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and the best way to get it regenerated?
Some have said, drive on the motorway for an hour at 60mph in 4th gear to get the revs up and it might burn off the soot thats accumulated.
Others have said they will charge £140 and put some liquid acidic thing in it to burn it off.
And yet others have said that it needs to be burnt off at high temperatures.
Any advise on which one to go for?
Edited by cs50 on 18/02/2017 at 12:46
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Some have said, drive on the motorway for an hour at 60mph in 4th gear to get the revs up and it might burn off the soot thats accumulated.
I'd stick something like Wynn's diesel particulate filter regenerator in the tank (follow instructions on the bottle) and then give it a go on the motorway like suggested.
While DPF's are often clogged up due to the wrong type of driving use, sometimes it is a fault in the sensors/ regen control that causes it.
If you do have to have a forced regen try an independant garage, they are bound to be alot cheaper than a Toyota dealer. Its not a difficult process, they just do it using a diagnostic tool and it takes around 15mins or so.
Edited by Wackyracer on 18/02/2017 at 12:53
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As the OP bought it less than six months ago, would the selling dealer be responsible as the fault would be assumed to exist at the time of the sale?
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This is really the reason why I wont be recommending motorline or any toyota authorised dealers to anyone anytime soon. I paid extra to buy from an authorised dealer as I thought going private you are more likely to get scammed. I am a young software engineer and this is really my first year driving - even when someone like me would be counting every extra penny that I am having to pay by purchasing at the authorised dealer, I still decided I wanted reliability and genuine honesty but am afraid thats not what I got.
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I'm probably tempting fate here but I've never had an issue with a DPF to date yet my usage is pretty similar to yours. Roughly 40 mile round commute 5 days and a few longer runs now and then but I never use supermarket fuel which lacks the same standard of additives as the likes of BP and Shell. I'm curious if you largely use cheap supermarket fuel or do you mostly use a better quality product?
I stopped using supermarket diesel a number of years back after a wee experiment on a Renault Kangoo 1.9 van I was running which had become noticeably slower to start and was becoming a little smoky on full throttle. I switched from Morrisons fuel to Shell and BP only and the difference was marked. Better on fuel, less smoke, better starting and a small improvement in performance, largely noticed because the thing was such a slug to start with.
I've never had trouble with an EGR valve or a DPF on any car I've run and wonder if my tendency to avoid this type of fuel is the reason and not just blind luck... Now waiting on DPF light appearing on the dashboard with dread.
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i do use supermarket fuel but I reckon the sample size is just not big enough here as I have only been driving this car since October and I dont know what the previous owner used. DPF clogs up after years of usage. At least that what I have been told.
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Again not exactly scientific but as a trader I often speak to other people who've had similar issues and I'm a frequent visitor to my local backstreet oil pit workshop and it's an answer I hear most often from owners who've had issues with sooted up DPF's and gummed up EGR's. The one thing they all share in common is a regular if not exclusive use of supermarket fuel. I certainly think there's a problem with the standard of the additive package they're using but then if the price is lower then standards usually have been cut somewhere. Of course you've no idea what the previous owner has run it on but switching can only help.
Edited by SLO76 on 18/02/2017 at 13:13
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I defo will start using BP, Shell fuel from now on on any diesel car I drive. Better to be safe than sorry. Really do appreciate the advice.
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We had 2 cars fitted with DPF's for a total of over 10 years. We used supermarket petrol 100% of the time except when we were away on holiday, no local Tesco.
Considering most fuel bought in the UK is bought from supermarkets if this fuel was an issue the roads would be littered with breakdowns. They are not so don't blame fuel that meets the releveant BS EN standards. Blame incorrect servicing or incorrect use.
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If I was the OP, I'd try Motorline again. In writing - making it very clear to them that you consider the fault to have been 'present or developing' at the time of sale, and thus, under the Consumer Rights Act, allowing them one opportunity to fix the fault (at their cost) before you go down the route of rejection. Also copy Toyota GB in on the communication.
It might just concentrate their minds a little bit.
Basically, if the fault occurs within 6 months of purchase it is assumed to be 'present or developing' at the time of sale, UNLESS the garage can prove it is down to the owner. After 6 months it is assumed to be down to the owner, UNLESS the owner can prove otherwise.
