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Water Companies need some competition - FoxyJukebox

I like to keep in touch with my household suppliers--and for better or worse acess to my energy provider, broadband and telecoms supplier is fairly easy on line and basically satisfactory. Howver-am concerned withr the relationship with my water company though. Have paid water "rates" for over 40 years now and have never(ever) in all that time had cause to contact them over any issue whatsoever( and i am sure there are many like me).

Recently we had an obligatory water meter installed( fine!) but after 3 months I thought it worthwhile taking my own reading to monitor consumption and see what effect it had on my monthly bill. Took reading, rang company and was put through to customer services who were amazed that I had taken the trouble to read my own meter and asked if i was moving house. After all that had been explained away-I then asked for a summary statement of monthly usage with a newly agreed monthly tariff. Water company response was a snooty " We only review and send bills once every 6 months-goodbye". This got me thinking--is there another supplier i can switch to ? -No there isn't! Why not?

My suggestion is that water companies have had it pretty easy for last few decades, need to shed this civil service attitude, do some customer training get some competition and put a business hat on.

Would love to hear some similar experiences -good or bad

Water Companies need some competition - RobJP

Water is cheap - sending people out to read your meter quarterly would not make economic sense. Doing it on an annual basis, and adjusting the payment annually, makes far more sense.

To ask for a summary statement of monthly usage would mean your meter being read - monthly.

Think about it - people garden, wash cars and the suchlike far more in summer than in winter. As such, average usage is higher in summer - this might not be the case for you, but it is generally true.

So to reduce your tariff now - on the basis of the last 3 months of winter use - would make no sense at all. You'd find yourself most likely facing a big jump in your monthly payments when your reading was next taken, because it would be looking at the (generally higher) summer use.

Water Companies need some competition - alan1302

This got me thinking--is there another supplier i can switch to ? -No there isn't! Why not?

Why would you want a choice? It would just end up like with the electric and gas companies - a bewildering aray of tarriifs and charges from loads of comapnies to try and sort through...and at the end of the day the electric and gas is all the same.

Competition in the water market would be another pointless exercise.

Water Companies need some competition - Vitesse6

There was something on the radio last week saying that you will be able to switch water suppliers soon. When pressed the person giving the interview admitted the potential savings could be around £8 per year. Would you bother for that amount? I know I wouldn't.

This also begs the question how much money it costs to change suppliers - there must be an admin cost incurred by the companies and this must ultimately be borne by the customers.

Water Companies need some competition - FP

"... at the end of the day the electric and gas is all the same."

If you mean it's all the same price, that is manifestly not true, and if you don't "sort through" the different tariffs you'll end up paying more than you should.

If competition in the water industry means smaller profits and savings passed to the consumer, I'm prepared to "sort through" the tariffs to get the cheapest deal.

Just to be clear: I'm not supporting the deliberate confusion sowed by the utility companies, as a result of which consumers who aren't savvy lose out. Same thing with mobiles and broadband. In an ideal world profits would be capped and consumers' interests protected.

Water Companies need some competition - concrete

RobJP makes a fair point. However there are ways to reduce the cost of your water. One is with a meter, provided you don't have a houseful of women and only a bath, no shower. The other is to think carefully about your usage, just as you should with gas, electricty etc. Education is neccessary, for instance all my children used to clean their teeth with the cold tap running: why? because it never crossed their mind it had to be paid for! When we got down to three of us at home we had a meter installed and our monthly bills went from over £40 to around £25 per month. I read the meter and sent in readings online and after the first year we had uasful pattern of consumption. That was with Morthumbrian Water then and they were fine to deal with. I now find Southern and South East Water less easy to deal with. Bear in mind also, if you use £10 worth of water they charge you £10 to take it away via the drainage system, that is how it works. It is worth going to a meter for most people and the savings are there to see, just takes some time to form a regular usage pattern. Incidentally in our previous large house we went from 2 bathrooms to three shower rooms, which saved us a fortune in water usage. Do the arithmetic and it will stand up for most.

Cheers Concrete

Water Companies need some competition - Bromptonaut

Competition in gas and electric works (in a practical as opposed to market sense) because we have national grid networks and a single consistent specification for both. There's no water transfer infrastructure and because water varies considerably in hardness, other mineral content etc etc suggestions of a cheap grid via rivers and canals would hve ecological consequences.

The water companies though have different tariffs such as watersure tinyurl.com/zqlep2r (link to citizens advice). Most also have some sort of social tariff for those on low incomes. The Consumer Council for Water has a full list:

www.ccwater.org.uk/savewaterandmoney/lower-bills-f.../

You can also get help saving water. Anglian for example have a scheme called 'bits & bobs' where they book an appointment for a technician to visit and give advice. He/she will also provide devices such as adapted tap nozzles, shower heads and changes to toilet flush mechanisms.

