Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 12:53

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - oldroverboy.

www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/oct/04/uk-c...e

Do the motor industry think that we "The Public" should go on buying cars just to suit them.???

I know that jobs depend on the motor industry, but they are victims of their own success at pushing people intp PCP's leases and all the financial trickery of the whole industry.

The last time I went to buy a new car, the purchase was the minor thing.

Really wanted me to buy the demo car on PCP at silly interest , Gap insurance, paint protection, fabric protection, alloy wheel protection etc etc were the earners for the dealership who said "WE HAVE to talk you through these. I said fine, talk to the empty chair while i get a coffee, otherwise i'm off.

The venga is doing well, still 3 years and 5 months warranty and 2 services to come with prepaid package. If i sell it, i lose that portion of the service pack as dealer won't take it into account.

Cost to me so far MOT £30 with service at Kia deaers and 2 front tyres at 30000 miles. and chocolates for service dept who are superb...

Edited by oldroverboy. on 04/10/2018 at 12:55

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 12:57

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - oldroverboy.

Diesel sales took a major thump, though, down 42% year-on-year to 98,191 from 170,733 in September 2017.

In another blow for Volkswagen, sales of its Audi brand slumped by 53% in the UK last month.

Edited by oldroverboy. on 04/10/2018 at 12:58

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 13:13

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - oldroverboy.

From Hj's report............

As a result, the UK new car market fell by 20.5 per cent in September - a figure which has been reflected across Europe,

So, not just us, and EU sales dip isn't down to Brexit is it?

Edited by oldroverboy. on 04/10/2018 at 13:15

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 13:27

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - carl233

As I have said in a number of other threads cars are overpriced and by a large margin, some countries in the Middle East sell vehicles at 40% less than UK prices in some comparison examples. We have a situation in which low earners are driving around in new 'premium' BMW vehicles using the PCP game which is designed to lock people in where possible.

This situation cannot continue forever, there is also a good chance that this country will be in recession before 2020.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 13:52

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - Sofa Spud

I wonder how many people are hanging on to their old car until the right-hand drive Tesla Model 3 becomes available. It's one of the top selling cars in the USA now.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 04/10/2018 at 13:55

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 14:00

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - TheGentlemanThug

I agree. I remember buying a brand new mid-range Golf in 2006 for £13,500; an equivalent Golf today is close to £20,000.

A neighbour recently bought a new 5 Series on a PCP deal and will have a balloon payment of nearly £15,000 when the deal ends. They've said that they have absolutely no way to pay it, so they'll either have to give up the car or take out a new PCP deal and repeat the cycle.

Your money, your choice, but I despair nonetheless.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 14:30

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - daveyjp

The reasons will be varied as every global market has its own pressures.

For the UK I've just Googled "effect of PPI payments on UK spend."

Lots of links from 4-5 years ago saying the same thing:

The £15bn 'free' cash has lead to an increase in car sales.

The £18bn cash injection will be spent, but it will lead to a slowdown in sales of items such as cars.

Peston on BBC:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25635819

So it seems the market is simply returning to typical levels.

And regardless of what is said about the UK being wonderful after the end of March next year, Brexit is the shadow looming large.

It only takes a few tens of thousands of no voters who are pessimistic to decide not to spend money for the ripples to be felt by all.

Edited by daveyjp on 04/10/2018 at 14:48

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 16:07

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - Engineer Andy

To me, PCP deals are the new sub-prime mortgage pyramid scheme scam.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 19:37

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - Oli rag

Spot on Andy. I think this is going to end up very badly for some people.

I'm not sure who underwrites the "minimum guaranteed future value" upon which this whole ponzi scheme of new car PCP "ownership" is based. If secondhand values plummet (which they will do in any near future recession), who picks up the tab?

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 14:02

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - Manatee

the dealership who said "WE HAVE to talk you through these. I said fine, talk to the empty chair while i get a coffee, otherwise i'm off.

As you probably know, they don't have to talk you through these things at all. Lending and insurance are regulated as is the sale of them, and if you are interested in them they must be sold compliantly (properly explained and establishing suitability, essentially). Otherwise there is no compulsion for them to subject you to the process. Some I am sure genuinely believe there is and won't be told otherwise. Sadly the salespeople have no choice but to peddle these products.

I had a lot to do with motor dealers in a past career. Car sales is not a job I would ever consider, unless it was for myself. Happily it's irrelevant now as I have retired.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 15:17

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - Avant

I was talking to an Audi salesman the other day, and the main reason for the slump in new car sales is that stocks are very low. This is entirely due to the slow rate at which the WLTP tests have been carried out. Every permutation of every model has to be tested, and for some reason VAG has got further behind than most.

