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self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - focussed

It's the first time this has happened. Police said that a safety tester was in the driver's seat when the crash happened, but that the vehicle was in self-driving mode.

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/03/19/driverle...e-

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - ExA35Owner

Without the details of the circumstances it's hard to draw any conclusion at all.Wise to suspend these trials until investigation is carried out.

However in a contrarian view, "pedestrian killed in collision with lorry in London: all lorry traffic suspended" wouldn't be an appropriate reaction - yet it matches the Uber response.....

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - focussed

Some more information on the situation on these cars in the state of Arizona.

It sounds like the state has become a regulation free zone for autonomous cars.

www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/technology/arizona-tech...s

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Terry W

No consolation for the familiy but worth noting that over 30000 road fatalities pa in the US.

Unlike most serious acidents there should be a wealth of data to understand precisely what happened from on board systems. This should not be a reason for the luddites to try and derail driverless transport it is not a case of if, but when!

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - gordonbennet

Hope the progressives won't mind a few lorry platoons going off route with predictable results then, wreaking utter carnage on an industrial scale, hopefully a few hundred (ordinary citizens) killed won't make any difference either.

Us Luddites are not so sure these utopian dreams will prove to be anything but a living nightmare.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Manatee

Us Luddites are not so sure these utopian dreams will prove to be anything but a living nightmare.

I'm in no hurry to see driverless cars, but compare with trains - they don't stop for jaywalkers.

We might well end up with transport on the roads that we just have to learn to keep out of the way of, as we do with trains. Physically separated lorry lanes on motorways?

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Andrew-T

<< I'm in no hurry to see driverless cars, but compare with trains - they don't stop for jaywalkers. >>

I assume that remark is made tongue-in-cheek. A train cannot be steered off its line of travel even if the driver wanted - and any 'road users' (there shouldn't be any in this country) can always anticipate what a train will do. They take a lot longer to stop as well ....

Edited by Andrew-T on 20/03/2018 at 09:29

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - gordonbennet
We might well end up with transport on the roads that we just have to learn to keep out of the way of, as we do with trains. Physically separated lorry lanes on motorways?

An interesting idea, how it would work in practice i don't quite know, maybe there could be a fenced off road that other vehicles cannot access, maybe with some guide rails for the wheels to run on, and one or several linked very powerful tractive lorry(s) could pull a batch of say 30/50 trailers along...oh wait..:-)

No i'm only pulling your leg MT, we should have had an intergrated planned transport system where road and rail worked hand in hand years ago (Freightliner principle), unfortunately our leaders are only in it for themselves their trouser pockets and their glory, few think of the genuine long term good of the nation, some of those that have done so have been hounded out of office over various things only to be proved right in the long term.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Bolt

Unlike most serious acidents there should be a wealth of data to understand precisely what happened from on board systems.

Its always possible the on board systems had no idea a person was there, these systems are not perfect and never will be, unless the person walked out into the car (no one knows yet) so it couldnt react in time, or the person was invisible to the sensors?

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - expat

Unlike most serious acidents there should be a wealth of data to understand precisely what happened from on board systems.

When they do find out the reason for the fatality then they should be able to modify the software to make sure that fault never happens again. That is where the autonomous vehicle is better than the human driver. We can improve the software but cannot improve human drivers. We all know that there are a great many human drivers out there who could do with a software upgrade!

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - gordonbennet

When they do find out the reason for the fatality then they should be able to modify the software to make sure that fault never happens again. That is where the autonomous vehicle is better than the human driver. We can improve the software but cannot improve human drivers. We all know that there are a great many human drivers out there who could do with a software upgrade!

Where there is a driver in control of a vehicle you have someone that is responsible.

The thorny issue of responsibility, so far, always rests with the driver, if you have automated braking or steering (as appears to be fitted to cars now, not mine matey) that interferes and causes an accident instead of preventing one, the driver is still responsible...oh and if you drive a lorry and after experiencing false harsh braking for no reason and turn the systems off you will be disciplined harshly and more than likely sacked.