Water Companies need some competition - Engineer Andy

The joke of it all is that some water utility companies, such as Veolia (formerly Three Valleys [supply] and Anglian [sewerage - don't ask me why its different, I have no idea]) are getting rid of low usage tarrifs, such as the former Anglian Water 'SoLow' tarrif (its similar to the elec and gas companies - no standing charge, but a higher per cubic metre charge). My bill will, as a result, be rising by about 33%.

Hardly encouraging lower usage of water - all the 'schemes' are for are for low income families, but that do not encourage reductions in actual water usage - all they do is get the rest of us to subsidise them and those households (mainly those with many people living in them) still on rateable bills.

Many people are just downright lazy when it comes to use of water, electricity and gas, and show no sign of reducing their use unless they are forced to. I agree that its frankly pointless to introduce actual competition unless we had a nationwide network similar to electricity, which, as some have said, is nigh on impossible due to the cost and the vast differences in water hardness etc across the country.

In my view, the only way to reduce costs is to:

  1. Force everyone (business included) to have meters, make the standing charge as low as reasonably practicable, and charge a reasonable rate that is the same for each household in an area (dependent upon the cost of providing water and sewerage);
  2. Have larger enforcement teams and bigger fines for people & businesses who misuse water and sewerage services, such as using hoses/sprinklers in droughts or, in particular, flushing oils and fats in large quanitites and other items such as nappies and sanitary products down the loo/waste pipes which cause huge problems with blockages. Use public awareness campaigns, especially in schools, to help this and to reduce water wastage.
  3. Make sure (by law) the water companies commit to actual investment in drastically reducing leaks by methods other than reducing pressure and invest in quality infrastructure and equipment (and staff) to ensure the LONG term supply of water is assured at a reasonable cost to users. Heavily fine utility firms' holding companies and execs for mismanagement, and not allow them to increase prices/reduce investment to pay for it. They get a long term contract if they demonstrate good comporate responsibility, if not, they get turfed out with no compensation. They only run/maintain the services - they don't OWN them (the government would).
  4. Change the 20+ year out-of-date working practices of the firms on customer service (mine closed my account a few years ago because a new neighbour gave them the wrong address - no security measures to stop tampering with my account [and still not today]. I had to PAY my 'closing' bill 4 months early as a result), including the help lines and project/works management;
  5. Make sure that prices don't just go up to line the pockets of 'investors' and execs - it shouldn't be 'easy money' - utilities should be classed as a low risk, ok yield LONG term investment only. Ordinary people should be encouraged to buy into such firms so they can have a say how they are to be run, as they really are a social service dressed up as a private firm (even for me as a lifelong Tory voter). Communities that have a stake in such services often are more responsible in their usage of them.

I'm sure others can think of more things to keep prices down and quality/extent of service up.

Water Companies need some competition - focussed

When we were moving out of our UK house in east anglia, which we had let,and were moving to france, we requested that the water company read the meter (Anglia Water).

Four phone calls later, two weeks before we moved, they refused to read the meter, so we attempted to read the meter to get a reference point for the incoming tenant. The meter pit was full of water so we pumped it out to get down to read the meter. The meter dial face had water droplets on the inside so it was impossible to read.

We reported this to AW who said to just go on the estimated figures -Doh!

( We have a water meter here in France, as does everybody, the meter is read yearly-it has a natty little "windscreen wiper" on the inside of the dial glass which is operated by turning a little knob on the outside to wipe the inside of the glass so you can see the figures! - Anglian Water please note!)

Water Companies need some competition - alan1302

We have a water meter here in France, as does everybody, the meter is read yearly-it has a natty little "windscreen wiper" on the inside of the dial glass which is operated by turning a little knob on the outside to wipe the inside of the glass so you can see the figures! - Anglian Water please note!)

Here in Yorkshire (Yorkshire Water) they jsut read the meter wirelessly so never even need to open the flap in the street

Water Companies need some competition - galileo

We have a water meter here in France, as does everybody, the meter is read yearly-it has a natty little "windscreen wiper" on the inside of the dial glass which is operated by turning a little knob on the outside to wipe the inside of the glass so you can see the figures! - Anglian Water please note!)

Here in Yorkshire (Yorkshire Water) they jsut read the meter wirelessly so never even need to open the flap in the street

Further regarding Yorkshire Water, my daughter had requested a water meter to be fitted,for wireless reading: the engineer attended at the appointed time yesterday (phoned 15 minutes prior to say he was on his way) fitted the wireless sender to the existing meter and was away within 10 minutes, so good customer service.

Water Companies need some competition - daveyjp
My parents have a YW autoreader. They had some major building works done and a few weeks after the builders had finished they had a call from YW advising them the high water use readings suggested a leak.