He gave me an example of several A3 cabriolets, ordered last spring but still yet to be given a build date: the cabriolets are being tested later than the hatchbacks.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 15:40

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - leaseman

Add to that the fact that 5 weeks after the introduction of new Emission Standards, we still cannot quote Contract Hire rentals on the A4 range, a stalwart of the Business Car market.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 15:36

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - barney100

I'm not surprised new car sales are down. I bought the gap insurance and paint protection four years ago a bit wiser now I hope. People a few years ago were buying cars from Europe when they were much cheaper over there, does that still go on? New cars seem way over priced. There's a Peugeot 508 in the paper featured as an exceptional car, £37,000. admittedly when the base model comes out it will be nearer 30k according the the article. How much will that be worth in 3 years time? All the other ads for new cars are of the so much deposit so much a month type. I've often thought about bangernomics being a good idea, now if I keep my car long enough I'll be into bangernomics and save myself a fortune....hopefully.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 16:05

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - Engineer Andy

See: www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2018-10/car.../

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 17:38

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - sammy1

The price of new cars must be a big factor. On ebay today a new ford fiesta at £21k. Not so long ago the top list price for a fiesta was circa £14k. I don't think wages have moved by a third in the same time. People buying new on PCP are bound to have a trade in gap when their contract ends so how do they make up the difference to go into the next one with the price increases? Depreciation plus price increases leaves a big hole in your wallet. Maybe the fall in sales is a indicator of trouble ahead. Aston Martin floated on the stock market and the opening price fell taking some £500k off its perceived value. Apparently the company has gone bankrupt 5 times previous and the Welsh government in its wisdom has given the company 19 million of tax payers money in grants for a new factory. Have they seen the price of these cars?

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 19:31

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - Engineer Andy

When I bought my (upper mid spec) Mazda3 TS2 1.6 petrol back in 2006, the list price of the car was about £14k odd. I got mine discounted to £10.3k (really lucky - RHD import from Cyprus via Motorpoint). You could pick up the base model for about £12K or so at the time.

The base model Fiesta is now £13.7k RRP; to get a reasonable engine (say the 100PS Zetec) and spec you have to pay £16.5k RRP. I know the Pound has depreciated quite a bit in that time, but these prices are getting silly. I've seen that they are just as expensive on the continent, so it can't be all down to the Pound.

It doesn't help that since PCP deals and similar got popular, people have been paying silly money for cars. Things are only going to get worse as Spreasheet Phil and Big Cities taxes us even more for older cars, possibly taxing them off the road even though they are in good condition, forcing people to spend £££ on far newer cars they often cannot really afford to buy, just so they can save £10+ to drive to work in a city (when in many cases there is little viable public transport alternative) or as part of their job.

Nice.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 19:02

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - RichT54

I wonder if part of the reduction is also due to people finding it increasingly difficult to find new cars that are not crammed to the roof with complex electronic gizmos that they really don't want.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 19:19

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - carl233

In my opinion the country has lost its mind we have some people at the office earning low salary figures driving new 'premium' PCP BMW vehicles or Audi's. Then the more senior staff on the higher salaries have far more sensible vehicles! Myself I run a 20 plus year old Ford yet a person that reports to me earning less than half the salary has an 18 plate 3 series on PCP a totally mad and debt crazy country Britain has become.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 19:46

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - oldroverboy.

a totally mad and debt crazy country Britain has become.

I agree... when I buy a car, i pay the balance with cash.. (debit card) and the "why not have it on the never never at xx% interest and spend your money on a holiday."

What more holidays..

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 19:52

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - mcb100

Simple new car availability has been the issue, caused by the switch from NEDC to WLTP. I spend much of my working life in dealerships, and many more cars could be sold if only lead times were acceptable. The lack of new sales has, in turn, led to fewer trade-ins and consequently a shortage of used stock.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 19:59

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - carl233

more cars could be sold if only lead times were acceptable

More debt then for the debt-ridden country of 'modern' Britain.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 20:15

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - veloceman

Really?
Most folks on here buy a car with debt, whether it be via PCP or better value Bank loan. You takes your choice.
I bought my house via debt ( mortgage)
Government is trying to sort current debt caused by labour.

Borrowing is not a bad thing. Just depends on if you can afford it.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 20:24

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - gordonbennet

Government is trying to sort current debt caused by labour. Borrowing is not a bad thing. Just depends on if you can afford it.

Might be worth a perusal.

fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-recor.../

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 20:30

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - carl233

Borrowing is not a bad thing.

We are all different although I feel if you cannot afford a car cash you cannot afford the payments. Why can cars not be advertised by the cash price rather than how much a month?! Is it due to the price being at a loss to earnings? Houses tend to increase in value over the very long-term but cars typically do not. This generation will end up working until they are 70 or maybe 80 or even until death in many cases; based on the mindset from what I am seeing. Whilst I run a Ford that is old a retirement is assured at 55 (already mortgage free). Society has gone down an interesting path to say the least.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 20:43

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - carl233

Might be worth a perusal.

fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-recor.../

The public are enjoying today lets not worry about the future or indeed tomorrow, anyway where are those keys to the 18 plate 3 series so I can go to the office and work 50 hours per week to make that PCP payment. We have never had it so good. What a shrewd and 'switched on' population Britain has.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 21:18

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - veloceman

Yeah, it’s a good point.
Yet most youngsters on a moderate wage can not envisage owning a 2 bed mid terrace for stupid money.
They can’t be blamed for giving up and enjoying life. (As we all should).

Fortunately I live in rural East Yorkshire when you really can have it all!