Your usage type is suitable for a DPF-equipped car.
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ok, i might do this then. Basically, the practices of motorline bromsgrove left much to be desired. I took the car in telling them that since I have only purchased it recently from motorline can you pls have a look at it as it should not be playing up so soon. It was implied that they will look at it without charging me any money since I had bought it from them recently. So I left with car with them. At no point was I told there will be a charge if I decided to take my car from their showroom without getting the DPF fixed by them. They tried getting £54 out of me and wouldn't give me the keys. My work colleague decided to go with me to argue this as well when we went back to get the car in the evening. And even then they said there will be a "note" on my account. So all-in-all it really left a bad taste in my mouth after spending so much money getting the car from them.
I will CC toyota in the discussion and see what happens. Not holding my breadth though as my previous emails to motorline haven't yielded anything at all. Everytime I email, they just call me back.
Edited by cs50 on 18/02/2017 at 13:43
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Do note that it is technically your responsibility to take it back to the garage you bought it from - your consumer rights are against them, not another garage, even if part of the same group.
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COULDNT EDIT so heres the full story
ok, i might do this then. Basically, the practices of motorline bromsgrove left much to be desired. I took the car in telling them that since I have only purchased it recently from motorline can you pls have a look at it as it should not be playing up so soon. It was implied that they will look at it without charging me any money since I had bought it from them recently. So I left with car with them. At no point was I told there will be a charge if I decided to take my car from their showroom without getting the DPF fixed by them. They tried getting £54 out of me and wouldn't give me the keys. My work colleague decided to go with me to argue this as well when we went back to get the car in the evening. After a lot of arguments we got the keys without paying anything but even then they said there will be a "note" on my account. So all-in-all it really left a bad taste in my mouth after spending so much money getting the car from them.
Whats worse, the rep was accusing me of putting the wrong oil in. I had told him on my own accord in the morning, that according to my manual, toyota recommends 0w30 oil for this yaris, but in case you dont have that, you can put in 5w30 until the next service where you replace with 0w30. I told him, I had put in 1 litre of 5w30 a month ago whilst waiting on the delivery of 0w30 since the oil level was kinda low and I thought maybe thats why I am getting the warning light so I ordered 5w30 by amazon prime now and got it within two hours.
On the phone when he initially quoted £101, he said mate even though you put the wrong oil in, its fine. If you go with us, we wont let toyota know and we will fix it all for you. I had actually said yes to them fixing the car at £101 since I was at work and didnt want any hassle. Only when they raised the price again to £310 that I decided to get a second opinion.
So
1. The oil is right and albeit not preferred, its will ok. I really shouldnt have said anything on my own accord even though I was trying to be honest and help them diagnose the issue.
2. If it was such a massive problem, why would they go behind toyota's back when they are authorised dealers.
My work colleague, was there and witnessed all this b******* and even took a number of their calls when I was busy at work.
I will CC toyota in the discussion and see what happens. Not holding my breadth though as my previous emails to motorline haven't yielded anything at all. Everytime I email, they just call me back.
Hopefully, it helps people avoid falling in the same traps I did.
Edited by cs50 on 18/02/2017 at 13:55
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Toyota have probably said no to the warranty claim as the issue isn't due to a manufacturing defect, rather wear & tear, or misuse on the part of an owner, past or present.
If you are considering action under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the contract is between yourself and the supplying dealership - not the manufacturer, and not another of the dealer group's sites.
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We had 2 cars fitted with DPF's for a total of over 10 years. We used supermarket petrol 100% of the time except when we were away on holiday, no local Tesco.
Considering most fuel bought in the UK is bought from supermarkets if this fuel was an issue the roads would be littered with breakdowns. They are not so don't blame fuel that meets the releveant BS EN standards. Blame incorrect servicing or incorrect use.
Same here Skidpan, my DPF equiped car is filled up at supermarkets 99% of the time. Not had any problems with the DPF in the 6 years I've had it.
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the rep was accusing me of putting the wrong oil in. I had told him on my own accord in the morning, that according to my manual, toyota recommends 0w30 oil for this yaris, but in case you dont have that, you can put in 5w30 until the next service where you replace with 0w30
There is far more to oil than viscocity.