Sure enough the new toilet flushing mechanism had a leak which couldn't be seen, but the alert saved them serious money.
Water Companies need some competition - FoxyJukebox

Intereresting responses--thanks. At the end of the day the thing that really bugs more than anything is the customer care attitude. I just cannot shed the sense that on the rare occasions I contact --they are always surprised that a customer actually wants to speak to them. I am absolutely positive there are resource/staff savings to be made.

Water Companies need some competition - Falkirk Bairn

Scotland - no domestic Water Meters - cost of installing, readings, billing etc etc would be high

Loads of water with little interest in water saving in homes - we pay water charges to council along with council tax.

Industrial users are metered.

Edited by Falkirk Bairn on 06/04/2017 at 13:04

Water Companies need some competition - Bromptonaut

The joke of it all is that some water utility companies, such as Veolia (formerly Three Valleys [supply] and Anglian [sewerage - don't ask me why its different, I have no idea]) are getting rid of low usage tarrifs, such as the former Anglian Water 'SoLow' tarrif (its similar to the elec and gas companies - no standing charge, but a higher per cubic metre charge). My bill will, as a result, be rising by about 33%.

Agree with your general prescription including compulsory meters but thought it wolud be a useful contribution to clarify some points.

Veolia has now become Affinity. Supply/sewerage splits like this are an accident of history following re-organisation of the industry in 1973. At that time pretty much all sewerage was dealt with by local water boards, largely around local government boundaries, most provided a supply too. On the supply side though there were pockets where private companies ran the service. When merging the local boards into regional (state) bodies the Conservative government wasn't prepared to 'nationalise' the private undertakings so they were left in situ.

There are also odd areas where legacy infrastructure means supply/waste are split betwen regional companies. In parts of North Lincs for example Anglian supply but Severn Trent take the waste. Similar splits occur with Anglian/Thames in East Oxfordshire and SW Bucks.

SoLow seems to be an anomaly. It was an attempt to get small/low usage households onto meters. But in fact that's exactly the cohort who benefit most from metering anyway. It's argued that in phasing it out, over several years, Anglian are actually removing a subsidy TO you rather than causing you to subsidise others.

The current reduced tariffs, Aquacare Plus, Watersure and LITE, all require the customer to be metered. L:ITE is subject to a tight means test.

Those moving to a meter have a two year switchback guarantee if they end up paying more than thr rateable value charge.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 07/04/2017 at 09:28

Water Companies need some competition - Engineer Andy

I agree that many of the 'reduced' tariffs use other users to subsidise them - I'm not arguing for that: SoLow has no means testing and is just there to encourage lower water usage, probably as you say via getting a meter, but reducing water usage by reasonable means (not wasting it) should be the default.

It was why I said the standing charge (which I don't currently pay - just a higher unit rate) should be lowered and the unit charge raised, for everyone, with a public campaign for reducing wastage in the home, and for the less well off, subsidised (or VAT-free) low water usage outlets/taps/appliances. The use of dishwashers, sprinklers, etc should also be discouraged (by extra taxes on their purchase - going to the aforementioned subsidy) as they use far more water than washing by hand and being more responsible in gardening. Similarly with industrial usage, and within the workplace, where most people waste huge amounts because the cost is so low compared to other operating costs.

Just by following the water firms advice and looking at how to save water in other ways, I managed to save (I was never a bad waster of water anyway, given my profession) 20% in water usage from when I first moved out. I currently use about 20-30m3 per annum, depending on whether I'm in or out of work [i.e. at home more]). As such, the standing charge would make up 25% of my bill when SoLow is withdrawn (the 33% rise in the bill).

The problem is that most people treat water as something thats abundent and cheap, but in reality it is a scarce resource, even with new measures by the water firms. It is likely become more so as the population rises and climate change means droughts and contamination of supplies & sewerage by floods (exacerbated by our behaviour as previously alludede to) are more severe.

Paying by rateable values of properties (including business) should be ended, as it (in my view) encourages wastage of water; similarly not cracking down on polluters (whether industrial/commercial/agricultural or home owners) hard to discourage irresponsible/stupid behaviour.

Water Companies need some competition - concrete

Water supply, it would seem is a post code lottery. Tales of woe from most areas except Northumbria and Scottish Water, where water is plentiful and hose pipe bans are unheard of. Most areas rely on reservoirs and aquafers to retain water for constant use, in Northumbria and Scotland there are large areas of natural lakes plus the Kielder project, it would seem the less total reliance on man made storage systems the fewer problems the water companies have, so customer service has a different priority. All in all though the price we pay for constant water supply is quite cheap. Just try to manage a few days without mains water to appreciate the benefits.

Cheers Concrete