After leaving home for a long journey yesterday I noticed 2 cars in quick succesion that had broken down. I decided to try and count the number of broken down vehicles on the road during my journey to try and relieve boredom.
I saw 2 Hondas, 2 Vauxhalls, 1 Ford, 1 Toyota, 1 V.W. and 1 Nissan.
To be fair the toyota was an old supra with full bodykit and wings and deserved to be broken down and the V.W. was an old transporter van but all the others were relatively modern.
The one noticable thing about this is that out of 8 vehicles 4 of them were japanese.
An awfull lot of the people on this site go on and on about Japanese reliability which frankly doesn't appear to exist. I know they always top the reliability charts but most reps and animals like myself don't own them so they are always going to do well as they don't get a particularly harsh life.
I'm not saying most old people own a Honda but you know what I mean, it's always the sensible ones.
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On the other hand, how many old Japanese cars do you see, and how few end up in the scrapyard? Also, I can't say I recall seeing many broken down Japanese cars of any age in my travels, and one journey can hardly be representative.
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>>To be fair the toyota was an old supra with full bodykit and wings and deserved to be broken down and the V.W. was an old transporter van but all the others were relatively modern<<
Hurumph!! How dare you sir. ;-)
Mark III I presume?
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> I know they always top the reliability charts but most reps and animals like myself don't own them so they are always going to do well as they don't get a particularly harsh life.
But neither would a Vauxhall Corsa, or Citroen Saxo, or Fiat Punto. Yet none of these are high up in the chart either.
Anyway, I'd say the majority of Nissan Primeras sold either go to fleets or to cabbies, and both are flogged. Yet the Primera still scores consistently highly. I don't think the argument holds much water frankly.
Our family has owned Nissans, old Nissans, for as far back as I can remember. And with only one exception, they've *all* hit the scrapyard after 15 years or so from rust-related issues, with all the major mechanical parts still very chipper thankyou very much. Not so the Vauxhalls. The only Nissan out of around 15 which died of mechanical failings was one where the gearbox went at 9 years old; the young lad who owned it crunched the box every time I was a passenger and in the end it started jumping out of second gear, so we just got shot (traded it in; TBH I wouldn't be surprised if it's still going with a replacement gearbox
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Of all the Japanese cars which have passed through my hands in the last 25 years, the only problems I can ever recall have been battery early death or trifling non-critical-to-locomotion faults. Admittedly the old Mazda 323 hack we got rid of in November did blow its head gasket, but that was at 300,000 odd km.
But then I haven't had any experience of British cars over the same period, so I have nothing to compare this with....;-0
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Looking at the news in Iraq,they seem to run a lot of Toyota and Nissan,i guess durability is going to be high on their list,especially as the main dealers appear to be thin on the ground.
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I saw 2 Hondas, 2 Vauxhalls, 1 Ford, 1 Toyota, 1 V.W. and 1 Nissan.
The one noticable thing about this is that out of 8 vehicles 4 of them were japanese. An awfull lot of the people on this site go on and on about Japanese reliability which frankly doesn't appear to exist.
Marcos, I think you need to beef up your survey with a "slightly" bigger sample!
Splodgeface
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Absolutely, Splodge.
Yesterday, I saw someone look under the bonnet of a Mercedes, so all German cars must be rubbish.
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I just wonder if there is a difference between Japanese cars when actually manufactured in Japan and those made elsewhere where the ethic on the floor may not be quite the same.
We had uniformly good experience with Japs over the years, mainly with Toyotas, my wife's being new and mine second hand.
I understand that in Oz where in the outback a failure could be fatal, Land Cruisers are the favoured wheels.
I certainly would not have taken on anything as complex as the Supra MKIV - unmodified! - but for a complete faith in Japanese machinery.
(I admit we now have KIA transport, but the mileage nowadays is small.)
Tomo
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I just wonder if there is a difference between Japanese cars when actually manufactured in Japan and those made elsewhere where the ethic on the floor may not be quite the same.
I seem to recall that the JD Power surveys did show a noticeable drop in reliability when Japanese cars were manufactured outside Japan. Exception is the Micra.