DPF compatible oils are low SAPS, use the incorrect type of oil and you will eventually killl the DPF.
So did you use the correct DPF compatible oil? it will be specified in your handbook.
If not you are probably stuffed.
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like i said above. According to the manual, preferred is 0w30 but one can put in 5w30 if you dont have a 0w30. But the suggest if u do put 5w30 in change it to 0w30 at the next service. So yes, I went with the manual. Put 1litre 5w30 in, and now that I have my 0w30 with me, will put that in once the oil level is low again and depending on where this DPF regeneration leads me.
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imgur.com/a/7rmeD
right oil. I had also asked another independent garage and they too said the oil was fine and what motorline said about oil is cobwobbles
also, I had put this oil in AFTER the warning lights came on. So DPF issue was there already and prolly not caused by me putting in the RIGHT oil.
Edited by cs50 on 18/02/2017 at 14:11
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What does your manual specify.
There will be viscocity requirements but there will also be a specification for (probably) C1, C2 or C3 oil. This is very important.
What is the exact spec of the oil you used - have now bought? If it does not match Toyota's exact requirments you will probably wreck the car.
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this is the manual page for my oil. C2 it seems. - imgur.com/a/c53XQ
This is the one I purchased on amazon and put in - www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003BPSXNM/ref=oh_aui_...1
this is the 0w30 i bought and is still sealed.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281352639739?_trksid=p2060353.m...T
I dont expect you to weed through any manuals for me as I shall do that, but I have uploaded the manual here anyways if needed. www.docdroid.net/na1hfom/yarisf-we-52e26e.pdf.html
Edited by cs50 on 18/02/2017 at 14:24
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Amazon oil is mainly intended for Fords. Cannot see where it meets the required C2 spec so is unsuitable for your car.
ebay oil is C3 spec so again its not correct for your car.
Go to your local dealer, they sell the correct oil. Far cheaper than buying the wrong stuff and knackering your car.
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this is the manual page for my oil. C2 it seems. - imgur.com/a/c53XQ
This is the one I purchased on amazon and put in - www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003BPSXNM/ref=oh_aui_...1
This is the wrong oil spec - ACEA A5/B5.
this is the 0w30 i bought and is still sealed.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281352639739?_trksid=p2060353.m...T
This is ACEA C3. Unlikely to cause any damage, although Toyota specify a 0w30 ACEA C2 oil.
I dont expect you to weed through any manuals for me as I shall do that, but I have uploaded the manual here anyways if needed. www.docdroid.net/na1hfom/yarisf-we-52e26e.pdf.html
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Whilst I accept C3 oil may not cause damage if Toyota approved it they would say C2/C3.
Considering the correct oil costs the same as the wrong stuff why do people take stupid risks.
I suppose its because they are stupid.
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" Anyways, recently an orange spanner light popped up on the dashboard. This was followed by the engine management light. "
You only mention the spanner & engine management warning lights.
There is a specific warning light for the DPF filter having a problem showing an exhaust box.
Has this warning light ever been up while driving?
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regarding oil - yes, i have been stupid here. My first car and i didnt realise this. I will book a service in and get them to replace it and fill with the correct one as well.
regarding warining light - just googled dpf lights and never seen this light on my dashboard. So I reckon, I really should try Wynn's first and see if i get any issues cos it might not be dpf.
Edited by cs50 on 18/02/2017 at 15:29
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I wouldn't worry about getting it serviced until the faults have been fixed & it is almost due.
1litre of incorrect oil isn't going to kill your engine but repeated use will.
If the DPF wasn't regenerating you should get the DPF warning light up.
But there are lots of things controlling emissions on the engine that can cause the DPF to fail to regen.
You have the EML light up so there should be a fault code/s being stored.
Suggest you try to get the supplying dealer to fulfill there obligations to fix the fault/s.
If not take it to an Independant Toyota specialist or a diagnostic centre like a Bosch Diesel Specialist.
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Is this oil low ash dpf suitable? If isn't listed as low ash it could release ash into exhaust as oil is burnt. This can block dpf with non combustible ash. Your level was low right? So presumably some oil is being burnt.
Wrong oil/dpf fail may not have been a coincidence.
