to reinforce our own prejudices by visiting sites that promote one sided discussions. And the internet is a poor place to make friends.

I very often get very offended by what offends other people, that they find so offensive to complain that they have been offended

I think too many people have lost track of the notion that offending takes two - one to be offended, but equally importantly, another who is deliberately offending. Now all that seems to be required is a recipient, who can decide they have been unnecessarily offended. Recently someone was reported for using the word 'niggardly', presumably by someone else just out looking for trouble, and ignorant of what had been said. I'm not even sure whether a black person was involved.

That is past the point of reason.

As you probably know a senior police officer training others in correct procedure used the term ‘whiter than white’ and was suspended, presumably for racism. You couldn’t make it up. Can we now say ‘black ball someone’, or ‘whitewash’?

The road where I live in the SE no houses for sale for less than £550k how does a Police officer salary work in that case? As I said earlier in the South very poor salary figures indeed

In our area a modern 4 bet detached sells for about £250,000. A modern 2 bed starter town house is about £100,000. An older mid terrace in a poorer part of town can be had for about £40,000.

So what do you propose, make wages relative to property prices.

Round here its still relatively easy for young couples to get on the property ladder on what many would consider poor wages and long may it continue.

As you probably know a senior police officer training others in correct procedure used the term ‘whiter than white’ and was suspended, presumably for racism. You couldn’t make it up. Can we now say ‘black ball someone’, or ‘whitewash’?

He was suspended over what I suspect was an alleged breach of the force's diversity policy. Without knowing more of the context, both personal and professional, it's not possible to come to any conclusion about whether complaint is real and founded, real but unfounded or petty and vexatious.

Being suspended isn't punitive, it's meant to get the person against whom allegations are made out of the way, sometimes just to let tempers cool. It also removes, or at least reduces, possibility that somebody can tamper with evidence or influence witnesses. Suspension should only remain for as long as it takes to conduct a proper investigation; days or possibly a couple of weeks. If it goes beyond that there's something seriously wrong with HR process.

On an allied matter ISTR another office being in trouble over use of phrase 'good egg'. Not heard it before but apparently egg and spoon has been adopted as 'Cockney' rhyming slang for the racial slur c**n (think Alf Garnet). Rhyming slang uses the non rhyming first word - as in going for a pony (and trap) = crap.

Your first paragraph sums up exactly what is wrong with society and especially the civil service today. This man obviously wasn't being racist, and yet it is taken that way because someone thought someone else might be 'offended', or one of the always offended brigade piped up. Of course, if you're a white, heterosexual man, then you're fair game for slurs of any nature.

'Being reasonable' shouldn't not mean getting the Police involved whenever someone says something you find offensive. Calling someone a racist, sexist, etc name is a disgusting act, and should be called out for that, but a crime? Does that mean football fans who chant 'I hate Manchester United' etc mean that they should be arrested for crimes against Mancunians? Or when someone says in the heat of an argument to another person that they 'hate them, you f****** b*******' or suchlike, but doesn't physically attack them or threaten to to do so.

Where do we draw the line, especially as people like you seem to think what is a 'hate crime' very much depends on the person who has made the 'claim'. How orwellian. Actions should count, and yes, I would count threatening to carry out crimes with those, but not insults, even if they were racist etc, not because I agree iwth them, but because such things should be dealt with in other ways - e.g. by publicsing the incident to shame them (which often does the job IF reported factually and fully - often they aren't) into changing their ways, or, if on the job, disciplining them for bringing their employer into disrepute. In this case, he didn't, and he deserve no censure at all.

Its only because the Met's rules are now so politically correct, signalling these (uselless) virtues to ethnic and other minority groups (actually only a few activists - the permanently offende group allied to the Hard Left - the SJWs - ironically, most of whom aren't even members of the minorities they say are supposedly offended) which does no-one any good at all, rather to set people against eachother.

Identity politics and political correctness is ruining this country (and survey after survey says the vast majority of people believe this to be true and, yes, hate both), turning everyone against eachother.

Your first paragraph sums up exactly what is wrong with society and especially the civil service today. This man obviously wasn't being racist, and yet it is taken that way because someone thought someone else might be 'offended', or one of the always offended brigade piped up. Of course, if you're a white, heterosexual man, then you're fair game for slurs of any nature.

