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I could not in all honesty, recommend one to you. Through my own research gleaned from various sources including a used car and van seller, i have come to the conclusion that the engine is not as bad as it is made out to be but it is crucial that the servicing has been carried out at shorter intervals than the schedule suggests, and it is also crucial that the right oil is used. So the only situation where i'd be willing to take a chance on one is either brand new, or owned by someone i knew and trusted to have serviced it with the correct oil and at the intervals it actually needs.
You mentioned you'd like the 2.0, i believe that is a stronger unit than the 1.6, but i wouldn't swear to that.
If that wasn't enough, you are also considering the automated manual, which i wouldn't go near with a barge pole. Not just due to any potential reliability problems, but also because of the jerky and inconsistent nature of them. I have read too many off-putting reports from owners who have been caught out trying to pull on to a busy road or roundabout, seeing a gap, putting their foot down and nothing happens for a second or two. And by the time the car reacts and lurches out, the gap is no longer there.
So on the face of it, the DMF is probably quite low on things you should be worried about!.
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If that wasn't enough, you are also considering the automated manual, which i wouldn't go near with a barge pole. Not just due to any potential reliability problems, but also because of the jerky and inconsistent nature of them. I have read too many off-putting reports from owners who have been caught out trying to pull on to a busy road or roundabout, seeing a gap, putting their foot down and nothing happens for a second or two. And by the time the car reacts and lurches out, the gap is no longer there.
If the likes of Honda drop such a technology, then you know its carp and best left well alone.
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The odd thing about automated manuals is that they are now the standard gearbox on almost all new large lorries in this country, and whilst they might have the odd driving issue (for those who either care or have any knowledge of the super fast gearboxes of yor) they are really very reliable indeed and they help prevent half wits from destroying clutches and manual gearboxes themselves which became a serious issue for a variety of reasons.
Compared to the absolute garbage of these poorly designed boxes that various car makers have foisted on their victims, had such boxes been similarly unfit for purpose in lorries the makers would by now be long out of business, their products simply unwanted.
One lorry maker has designed a twin clutch box but its an expensive option and the take up so far is very few units.
Edited by gordonbennet on 03/09/2018 at 19:39
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The odd thing about automated manuals is that they are now the standard gearbox on almost all new large lorries in this country, and whilst they might have the odd driving issue (for those who either care or have any knowledge of the super fast gearboxes of yor) they are really very reliable indeed and they help prevent half wits from destroying clutches and manual gearboxes themselves which became a serious issue for a variety of reasons.
Compared to the absolute garbage of these poorly designed boxes that various car makers have foisted on their victims, had such boxes been similarly unfit for purpose in lorries the makers would by now be long out of business, their products simply unwanted.
One lorry maker has designed a twin clutch box but its an expensive option and the take up so far is very few units.
Probably the same now with buses GB, back when i drove them, most had t/c auto's, the only ones which i suspected had the automated manual was a pair of Neoplan Skyliners. They were fine out on the main road, but at slow speeds there was avery pronounced delay chainging from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. Also, if pulling away uphill, you had to keep the handbrake on a second or two after pressing the throttle as the delay in anything happening would result in you rolling back slightly!.
My brother is a truck driver and the outfit he worked at last always used manuals (4 axle Scania tippers), they have a huge fleet (for this area), probably around 30 of them. My brother would much rather have had the 'auto' (i'm guessing from what you say, this would actually have been an automated manual), but the boss was real 'old school', didn't like them (even though he didn't actually drive any), and so wouldn't buy them.
Is it possible that the lack of dual clutch gearboxes in trucks is due to the enormous torque it would have to deal with?, a single clutch job being that bit simpler and maybe easier to make robust enough?. Just thinking out loud!.
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Is it possible that the lack of dual clutch gearboxes in trucks is due to the enormous torque it would have to deal with?, a single clutch job being that bit simpler and maybe easier to make robust enough?. Just thinking out loud!.