The legalities of all of this need sorting soonest.

Why are you sure the robotised vehicle will be better?, the autonomous vehicle will never be able to monitor assimilate and react to visual aural and seat of pants feel the huge amount of information that the good human driver does, and gradually removing driving skills from drivers of all sorts of vehicles as is now underway is lowering the driving skill level at an alarming rate as it is...ie we have people behind the wheel who cannot perform a hill start, let alone actually control a vehicle on a slippery road without the electronics.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Bolt

When they do find out the reason for the fatality then they should be able to modify the software to make sure that fault never happens again. That is where the autonomous vehicle is better than the human driver. We can improve the software but cannot improve human drivers. We all know that there are a great many human drivers out there who could do with a software upgrade!

Where there is a driver in control of a vehicle you have someone that is responsible.

The thorny issue of responsibility, so far, always rests with the driver, if you have automated braking or steering (as appears to be fitted to cars now, not mine matey) that interferes and causes an accident instead of preventing one, the driver is still responsible...oh and if you drive a lorry and after experiencing false harsh braking for no reason and turn the systems off you will be disciplined harshly and more than likely sacked.

The legalities of all of this need sorting soonest.

Why are you sure the robotised vehicle will be better?, the autonomous vehicle will never be able to monitor assimilate and react to visual aural and seat of pants feel the huge amount of information that the good human driver does, and gradually removing driving skills from drivers of all sorts of vehicles as is now underway is lowering the driving skill level at an alarming rate as it is...ie we have people behind the wheel who cannot perform a hill start, let alone actually control a vehicle on a slippery road without the electronics.

I`m not so sure legaly blame can be put on anyone, or an item, as components have a habit of failing that no company/person has control over

it`s odd now when talking to people years ago about autonomy, people used to be worried about what happens to those made redundant by these motors, talking to people now, do not seem to care who is left out of work by these motors

Computers as we know can have software tweeked but I still think they are way off yet and there will be scenarios that a software upgrade will not take into account, there are also times when a camera/sensors can see things that do not exist and not see things that are there, try compensating for that!

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Manatee

Even when they make mistakes, they will be better than people in terms of net casualties. That's the case for them.

But I don't think they are there yet. Certainly not in terms of being able to have traffic mixed with human-operated vehicles.

Edited by Manatee on 20/03/2018 at 09:02

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - NARU

.. but cannot improve human drivers....

I disagree. We could bring in mandatory top-up training every few years. It has always seemed daft to me that we do not.

How crazy that I can pass my test at 17 and never have to do another day of training, ever. And I only give up driving when I self-declare that I'm past it?

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - focussed

A few years ago, graduated driving licences were proposed to the UK government of the day by a highly qualified driver educator, degree level education, ex traffic police, DVLA instructor, ROSPA and AIM examiner - you are unlikely to find a man with better qualifications to teach and assess driving.

He put together a detailed, sensible workable plan for the UK government to introduce graduated driver licencing, the current driving test was only the entry qualification, further training, experience and assessment would eventually lead up to full licence qualification.

It was rejected out of hand by the then conservative government - "it's a vote loser" was the comment.

There you have it in a nutshell.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Andrew-T

This should not be a reason for the luddites to try and derail driverless transport it is not a case of if, but when!

... not a case of if, or when, but why? A 'perfect' driverless car depends on software designers having dreamt up every possible scenario the vehicle may need to respond to. I suggest that is a very tall order. The Uber accident had a human on board as well - what was he/she doing?

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Bolt

This should not be a reason for the luddites to try and derail driverless transport it is not a case of if, but when!