Also dud you got the level right. Excess oil will burn off and give excess soot that could fill dpf
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"Considering most fuel bought in the UK is bought from supermarkets if this fuel was an issue the roads would be littered with breakdowns. They are not so don't blame fuel that meets the releveant BS EN standards."
Half our discussions on here involve reliability issues on modern turbo diesels. Gummed up EGR valves and DPF problems are almost epidemic. Clearly correct servicing is bound to be a factor too. Like yourself I maintain my cars properly but lower standard fuel is possibly related too.
Edited by SLO76 on 18/02/2017 at 15:11
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If supermarkets had their own refineries where they churned out petrol and diesel to a low prce/spec I would probabaly agree with you but the fact is branded and supermarket fuels in the UK come out of the same tanks at the same depots, in somecases minute quantities of snake oil are added to allegedly make them better.
I town I have, on several occations, followed a plain white tanker that had just left the Shell garage and watched him go to Asda and fill their tanks. Based on that I am quite happy getting my Shell petrol from Asda.
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If supermarkets had their own refineries where they churned out petrol and diesel to a low prce/spec I would probabaly agree with you but the fact is branded and supermarket fuels in the UK come out of the same tanks at the same depots, in somecases minute quantities of snake oil are added to allegedly make them better.
I town I have, on several occations, followed a plain white tanker that had just left the Shell garage and watched him go to Asda and fill their tanks. Based on that I am quite happy getting my Shell petrol from Asda.
I've never witnessed the same tanker filling both a Shell station and any supermarket and I've had my eye on this for over a decade, even have both a Morrisons and a BP station within eyesight of my shop which I spent the guts of 80hrs a week in for more than 15 years and never once did the same tanker refill both. You're correct that the origional supplying refinery will often be the same but each firm adds their own additives which is what makes all the difference. Maybe they do this at the point of delivery in the cases you've spotted though I can't verify skidpan because none of the tankers ive eyeballed at our local supermarkets has made its way to any other stations.
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regarding warining light - just googled dpf lights and never seen this light on my dashboard.
I have yet to see a car with a specific DPF warning light. Normally its the engine light that flashes when the DPF has issues, your handbook will have the info that relates to you own car.
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My Passat has one although I have never seen it lit, despite numerous short journeys.
His is shown on page 568 of the manual he posted online.
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Well, first time for everything.
But how many owners will actually read the handbook and/or react to seeing it lit.
Answers on a postage stanp.
As we know warning lights are fitted to be ignored.
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regarding warining light - just googled dpf lights and never seen this light on my dashboard.
I have yet to see a car with a specific DPF warning light. Normally its the engine light that flashes when the DPF has issues, your handbook will have the info that relates to you own car.
They are all different, mine should flash the glowplug lamp if the DPF has been unable to regen. I say should because it's never happened.
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Yaris dpf life is around 60k miles even you drive at 100% Motorway speed and Shell Fuel. I had mine replaced under warranty after stating that my car was driven on the motorway on a daily basis. With the new DPF I noted that BP fuel is better than Shell. The regeneration cycle is around 550 miles with BP and 300 miles with Shell.
In summary the car is at 120k miles with the second DPF and still regenerate at 550 miles. My advice is use BP fuel.
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considering they sold me the car at 59k miles, I am defo going to contact them about DPF and either cleaning it under warranty or taking their car back as they should have mentioned at the time of sale that DPF is kaput and will cost me money in a couple of months.
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Lifespan of a DPF isn't 60k. They can give problems much earlier or last trouble free well into big six figure mileages. There are a lot of factors, from proper regular servicing using the correct oil, using good fuel (my opinion only) and most importantly usage that allows the DPF to go through regular full burn cycles. It's impossible to put a figure on its lifespan.
For the sake of keeping a customer happy the garage should arrange to have it cleaned for you. It's a job that should cost around £200-£250 retail and would cost them peanuts to do so I'd be very friendly but firm about what you expect them to do and if they don't you'll take it up with Citizens Advice and Trading Standards for advice. The thought of having a visit from a couple of TSO's is usually enough to gain some goodwill.