You've no idea whether he intended there to be a slur or not (and neither have I). If an allegation is raised then it should be investigated promptly and evenhandedly.

The MacPherson report found the Metropolitan Police to be institutionally racist. Sir William (Wellington School and Cambridge) is hardly your archetypal left winger. There's plenty of research out there to suggest Met has yet to change.

A hate crime is a hate crime whoever makes the claim. Heterosexual middle aged white males like me can complain of a hate crime. But I'm much less likely to be a victim than my black lesbian colleague.

There's some useful reading on the subject here:

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimin.../

Actually, most people on the Hard Left nowadays ARE from either middle class of upper middle class (and white) backgrounds, just like Corbyn and many of his close colleagues and followers. Many lecturers from universities in the humanities and social sciences are very left wing (studies proved this) and thus have been (and increasingly so as more young people attend college) indocrinating more people to their ideologies since the end of WWII.

The Macpherson Report was a waste of time and an exercise in virtue-signalling, a guide if you like to everything that has gone on since. Yes, there were (and likely still are) a good number of bigoted police officers, the problem is that the report unfairly tarred all officers with the same brush. Plus, all that has gone on since is they've gone to be racist in reverse, as I've laid out in another post a few minutes ago.

Thanks for proverbially digging your own hole with your final comments. I don't need to bother rebutting them, as you make my case for not having separate 'hate crime' legislation perfectly well yourself. I just hope you don't one day make a remark to someone that gets you into trouble with the law as it stands, however innocent you might think it to be.

#NoThoughtPolice

<< A hate crime is a hate crime whoever makes the claim. Heterosexual middle aged white males like me can complain of a hate crime. >>

It is very difficult to define in legally precise terms a borderline between everyday insulting behaviour and 'hate crime'. Sadly, the advance of P-C and MeToo tends to encourage more agitation-inclined people towards claims of hate crime. My worry is that if these tendencies are encouraged, hate will become a crime in itself, whether or not the hater takes any action at all. The Thought Police will have arrived.

When people were more 'religious' they were encouraged not to hate. That may have a little to do with it.

As you probably know a senior police officer training others in correct procedure used the term ‘whiter than white’ and was suspended, presumably for racism. You couldn’t make it up. Can we now say ‘black ball someone’, or ‘whitewash’?

He was suspended over what I suspect was an alleged breach of the force's diversity policy. Without knowing more of the context, both personal and professional, it's not possible to come to any conclusion about whether complaint is real and founded, real but unfounded or petty and vexatious.

Being suspended isn't punitive, it's meant to get the person against whom allegations are made out of the way, sometimes just to let tempers cool. It also removes, or at least reduces, possibility that somebody can tamper with evidence or influence witnesses. Suspension should only remain for as long as it takes to conduct a proper investigation; days or possibly a couple of weeks. If it goes beyond that there's something seriously wrong with HR process.

On an allied matter ISTR another office being in trouble over use of phrase 'good egg'. Not heard it before but apparently egg and spoon has been adopted as 'Cockney' rhyming slang for the racial slur c**n (think Alf Garnet). Rhyming slang uses the non rhyming first word - as in going for a pony (and trap) = crap.

Here is one report of the incident: www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/senior-met-officer-c...l I’ve seen other reports which say the same thing. Basically all he did was say that the Met officers had to be whiter than white in the way they carried out inquiries.

Whatever that report in The Standard says we don't know the facts. The paper's proprietor and editor are both far more concerned with circulation/readership than absolute objective reporting.

The complaint itself is what it is. The disgrace is that sorting it will take 12 months.

The same description of the case is given in numerous newspapers including the Times, with comments from Met officers. It’s quite clear what happened. It’s shocking and disgraceful that police resources are tied up with something absurd. Many people are terrified by a PC witch hunt.

'Being offensive' shouldn't be a crime - they aren't inciting violence (sticks and stones, etc). Who's to say what 'is offensive' and what isn't, especially as now it seems that depends on the person 'taking offense'. I personally find the remarks of some people on this forum 'offensive', but other than being critical of them that all that should be done - I won't be calling for the police just because someone insulted me for my views.