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 21:23

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - veloceman

And just to confirm what I say.
Just watch The location programme where folks can purchase a three bed semi for £450k!
You can same here for £150k.

I think that is really where the problem is.

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Thu 4 Oct 2018 21:35

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - carl233

In 1995 the average property price for the entire country was 3.5 times the average income, people have been gullible enough since to outbid each other into poverty and this me me me me mindset has of course filtered to all walks of 'modern' society including cars. The country is broken but this 'I must have' mindset will for sure see people working in many cases until death. If you want an example or case study of mind control just look at Britain a finer example is hard to find.

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 00:44

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - drd63

Thought police are out in force on this topic, just because you can’t/don’t want to afford a new car doesn’t mean that those who do are wrong. There are some great finance deals out there and at such low rates it can make more sense to finance a car and invest the capital and yes I know not all have any capital to invest! As for property prices it’s simple supply and demand, there is a very good reason why property costs more in SE than NE England. I’m sure the 20% fall in car sales is partly due to supply and WLTP as evidenced by this being EU wide.

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 07:50

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - oldroverboy.

That was the point of my post. Lots of stuff being blamed, but the culprit is WLTP and an absurdly skewed market caused by dieselgate and the relentless push in sales.

So from an artificial peak there is now an artificial trough.

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 09:10

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - FoxyJukebox

Surely this is a good thing....people holding on longer to cars which can easily last ten+ years?....loans paid off?

I remember my parents had a 1938 Vauxhall that lasted them till 1957!......but they were pleased to get a car with a radio and some heating though!

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 09:32

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - FiestaOwner

www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/oct/04/uk-c...e

Do the motor industry think that we "The Public" should go on buying cars just to suit them.???

I know that jobs depend on the motor industry, but they are victims of their own success at pushing people intp PCP's leases and all the financial trickery of the whole industry.

The last time I went to buy a new car, the purchase was the minor thing.

Really wanted me to buy the demo car on PCP at silly interest , Gap insurance, paint protection, fabric protection, alloy wheel protection etc etc were the earners for the dealership who said "WE HAVE to talk you through these. I said fine, talk to the empty chair while i get a coffee, otherwise i'm off.

The venga is doing well, still 3 years and 5 months warranty and 2 services to come with prepaid package. If i sell it, i lose that portion of the service pack as dealer won't take it into account.

Cost to me so far MOT £30 with service at Kia deaers and 2 front tyres at 30000 miles. and chocolates for service dept who are superb...

The headlines are misleading.

The dealers were pre-registering cars before September which didn't meat the WLTP emissions rules.

Come September the dealers are selling the pre-reg cars and claiming that new car sales are down.

Well yes, new car sales are down. BUT pre-reg sales are up!!!

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 10:18

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - mcb100

Interesting that August 2018 registration numbers were 23% up on 2017, but on only 94,000 units. September was 20.5% down on 339,000 units. Subtract the pre-reg cars that were pressed into action as demonstrators, management company cars and service courtesy cars, and the scale of the fall becomes more apparent.

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 13:02

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - carl233

There are some great finance deals out there and at such low rates it can make more sense to finance a car and invest the capital

It was this mindset that caused the financial mess of 2008, borrow borrow borrow lets pay it back in the future, I must have, I want it now etc. Current interest rates will not stay like they are forever. As I have said before if you cannot afford a car cash you cannot afford the payment, it is above your financial status.

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 13:22

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - mcb100

The average amount financed on a car in August 2018 (latest figures available) on both new and used was just over £14,000. Just over £19,000 when you look at new cars only.
So if we take all those sales away, what sort of motor industry are we left with?

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 13:33

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - mcb100

You’re left with 47% of the total market that doesn’t finance car purchases. I’d suspect the bulk of those would be to fleet, paying nowhere near retail price. The automotive industry without finance just wouldn’t exist.

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 17:03

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - carl233

The automotive industry without finance just wouldn’t exist.

Not in its current form it could not, cars are far too expensive look at the list prices of cars like a Fiesta and Focus for example. New prices make little sense, why buy a new Focus for example for more than £20k new when you can buy a MK1 with low miles and good history for less than £1k change the belts and consumables and potentially run it for 5 years plus. New cars typically are such poor value in the UK.

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 17:30

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - drd63

Carl, I'm not sure you understand the point being made about 0% or low interest rates. If you have the capital to invest in stocks and shares and can expect a return of 7% why invest that in a depreciating asset (a car). Your point about interest rates rising is spurious when used in relation to leasing deals. The rate is normally fixed over the 3 or 4 year term of the deal. Not comparable with mortgages at all. Would you also suggest that we don't buy a house until you can afford to pay cash. In parts of the country houses are hardly appreciating in value.

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Fri 5 Oct 2018 19:12

Shock Horror - September car sales down 20% - carl233

Invest capital of course but we have many people with large mortgages driving high end cars on PCP they live from one month to the next. If they lose income for even one month they will be in trouble. Yet a PCP will often run for three years what do these people do when they are locked in for the longish term? The money being asked for cars is such poor value it is hard to justify for anyone that demands reasonable value for hard earned money. Especially when in GCC countries cars are in some examples 40% cheaper.

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