Production of the Toyota Yaris - favoured by many - has been transferred to France so I wonder if the quality will drop?
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If I remember I will keep a log over the next few months just to see what turns up along our roads.
No doubt my car will probably break down now!
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Leif,
I remember HJ recommending the Yaris some time ago when they where still being built in Japan with the rider buy before they are made in France.
Bill
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I was told by Toyota(GB) head office some 18 months ago that only the 1.0 models were to be assembled in France and the 1.3 models were to be from Japan. Don't know if that still holds true.
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Production of the Toyota Yaris - favoured by many - has been transferred to France so I wonder if the quality will drop?
It will now have four reverse gears!
;o)
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The trouble with using breakdowns as an indicator of reliability is you don't know the cause. Is it electrical or mechanical? Has the driver ignored the warning signs if any?
The differences these days aren't great - but still somehow we expect a 'Japanese' car to be reliable. My partner has a 1995 Nissan Primera 2.0, I have a 1995 Ford Scorpio 2.9 12V, nearly the same mileages.
Her car has run for two years now with nothing but routine servicing, doesn't use oil, engine bay clean as a whistle, pipes and wires neatly clipped.
In the same period the Ford has needed routine servicing, new transmission pipes (well known corrosion problem) and new brake discs - nothing I'd call serious. But the engine bay is claggy with oil from various places, there's wires and pipes all over the place, lights on the dash go on and off at will, the window switches on one door come off, and it just generally feels poorly put together.
But neither car has ever let us down. The Ford just feels unreliable....
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I am just changing a Honda Accord 2.0 SE which has done 40K miles in 3 years and has been 100% reliable - not even a blown bulb.
My brother has run a Nissan Almera 1.5S from new for 3 years over 30K miles and, again, perfection.
My parents have a Toyota Corolla 1.6 T2 which over the first year has been 100% reliable.
Previous company cars of mine, Peugot,Citroen,Ford have been troublesome and my privately owned Freelander a bleedin' disaster (see posts elsewhere).
I think your chances of a reliable car are much higher if it is Japanese.
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Marcos
even assuming you took a correct sample (which to all intents and purposes you didn't) you still could deduce anything from the results. The important thing is how many breakdown AGAINST how many running, for example if 4 out of 8 cars broken down on that day were Japanese, but 10 out of every 15 cars commuting on that piece of road were Japanese, then the Japanese cars are again more reliable (two times less likely to break down). Therefore you need to take into account how many broken versus how many running. I hazard a guess that if you do it properly you will realize Japanese cars are indeed actually more reliable, that is the percentage of Japanese cars broken down to those running, is less than the same percentage on other cars, defiantly English ones. (my dads rover has been in contact more with a mechanic than a driver or passenger).......
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I've got 42 Japanese cars in stock at the moment and 6 various Eurosheds(px cars)subject to a service(run thru the service bay)i would quite happily jump into any of the Japanese cars and drive off anywhere in the world with the full expectation of getting there.These are cars from 12 to 2 years old petrol and diesel, auto and manual.I would not have the same faith in the average Euroshed.This is a result of too many years experience.(also i would make sure the 4x4s had nice shiney bullbars!!!)
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Not heard much mention of Subaru in all this, yet the rural types near me swear by aged Legacys.
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About 2 years ago I travelled from N Kent to Chester by coach (Setra - superb). The entire trip was on MWays as as a diversion I counted cars in distress on the hard shoulder.
There were 12, all VW Golfs!
Make of that what you will.
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Another thought: how many cars on the hard shoulder are in distress? I had to stop the other day to rearrange my contact lens. To the best of my knowledge the lenses are not japanese in origin...and neither is the car. Add that to your survey, Marcos.
Splodgeface
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Do you think that in most auto surveys on reliability they actually ask what the problems are? I shouldn't think so. Some people complain about the slightest little problem and some put up with it. Someone with a German car will tend to complain about the slightest little problem as they don't expect any whereas someone with a Ford or a Toyota may well put up with it.
I was only making a comment on what I saw. I have never owned a Japanese car but one day I might but as I have covered over 200k in merc's in the past few years without problems other than 1 faulty air con relay I shall stay with a Merc for the time being.