Make your mind up! Lower down this thread you're advocating being polite to avoid problems. There are a significant number of words in the English language that are offensive and can get you arrested. There's a whole other lot of stuff, short of 'sticks and stones' that nobody should have to put up with when directed at say their race, religion or sexual orientation. We have laws to cover that passed with consent of overwhelming number of MPs. Nothing to do with 'the left' or different but not nasty political views.

You are either very naive or, IMHO, have an agenda you are trying to push to gain and keep control over the population. My very point is that insults should NOT get you arrested - threats of or actual violence/other criminal acts SHOULD. I personally have been called very nasty names (which at the time was very hurtful) when I was at school - should I now tell the police and have these people arrested for 'hate crimes'? Or does my skin colour, gender, sexual orientation or political affiliation preclude me from being able to do so?

I've actually heard of the police actually being called to primary school playgrounds because one child has been 'mean' to another. This has to stop.

What sort of mean? Won't share sweets is one thing. Calling another kid a Pa*i is different particularly if parents are egging on.

See above. I've been called just as bad names as a kid in the playground, and I've also told those who called friends of mine racist names to stop and, in one or two circumstances, made sure a teacher got involved to stop this.

as well as idiot politicians who favour virtue-singalling and pandering towards certain groups who, for the very most part don't reflect the views of society, or, for that matter, common-sense views.

We've gone from one bad extreme to the other.

Come on soit it out; who are these certain groups?

I think you know who they are, and you're trying to goad me into somehow making a comment that you will determine as racist, sexist, etc to try and get me banned or worse. Given you're a former civil servant working in the Home Office, you, IMHO, are the sort of person who are the cause of much of these problems, why the Met have have silly rules and have done what they've done in this case.

And before you try and tar me as some kind of bigot - most of my firends are from ethnic minority groups, though I only think of them as British as well as my friends. A relative of mine is from the LGBT community, whom I get on with very well and kept their secret (I guessed correctly 20+ years ago) from their parents as it was a) none of my business to tell them, and b) I didn't have a problem with it. I did (again) a 'political compass' test which confirmed I am centre-right, so I'm no extremist. I call out the far left/right and racist/homophobe bigots who occasionally pop into the comments sections of our newspapers and YouTube, sticking to facts and not just feelings.

I know many people (including freinds and colleagues of mine) from so-called 'minority groups' (including women [and who hate being referred to as such - they are British, or Joe Bloggs, etc]) who are sickened at this politically correct behaviour, because it often belittles their own achievements and status if they got preferential treatment because of who they were, not how good they were at their job or their actions generally in society. That and it prevents many civil servants, including police officers, from carrying out their REAL duties.

People of all hues are now genuinely afraid of saying anything that might be misconstrued by some official busybody or activist, so are now overly risk-averse in decision-making, often leading to poor outcomes in many areas, ironically, including the hiring/promotion of women (especially) and some ethnic/religious minority groups or going forward with poor quality plans/ideas because they are the least likely to offend anyone in the slightest way (even if that offense is completely unjustified), often because they don't want to argue their case because its easier not to and keep quiet.

All that is happening, as we see with our Police service/crime (as with much in society) is people managing decline until the proverbial hits the fan and we have to do something REALLY drastic to stop things going south permantly, as, for instance, is happening in countries like Venezuela. Look how bad things are in Germany, Sweden and France - their circumstance is the UK + 5 years. Not good.

The problem is, in my opinion, people like you think that anyone who doesn't share your views should be censured/silenced. Free speech has been and should be the backbone of our democracy. The trouble is that, as we see, there's always someone who feels more 'repressed' and/or 'offended' (some now from people with serious mental health issues who are now presented as rational) than you who will want their (unfounded) greivances sorted out above everyone else's, which is why identity politics is cancer for society and has to be stopped, otherwise it will end in serious civil unrest. We are already well on that road.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 16/10/2018 at 17:01

I can understand your viewpoint. I work in software, and to be honest I hate it. Sitting at a desk all day, often working with socially inept people is not much fun.

Ditto in parts

I was a Civil Servant from 1978 to 2013. Most of my postings were OK and one was an introduction to a vocation. But two were hell on earth because of other people.

Now work for Citizens Advice and love it - the vocation I was introduced to from 92 to 99.