Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help!

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Wed 9 May 2018 12:36
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - britain4
I recently bought a used 03 BMW 745i from a used car dealer. The car was advertised as low mileage, with a full main dealer service history and no faults. I paid the top end of what the car was worth based on these factors and the overall condition.

Although irrelevant to the fault, the car had so little petrol in it when picked up on the Thursday 22nd March that it didn’t make it 2 miles to the nearest petrol station. The car was misfiring during this time but I assumed this was due to being low on petrol. On filling it up with petrol, I drove it the 25 mile motorway drive home with no issue.

Over the weekend I noticed the car misfiring at idle when warmed up. I phoned the garage I bought the car from on Monday 26th who said to take it back to them on Tuesday the 3rd of April and they would sort it out, probably an O2 sensor and that it would probably be done by the weekend.

Over a week passed with no contact from the garage so I phoned them up to be informed the “usual” garage couldn’t find what was up with it, so it was booked in at a specialist the following week and said he would keep me posted. The following week I phoned again and was told that the specialist hadn’t got round to looking at it yet. This continued until I phoned the specialist and was told they couldn’t find out what was wrong with it either, but suspected the ECU, and that the dealer had taken the car to Sytner BMW.

I phoned the dealer again on Wednesday 2nd who said the car was with Sytner, that they had found a fault with the ECU and were waiting on the part from Germany, and that he had no idea when this would arrive but would let me know when it was done.

I phoned Sytner BMW yesterday (Tuesday 8th) and was told that the issue was with the Valvetronic levers and that they had emailed a quote to the dealer on Thursday 3rd and not yet recieved a reply. They had no knowledge of any ECU faults or parts arriving from Germany.

I phoned the dealer again this morning to be told they couldn’t help me because the guy dealing with it is away until the 16th and to phone back then. I have never been contacted by the dealership at any point about when I will recieve the car back and would have been left in the dark for over a month had I not contacted them first.

My patience has run out with this situation now, it’s already been over 5 weeks and will be 6 with no work having commenced on the car. I am using a borrowed car which needs returning and have no other way of commuting to my new job which I start in 2 weeks’ time. I wondered if anyone here would have any advice on where to go from here - the bill for the repair is likely to be close to the amount that I paid for it and I am expecting the dealer to try to avoid paying it.

What would anyone else do from here?

Edited by britain4 on 09/05/2018 at 12:36

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Wed 9 May 2018 13:28
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - badbusdriver

Given that you were paying top whack for the car, you shouldn't have driven away with such a small amount of fuel in it. Also, you should have turned around and went straight back to the garage when it started misfiring. You say that this is irrelevant to the fault, but do you know this for a fact?. These are highly complex cars, and i'm guessing running out of fuel ain't gonna do it any good at all. As it is 15 years old, some grit or something could have been sucked up from the bottom of the tank.

You don't say how long you have owned the car or whether or not there was a warranty (which, as you were paying over the odds for the car, i'd certainly have expected). I believe there may be a case for rejecting the car, but as to the ins and outs of this, i'm not sure. I think there is info on this site about that, but i can't post a link, as i couldn't find it!.

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Wed 9 May 2018 13:55
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - britain4
Not “top whack” but definitely a small premium for the mileage + service history and overall condition. I should have returned to the garage with it as soon as I realised how little petrol was in the tank but as I was advised by the dealer to “drive it straight to a petrol station” i thought I could make it. It wouldn’t have made it back to the garage by the time it started spluttering and so I shut the car off.

Anyway the Valvetronic issue is a known one which gradually happens over time through wear and tear and I’m sure BMW would be happy to confirm that running out of petrol could not cause the damage.

I picked up the car on Thursday 22nd March. I contacted the dealers about it on Monday 26th and was “booked in” on Tuesday 3rd April. Since then I have not seen the car. The car did come with a 30-day warranty not covering electrical faults.

I would have thought that a fault within the first day of owning the car with a repair bill in the thousands, as well as the car being in garages for over 6 weeks within a week of be buying it would qualify for rejecting it, even assuming the fault did develop after I picked it up, but such a resolution would leave me out of pocket and with no car.

Edited by britain4 on 09/05/2018 at 14:08

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Wed 9 May 2018 14:46
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - badbusdriver

Here are a couple of links to relevant articles on rejecting a used car, including the Honest John one,

www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/legal-motoring-advice/20.../

www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/34744...s

You say the valvetronic issue is a known one which happens gradually over time, if so, surely it would have been prudent to look for a car where this issue had already happened and been resolved?. Also, when i did a quick search on the issue, one of the 1st results i found suggests that it actual occurs due to incorrect or overdue servicing,

bmwspecialistreading.co.uk/valvetronic-engines/

As a petrolhead, i can well understand the appeal of a car like this, but you really are on a hiding to nothing, they are just so complex, with so many things to go expensively wrong. What a lot of people seem to be oblivious to is the fact that while you may be paying 5, 6, 7 grand or whatever, the servicing and maintenence costs are going to be as a 50, 60 or 70 grand car, as it was when new. Also, due to the march of technology, a lot of the electrical stuff will potentially become obsolete very quickly if it hasn't already. I read various classic car magazines, and this is a very real problem for owners of fancy cars like this from the late 80's onwards. Electrical devices and gadgets became more and more commonplace, but there is no means to replace or repair a lot of this stuff, leading to perfectly good cars being laid up or scrapped through relatively minor problems.

I know it is not the drivers choice, but the only vehicle of this nature i'd consider parting my own money for, would be a Lexus LS430 or 460. Not much help i know, but hey ho!.

But i hope you get some resolution.