... not a case of if, or when, but why? A 'perfect' driverless car depends on software designers having dreamt up every possible scenario the vehicle may need to respond to. I suggest that is a very tall order. The Uber accident had a human on board as well - what was he/she doing?

won`t matter what they were doing, as the cars system possibly(not known yet) did not see the pedestrian, the person in it for emergency reasons, would not have been able to react fast enough anyway, so I cannot see the point of having a stand by driver?

and I agree it is a very tall order and has too many scenarios including possible ghosts in the machine

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - gordonbennet

So someone vegetating behind the wheel for hours on end is supposed to monitor continually (what's the point in the robot at all?), and with no regular or current driving/handling practice, instantly take over make the right decisions in that split second have seat of the pants feel what is happening under the wheels and so put right the mistakes our imperfect robot had already made inevitable.

Well good luck with that, you couldn't pay me enough to be the guinea pig responsible for the machines failures.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - corax

This should not be a reason for the luddites to try and derail driverless transport it is not a case of if, but when!

... not a case of if, or when, but why? A 'perfect' driverless car depends on software designers having dreamt up every possible scenario the vehicle may need to respond to. I suggest that is a very tall order.

In the UK surely it would be particularly difficult given our old and complicated road systems through most villages and towns. If it was to work at all, maybe better in new towns like Milton Keynes.

If there is someone on board, and something goes wrong, how much time do they have to react before they realise? That's one scenario where I would have thought humans were not suitable at all, sitting there with nothing to do and getting bored and tired.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Manatee

The objective cannot be the perfect driverless car. It is unachievable. Human drivers are far from perfect, self-driving cars only need to be demonstrably better.

It's not surprising that the human minder failed to catch any error. The error had probably been made by then, instead of being avoided, or ideally of the situation that made the error more likely would have been avoided.

Human minders will in any case lose their driving skills if they cease driving themselves. Not just the vehicle control skils but observation, prediction, reaction, decision-making.

It has happened with aviation. Look up flight AF447 to read about how the pilots flew a perfectly serviceable aircraft into the sea from 30,000 feet when the autopilot disconnected itself (as it was designed to do) when the airpseed indicators briefly iced up. 228 people died. There are other examples. But notwithstanding, flying is still much safer than it was before the current levels of automation were commonplace.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - bluezzr1100

Bad as humans are we are far more sophisticated than machines at present. When artificial intelligence is perfected that will be the time to make cars driverless.

Do you set the car to brave mode or cautious mode? If the latter it will never pull out into a stream of traffic in this country when you consider how closely cars folow each other!

Of course it will work fine if all of the sensors keep working perfectly and conscientious drivers clean all of the cameras and sensors every day or immediately they or the screen in front of it gets covered in muck.

Can't see it working as things stand but when they perfect a robot that behaves like a human it will be feasible in my view-we just aren't quite there yet.

While we are at it, why not let's all stay in bed all day and let the robots have all the fun?

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Engineer Andy

It's the first time this has happened. Police said that a safety tester was in the driver's seat when the crash happened, but that the vehicle was in self-driving mode.

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/03/19/driverle...e-

I bet the local lawyers are just rubbing their hands in wild anticipation of a $Bn court case...and sadly I suspect they alone will be the only beneficiaries out of this unfortunate incident.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - RichardW

Intital investigation suggests Pedestrian at fault....

www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-Tem...0

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - 520i

Well, that was always going to happen eventually. Now we can all watch the mega corporations covering it up so they can get on with dominating the universe - or indeed maybe they staged the whole thing in order to condition us plebs and minions for the inevitable reality that their precious robots aren't quite so infallibly superior to humanity after all. It doesn't really matter of course, so long as they still succeed in controlling every aspect of humanity. The police have been quoted as saying it was doing 38 in a 35, perhaps it was having a 'computer says no' moment.

Thank heavens our roads and infrastructure are generations away from this cr*p ever being any sort of reality over here.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - gordonbennet

Thank heavens our roads and infrastructure are generations away from this cr*p ever being any sort of reality over here.

Amen to that.

