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Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - Sulphur Man

This morning, I was delayed slightly by the Friday refuse collection in my area - no big deal, the obstruction causing the delay was caused as much by parked vehicles as the collection itself.

However, whilst waiting, I did notice that the driver of the refuse lorry was also actively involved in the bin retrieval, emptying and return. The lorry was therefore running, not parked, no one at the wheel. Once the collection in that bit was done, he then popped back in the cab and drove another 15 metres on, at which point I could get by.

Had a google on the legality of this, with conflicting results

1) The engine of the bin lorry has to be on for the compactor and hydraulics to work

2) There is a safety switch at the rear to cut the engine if needed

3) The law that says its illegal to leave a car unattended and running is not applicable to vehicles that require the engine to be running for loading/processing purposes, eg. refuse lorry, skip mover, cherry picker etc.

I accept 3) in principle, but not so sure the safety aspect is adequately covered in the 'use case' of bin lorries, where they're stop-starting down a road, without parking, every 2 mins. This feels much closer to the illegal act of leaving a vehicle unattended with its engine running, even if there's a mechanism to override it at the back (so what, the 'driver' may be busy retrieving bins elsewhere)

Feels like the law is being pushed too far - perhaps by the cost of a dedicated driver staying behind the wheel. Maybe a bit cynical, but struggling to see the difference to how this law is applied to cars and LGVs.

Thoughts?

Edited by Sulphur Man on 13/04/2018 at 14:02

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - SLO76
I certainly know as a bus driver I’m not supposed to leave the cab without the parking brake on, the engine turned off and the electrics isolated, this is company policy. Not sure how the law differs on bin trucks if at all but I’m not going to complain as long as the thing is in neutral and the parking brake is on. It reduces the delay and improves the productivity I receive for my taxes.
Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - alan1302

Thoughts?

Would go with number 3 - just like a skip mover - the lorry is left running whilst they are putting the skip on the back. In this case they are emptying the bins whilst having to leave the engine running.

If you are comparing to cars then can you ever think of a situation where you would need to leave the engin running whilst outside of the car?

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - gordonbennet

You'll find hundreds of vehicle left running whilst the driver goes about his work, car transporters and pressure road tankers being two obvious examples with engine driven hydraulics and/or compressors, though sensible drivers of the above who have to work in dodgy areas (anywhere other than where david cameron and his cronies live) will have a second key to lock the cab with whilst they go about their business.

Maybe there is a locking mechanism on the refuse vehicles concerned, similar to police and paramedic vehicles which will be left running for extended periods whilst they go about their work.

Some refuse drivers don't leave the cab, maybe the round concerned the driver is doing the general public a favour by helping and speeding the job up as well as making the day for all of the team shorter, though they better be careful cos another half a dozen new suits will be recruited and before they know it the round will be extended because they are too efficient.

Edited by gordonbennet on 13/04/2018 at 14:28

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - Bolt

Some refuse drivers don't leave the cab, maybe the round concerned the driver is doing the general public a favour by helping and speeding the job up as well as making the day for all of the team shorter, though they better be careful cos another half a dozen new suits will be recruited and before they know it the round will be extended because they are too efficient.

driver is helping as I said, I knew several bin men and drivers, problem they have is they have so many roads to do in a certain time, which dont really make em efficient if they drop anything, which is a lot depending on dustmen, they dont bother picking it up

and often they crush wine/glass bottles that get launched from the rear over the road,(not everyone recycles glass) its left there for someone else to clear up-which it usually doesnt, cars spread it around the road

they like to be finished in time to empty the dustcart, park up, and go home!

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - Andrew-T

<< If you are comparing to cars can you think of a situation where you would need to leave the engine running whilst outside of the car? >>

If it's your car you would make sure not to do that. Not many likely thieves for a bin lorry though.

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - Sofa Spud

Surely the biggest risk in a situation like this is of the vehicle rolling away because the parking brake is defective. That could happen regardless of whether the engine is running or not. Most refuse lorries these days are automatic, with a 'park' position on the selector that locks the transmission.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 13/04/2018 at 14:26

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - Bolt

those drivers have been helping the men for years after the cutbacks were brought in, so its nothing new, my late father used to be foreman on our council who helped repair them untill the work was sent out private

even the rams on the rear are all set to max pressure, where years ago they did not need to be, but as they are doing more clearing in less time they need to compact it more

and if councils get there way clearing times will be 4 weekly instead of 2 for most things including recycling

Edited by bolt on 13/04/2018 at 14:44

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - badbusdriver

I passed a bin lorry in a rural location the other day and as far as i could tell, it was just the driver by himself.

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - Gerry Sanderson

Whilst Reg 98 MV Con and Use Regs 1986 place a prohibition of leaving a vehicle with engine running there is a specific exemption where the machinery is required to be worked for a purpose other than driving the vehicle; i. operating the bin lift at the rear.

Dvd

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - Bolt

It used to work that the driver was not allowed to leave the cab but after the cutbacks started and the bin collection was outsourced.

the driver was allowed to leave the cab if it was to assist in speeding the collection where it caused heavy traffic build up (or) the collection was later in the day due to bank holiday as they had to be eptied by 4pm at local council tip_

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - Simon

At least one council in my area uses a system where by the driver of the bin lorry has an electronic transponder attached to his belt. Thus if he leaves the driving seat it inhibits the movement of the vehicle and if I remember correctly it achieves this by not allowing the hand brake to be released.

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - argybargy

The following doesn't answer the question of legality, but it may address the safety aspect of leaving a large vehicle unmanned with the engine running.

On fire engines there is a power take off (PTO) mechanism in the cab which allows the engine power to be diverted to the water pump at the rear of the appliance; it can only be set when the vehicle is stationary. When this is engaged, the transmission is locked and the vehicle cannot be driven.

Chances are the driver of a refuse lorry has to engage a similar mechanism before leaving the cab in order to operate the bin lifting gear, and that therefore the vehicle could not be driven away whilst the crew are working. Unless, that is, the potential thief knows how to unlock the power take off.

Edited by argybargy on 14/04/2018 at 13:52

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - Bilboman

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WxnkqYkrdw This is how they do it in big cities in Spain: the driver oversees the picking up and emptying up remotely via a control panel with CCTV so he can stay inside the warm, dry cab. It's a very quick operation and doesn't hold up the traffic too much. Once a week a cleaning truck does the rounds and lifts up the container to give it a swoosh with disinfectant. General rubbish is collected six nights a week and there are separate trucks for organic waste, bottles, plastic/metal containers. (Yes, that's six nights a week; it wasn't a typo!)

Bin lorries - is the driver allowed to leave cab? - daveyK_UK
After the tragic accident in Glasgow that lead to people losing their lives, I would have thought no council or contractor would now permit a driver not to be behind the wheel at all times.