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Wed 9 May 2018 15:50
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - pd

The problem here is that under law a very complicated 15 year old BMW only has to be to a standard a "reasonable" person would expect a 15 year old very complicated car to be. That doesn't mean fault free.

As even this thread shows, different people will have differrent views.

No one can really tell you that you have concrete grounds for rejection, no one can really tell you that you don't either. The law is very vague and open to interpretation on an older used car - particularly one like this.

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Wed 9 May 2018 17:06
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - badbusdriver

Yes, as this is a known fault on a 15 year old car, it could easily be argued that the OP should have budgeted for the repair, or sought out a car which already had the valvetronic problem rectified.

Not a great place to be in though.

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Wed 9 May 2018 17:46
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - britain4

Thank you for the links on rejecting a car, may come in useful although I hope not.

Yes it might have been prudent to find one that had already been done - but this car has an immaculate main dealer service history. It also has low mileage (just over 70000 - lower than these sorts of faults typically surface at from what I've read) and the last owner had it for 12 years. Wonder why he finally decided to trade it in...! I don't believe the issue has come about due to incorrect servicing unless of course the BMW mileage based intervals are what's done it in coupled with low mileages over many months. I did have a look at the comparable Lexuses - lovely cars and would serve me perfectly but I've always had a soft spot for the E65. I might have to consider one if this doesn't work out.

Anyway, whatever happens it's a lesson learned. Relied too much on mileage and service history instead of going for a higher mile one that's already had the jobs done.

Minor faults I would be perfectly happy to just shrug off and either ignore or repair at my own cost. This one makes the car quite unpleasant to drive and had the car been sold with the issue it would have been worth a fraction of what I paid. I wouldn't spend £500 on an old Astra that idled as poorly as this does.

I have budgeted for the eye-watering bills but was hoping it wasn't going to need one as soon as I'd picked it up!

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Thu 10 May 2018 13:41
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - Gibbo_Wirral

It also has low mileage (just over 70000 - lower than these sorts of faults typically surface at from what I've read) and the last owner had it for 12 years.

Faults and parts reaching end of life aren't just mileage dependent, they can be age dependent too.

I had to replace the engine mount on a very low mileage car. But it was 15 years old.

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Wed 9 May 2018 22:11
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - SLO76
Reject it and fight for a full refund. I’d then advise a rethink. Buying a highly complex top of the line luxury car like this at 15yrs old is a total disaster waiting to happen. Either up your budget substantially and buy a good approved used example or live within your means with a more modest and much less complex car. Third option is to buy one which you can afford to write off when (and yes it will) it goes bang big style.

I’ve had this conversation with many customers over the years who asked me to source something exotic on a limited budget. One insisted he had to have a Jag Xj6 and no amount of effort on my part could talk him out of it. I refused to source one to sell to him but agreed to look at one on his behalf at a nearby dealer, a very nice 1985 B XJ6 4.2 in burgundy - this was a long time ago.

Great condition, solid, loads of paperwork, low mileage, everything stacked up yet I still tried to talk him out of it. He bought it and it expired with a bang two weeks later, while he was exercising it at 120mph on the local bypass - idiot. He was left paying a loan for a car he should never have bought in the first place with no means of recompense back then especially on an old car like this which was sold as seen and rightly so.

Dealers who stock this type of thing have a reputation for being dodgy, you couldn’t make a thing from selling complex stuff like this as it would bite you in the ass constantly with bills way way beyond the profit margin on any of them. They’re almost always fly by night limited firms which bust the current trading name rather than pay out a claim against them. I don’t think this is the case here as they do seem to be spending money trying to fix it but best of luck anyway.

Edited by SLO76 on 09/05/2018 at 22:35

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Thu 10 May 2018 15:19
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - pd

Out of interest what exactly is wrong with the VANOS?

The first port of call with VANOS issues is usually to replace the solenoids. They bung up and wont activate on the inlet and/or outlet. You can try cleaning them.

I'm guessing there are four on this car and they're about £60 each from memory.

By all means try for a refund but if the dealer says a flat no I think you've got a very long and painful fight on your hands with only a 50% chance of success.

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Fri 11 May 2018 10:52
Trouble with used car bought from dealer - help! - britain4
I hope not to have to reject it as I would be out of pocket in insurance and tax and still left with no car. I knew about the big bills before I bought it but wasn’t anticipating one as soon as I drove it off the forecourt.

I don’t plan on thrashing it nor do I have a loan on it so at least there’s that! But I’ll have that mental image in my head now every time I think about it!

I certainly don’t think the dealer is “dodgy” (or I very much hope not) as they have certainly gone to some lengths so far to get the car sorted rather than just sticking with the “they all do that sir” line. However I am anticipating the dealer being unwilling to pay the bill on this as I get the feeling it’s going to be a big one (unfortunately I couldn’t bring myself to ask!) I’ll know more next week hopefully when the dealer gets back off his holiday!

The issues according to BMW are due to wear on the Valvetronic eccentric shafts. I assume the car switches over to the system shortly after startup and if so this would explain why it only does it at operating temp. There is a chance you could be right on that though... the car mostly idled very roughly but occasionally much better, and you wouldn’t think it could ever work properly if they were worn out - but it’s such a complicated system anything could be happening. That is assuming that the VANOS could be causing it instead of the Valvetronic as they are both separate systems.

To save myself a lot of stress - there is a BMW bulletin with a “workaround” to the issue. I am strongly considering accepting that it was partially my mistake in buying it, taking the car back and applying the workaround. Only as a last resort if the dealer won’t fix it or give me a refund of course. Preferably with some kind of contribution towards the cost of the repair. Then it’ll be a valuable lesson learned in choosing a car!

Edited by britain4 on 11/05/2018 at 10:54

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