I apologise if I have upset the Japanese car owning fraternity but again I was only saying what I saw.
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> Someone with a German car will tend to complain about the slightest little problem as they don't expect any whereas someone with a Ford or a Toyota may well put up with it.
As I have said in another thread, the reputation of Japanese cars (and German ones) is such that the slightest of faults will render some owners unhappy. I think your point is valid, but in the case of Jap cars it will work against them. It's cars like Citroens and Fiats where people will put up with small faults as these marques have a worse reputation, deserved or undeserved is irrelevant.
I buy Jap cars precisely because I consider them more reliable than other brands, German cars included. So I'd be very disappointed if my car died. On the other hand I accept it more readily if my Vauxhall Cavalier goes wrong.
Sure enough, the worst I've had to do to my Nissan in 2 years is to replace the pads, and the original 8yo battery. The Vauxhall has suffered electrical problems, starting issues, steering problems (complete new pump), knackered springs and some build-quality issues.
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I apologise if I have upset the Japanese car owning fraternity but again I was only saying what I saw.
As others have pointed out, one day is hardly representative, so it's more like trolling than anything else. If you were seeing that day in and day out then I'd agree that Japanese cars aren't as good as we are led to believe. However, like the chap who saw nothing but broken down Golfs, it is purely a one-off at the moment...
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There is another side to this of course...
There are no Daewoos in the survey. No Fiats. No Citroens. No Ladas and no Yugos.
Therefore all these marques must be great! lol
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I have never seen a broken down Roller.
I think if I did, I would slow down - if safe to do so - and encourage my passengers to point and laugh loudly at the Roller's occupants.
Schadenfreude is such fun for small minded people like me.
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In that case, Leif, I must have a mind the size of a pea! ;-)
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I was very sceptical about the claims and praise for Jap cars - but then I bought one (after years of expensive German cars) and am now a total convert. If you don't believe what people on this forum are saying, before you pay out, go and look at some Hondas and Toyotas. The build quality now is amazing - especially on the Toyotas.
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The point about japanese car design in general is that the quality is in the design not the assembly, so I don't care whether it is built in Derbyshire or Paris. The Japanese know how to do the simplest part well whether it is a door seal or a seat fabric, it may not be the last word in style but it will be durable and go together well so even the most unmotivated assembly worker would struggle to mess it up. It is durability which makes jap cars last so long and that durability is created by detail design right down at the most mundane level. VW,BMW,MERC they are all miles behind Toyota et al, the quality perception of these marques is just snob value, end of story.
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Expectation is everything; I bought my Accord purely on the basis of a flawless experience with past Hondas & Mazdas, as a stop-gap commuting car that was likely to give me no hassle whatsoever and little expense beyond routine maintenance.
It's never broken down, but the engine pinks and it now needs a new steering rack at just 36k miles. The thin lacquer on the paintwork makes it prone to scratching and chipping. Servicing is prestige-car expensive, fuel economy unimpressive.
These are mostly small issues, but collectively they add up to disappointment. The statistics suggest that my car is not representative of most Hondas, whereas a nightmare Golf or Laguna is somewhat more common.
The point is that no-one should claim Japanese makers build infallible cars; they just get it right more often than anyone else.
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The Japanese brands are always well represented in the more inhospitable parts of the world where durability and reliability are more than just a convience,often its more life or death.
That old line that Hondas are boring,unexciting and bought by geriatrics makes me laugh,sure they make some very ordinary Civics,etc,but they do know how to make some very exciting cars and bikes.
Might have been true a few years ago in the UK,but not really anymore.
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I bought a Honda bike and it's made in Spain - 15,000 miles, S reg and the paint is falling off the frame and engine. Nuts and bolts are rusting up, plastic is cracking. Not what you'd see on a 'made in Japan' bike I think.
My R reg Yamaha bike is at 50,000 miles and except for some stone chips at the front of the bellypan, looks and runs like new.
H reg Mazda car with 124k miles looks like new underneath. The only signs of rust I can see are on the cast iron block and diff housing.
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