There are many (mainly younger) lorry drivers worried about their jobs on the lorry forum i go on due to automation, does anyone in their wildest dreams imagine what any major population area of Britain would be like, apart from at 3am on a Sunday morning which is when they'll perform the tests, should an armada of driverless lorries be let loose, the much vaunted platooning alone will cause mayhem,

The progressives seem convinced that these companies wouldn't be pouring £billions into research unless a breakthrough was close, but what they fail to grasp is that there are whole armies of people making lucrative long term livings from the grants/funds thrown at such things...global warming industry a prime example, industries within industries doing very nicely ta very much...as SWMBO often says about these wheezes, it beats the hell out of working for a living.

Edited by gordonbennet on 20/03/2018 at 15:06

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Bolt

Well, that was always going to happen eventually. Now we can all watch the mega corporations covering it up so they can get on with dominating the universe - or indeed maybe they staged the whole thing in order to condition us plebs and minions for the inevitable reality that their precious robots aren't quite so infallibly superior to humanity after all. It doesn't really matter of course, so long as they still succeed in controlling every aspect of humanity. The police have been quoted as saying it was doing 38 in a 35, perhaps it was having a 'computer says no' moment.

Thank heavens our roads and infrastructure are generations away from this cr*p ever being any sort of reality over here.

computers can only work on info received, its possible, though unknown yet, that the bags on the bike could have stopped the scan and registered as nothing there,

also it was stated it was in a dark area which says the sensors are not capable of registering anything in the dark or didnt have infra red scanning as well which I thought they had?

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Terry W

We need to understand why the accident happened before jumping to conclusions - eg: if the pedestrian was incapacitated by drink or drugs and walked into the road without looking the outcome may have been the same irrespective of whether the car was driven by homo sapien or computer. Driverless technology will not eliminate accidents.

Assessing driverless technology needs care and obejectivity, not judge it on the basis of how it may umpact us personally (wishful thinking), History is full of new technologies which displace jobs and change behaviours. Competitive pressure will lead to its implementation, denial will change nothing.

The only question is when, not if.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Bolt

The only question is when, not if.

Imagine the queues of ex drivers in years to come that cannot get a job because driverless cars have taken the job from them. modern tech has a habit of removing a person from a job

no taxi drivers no lorry drivers or delivery van drivers just motors with no one behind the wheel and companies making a bomb not having to pay wages to people, for companies I can see the attraction.

I`m kinda surprised government is pushing this tech, knowing the unemployment rate will skyrocket and them being broke no benefit to pay them.

the future is looking bright isnt it!

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Andrew-T

<< computers can only work on info received, >>

But just imagine all the hacking possibilities. Naughty people used to just capture the remote codes from the transponder. Now the sky is the limit - if you can handle a drone .... It'll be more fun than playing Star Wars.

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Bolt

<< computers can only work on info received, >>

But just imagine all the hacking possibilities. Naughty people used to just capture the remote codes from the transponder. Now the sky is the limit - if you can handle a drone .... It'll be more fun than playing Star Wars.

I knew I missed something, thanks for that, yes I can see them being so much fun for some hackers, I must be the only person that has never watched star wars- I`m a star trek fan myself, closer to reality in my view :)

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - ExA35Owner

As details emerge it seems that self-driving wasn't the issue here. Looks like a human driver would have had the same result.(the waters are muddied by the alleged record of the supervisor/driver).

In the end if self-driving cars have a significantly lower collision or injury rate than human-driven cars, then surely we should support the development?

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Bolt

then surely we should support the development

I doubt we will need to if its a moneymaker for companies as they will get rid of drivers and use Self Driving motors

profit will be more important than humans, and, unless your one of the redundant drivers you probably will support it

personally I think robots have taken over enough jobs over the years, and there is a limit as to how many people the government can support without a job

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - focussed

Regarding this incident in which the unfortunate pedestrian/cyclist was killed, there is something being unearthed here which is very disturbing, if this report from the DM is true.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5527575/Operator-...l

self-driving Uber 4 x4 (Volvo?) - Driverless car kills pedestrian. - Bolt

arstechnica.com/cars/2018/05/emergency-brakes-were.../

this is interesting as a followup to this accident that should not have happened....