You are probably on the money there, i understand that the maker of the twin clutch jobbie doesn't offer it with the most powerful engine option, 700+ hp, and offroad work is very hard on the drivetrain, but i would always want a manual for such work for more control offroad, though in all honesty neither of the Swedish lorry makers have offered a good manual box in all my years, all have baulked,
This year the two most common lorry boxes have had major improvements and are now much better drives, including maneuvering, so how come the car makers can't make their AM boxes last or any good to drive come to that.
Edited by gordonbennet on 03/09/2018 at 20:13
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I remember driving a Leyland Leopard with the auto pneumatic change, brilliant when it worked, loved drivng it, think it had the 500 series diesel, barked like anything up hill with a full load, hear it for miles! They had the same engine and transmission on a Leyland Beaver back in the 70's with an option of a twin speed back axle, 10 speed auto truck by Leyland!
My in laws are on thier second piccasso with the ecg box and its been faultless so far, maybe its when it has covered a few miles. I like to have fresh oil in the transmission every few years, could this be the cause of the change problems?
Done a little more digging and the 2ltr has the fluid flywheel and some say it is a better auto box. On another, possibly a Ford forum, a post said the 1.6 was designed by Ford and the 2ltr by Peugeot using the basic block and crank from the XUD Series
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The 2.0 is based on the old 2.0 8v HDi that dates back to the late 90’s and is a much more robust engine than the 1.6, though to be fair later examples are much improved I still wouldn’t buy one or recommend one nor would I buy anything with PSA’s automated manual gearbox. It’s not the best in operation but it is proving more reliable than Ford’s Powershift or VAG’s DSG but any issues with it will be very expensive to rectify and as French cars age they tend to suffer plenty of electrical trickery thanks to poor quality components and haphazard design. If you absolutely must I’d try to find a 2.0 manual. If it must be an auto I’d buy something else.
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Thanks for all the advice so far, with this in mind I think I'd be better off with the 2ltr Manual. Out of curiosity, if I should look at an auto, what shoud I be looking at? A Tiguan, Mokka or scenic, hang on thats french, as mentioned, probelms with electrics!
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Ideally you want to be avoiding anything with an automated manual gearbox, which rules out the Tiguan and (i'm pretty sure) the Scenic. I think the Mokka has a t/c auto, but from what i have read, they are not that great and smaller than the other cars you have mentioned (smaller than a Meriva). To be honest, i don't really rate anything you have mentioned!, sorry.
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Forget the VW, the issues with the DSG box are well documented and almost certain at this age and money. The Renault is as bad as the Citroen for ropey electrics but it does use a conventional auto box which is usually ok but you’ll find a never-ending supply of wallet eating minor repairs with any older French motor. The Mokka uses a normal auto too which is fine but the diesels are all of Fiat design and again weak in the longterm, the petrols are fine. I’d rather have a Honda Civic 1.8 auto, Mazda 3 2.0 Skyactiv or Toyota Auris 1.6 CVT all over f which will be pain free to own.
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.... you’ll find a never-ending supply of wallet eating minor repairs with any older French motor.
You'll all be tired of hearing this, but my Pug 207, which was built in January 2008, has so far not eaten anything from my wallet, either mechanical or electrical, despite living outdoors for the last 10 years. The only electrical item which I believe may not work is the rear-screen demister, on a hatch-window in the tailgate - I suspect the wiring may suffer if the hatch is opened frequently. No bulb failures yet.
So it may depend on how you define 'older'. After considering whether I should bother to change the cambelt (10 yrs or 140K) I decided I might as well keep the car, so I had that done a few weeks ago.
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as French cars age they tend to suffer plenty of electrical trickery thanks to poor quality components and haphazard design.
Is this still true? I've been looking at the (whisper it) Peugeot 308 SW and it appeals to me for comfortable seats and ride, plus the boot with seats down is a really good size. The touch screen interface for heating/ventilation is silly, but the base model Active does away with the screen in favour of buttons, plus steel wheels and conventional handbrake, perfect for me. The puretech engines look promising, although like all new small capacity petrol engines they haven't proved their robustness.
No, you're right, how many old French cars do you still see on the road? Disregard everything that I said...
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