This is sadly another example why few of us on here will recommend a modern diesel, especially to someone buying on a budget. There's too many things that can and likely will go wrong even with a quality brand like Toyota. A 1.3 petrol would be a better bet in the long run but now that you have it I'd limit your exposure by running it on quality fuel. It's no miracle cure but it's certainly noticeable that I haven't had bother with any car I've had regarding DPF or EGR. Despite this though I intend on switching to petrol with both cars next time.
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Thank you so much for this stellar advise!
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The 1.3 petrol engine in the Yaris is excellentm the 1.0 petrol is good as well and very economical although not as powerful or refined (although happy to sit at 80 and hardly makes a noise).
I would consider trading for a petrol model, would suit you better in the long term.
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I had a diesel Yaris (not got rid of), was also 2nd hand, and had similar problems to yourself. There was recalls because of mine, DPF not regening properly and then disel getting into the oil which causes the oil to rise and then the spanner to come on.
In the 18 months (about 28k done in it) I had the car, the coils (plug symbol) came on once but the DPF was manaully regened by Toyota for free about 5 times.
I was told the car wasn't being driven properly, that it needs to go onto the motorway or it can't regen despite the fact i went on the motorway daily. I finally gave up on the car when they wanted to replace the engine in it with a modified part for the 3rd time because it wasn't being driven properly and hadn't had an opportunity to regen for 1000s of miles apparently. I told them I had been from Manchester to Oxford and back 8 days ago, and the weekend just gone I had jsut gone from Manchester to Hull and back, 100s of miles on the motorway. So if wasn't going to regen during those trips, it clearly wasn't working as intended.
Check all the technical bulletins work has been done (there was 2 technical bulletins with this isseuw hen i ahd the car).
I've swapped back to a petrol now and the car has yet to make an unxpected trip to be repaired.
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Hmmm. This has got me worried.
1. If I could I would change it, before I encounter a £3000 cost of replacing the DPF (cos even if Motorline clean it, it might need replacing in another year or two). Since I bought this in October 2016, how do I go about getting motorline to replace it with say another car (Petrol). Will they comply? Can I throw some EU/UK consumer rights at them?
2. "Check all the technical bulletins work has been done (there was 2 technical bulletins with this isseuw hen i ahd the car)."
Where can I get this info from? I did google but looking for a reliable source.
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Toyota EU. www.toyota-tech.eu/ Look under the Repair heading and see the list of TSB in date order for your vehuicle. VIN number helpful.
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Thanks.
Also, whilst sending them a snotty email, I will quote www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/
I am not looking for a refund, just a replacement toyota petrol model. So hopefully, they will comply.
Any further advise much appreciated.
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As regards the Consumer Rights Act 2015, if the dealer agrees to swap the car, they can make a deduction for the use you've had of the vehicle after the first 30 days - see the following extract from Which?:
"If you discover the fault within the first six months from purchase, it is presumed to have been theresince the time of purchase - unless the retailer can prove otherwise.
During this time it's up to the retailer to prove that the fault wasn't there at the point of purchase - it's not up to you to prove that it was.
If an attempt at repair or replacement has failed, you have the right to reject the goods for a full refund or price reduction - if you wish to keep the product.
No deduction can be made from a refund within the first six months following an unsuccessful repair or replacement.
The only exception to this rule is motor vehicles where a reasonable reduction may be made for the use you've already had of the vehicle after the first 30 days.
If you'd prefer to keep the goods in question you can request an approriate price reduction."
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I was polite as possible with the details of my car because I accept that it was more then likely one of the exceptions to what a lot of people find to be a reliable car that doesn't cause them issues. My car caused one of the technical bulletins. Which was one of the reasons I gave up with it.
I had to really fight to get it swapped though because of the length of time I had had the vehicle, despite the first problem being within a month of me having the car. To be fair I should have given it back then but I had faith that it would be put right and I actual quite liked driving it.
The car I had, which had continual issues spent 3 months of the 18 months I had it with Toyota and I in the end went through the financial ombudsmen to get it changed as not fit for purpose as the fault was there when I bought the car and the car was on finance. I did a deal which basically meant I returned the car and swapped to a new petrol, with no losses on my behalf.
The dealer (the actual dealer principal) said he was just going to auction the car once it was fixed again because he was as sick as seeing it as I was!
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