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Sun 24 Jul 2016 11:28

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - TheAuthor

I have £7,000 to spend on a car. But, just when I think I've decided on the make/model, I check on this (and other) site under the Good/Bad section for said car and there is always a list a mile long under 'Bad'. For example, VW Golf Mk6 is riddled with reliability issues such as oil/engine and DSG boxes breaking all the time. Same thing – red X's in abundance for pages – for BMW, Audi and other so-called top marques. I always thought you paid more for top marques because they were better cars, better components, better built and more reliable etc, but it would appear that (according to this site) that you pay a ton more money for a car that breaks down ALL the time and when it does it cost 10 times more to fix than say a Ford or Vauxhall.

Apparently, according to this site, ALL cars are totally and utterly unreliable, if you go by the Good/Bad section for any given car; there is always a ton of red X’s with a zillion complaints. I have yet to find any car on here that isn't riddles with reliability issues and call-backs. It seems too scary to buy ANY car if you go by the Good/Bad section on here.

I have even typed into Google ‘Most reliable cars’ and several sites always give their top 10 most reliable and least reliable cars and with consistency I read, surprisingly, of cars such as Peugeot, Seat and Korean cars being in the top 5 for the most reliable, along with Honda, Lexus of course, but this surprises me. What surprises me even more is that BMW, Audi and VW are always way down the list of most unreliable cars.

Could it be that most of these sites cut/paste details off the Warranty Direct or Warranty Wise sites so the source of these so-called best/worst cars are all coming from one place and that WD and WW use all sorts of algorithms such as ‘cost to repair’ (which is why Bentley comes up as most unreliable car according to their site)?

I am totally baffled by all this stuff I read online about what I always thought were the best cars in the world coming up at the bottom of the list of reliability and those cars that I always thought were rubbish (French, Korean for example) are coming up top. Am I just out of date and stuck in the 80’s? have things changed. A chap at a Honda dealer recently told me that French cars are way more reliable than German cars, is this true?

Your suggestions please on a 'reliable' car that won't break down every day and that won't cost a fortune to repair when it does. I fancied something a little nicer than usual: BMW, Audi, VW etc, really don't want to be stuck with a boring old Focus.

I’d decided on an Audi TT Mk2 2 litre petrol TFSI Auto, but then I read about the TFSI oil issues and broken timing chains and DSG gear box issues in abundance. Then I decided on a VW Golf 1.4 auto petrol TFSI, but read, on here, the same issues. Then I looked at a BMW 1 and 3 series, too many issues. Doesn’t matter what car I look at, they are all riddled with issues. I’m almost thinking of buying a Ford Capri 2.8 injection from 1979, with no sensors, electric or other stuff to go wrong, but they are all rusty ;)

I recently sold my BMW M5 as it always cost stupid money to fix when it went wrong, and it was getting on a bit anyway. I recently bought – as a temporary runaround while I find my ideal car – a cheap 14-year old Vauxhall Corsa automatic. I have 7K to spend on something nice, but all cars seem to be demons just wanting to break down and cost you a fortune to repair. Unfortunately, the internet gives us a means of researching these things.

Seriously, what should I do here?

Finally, no flaming please, this is a serious question. I'm not silly, I'm aware that there are thousands of parts, many of them moving, in a car and things ware out, go wrong and they need regular servicing and maintaining. But I just want to know, for sure, what the deal is with the Audi, VW, BMW type car and all these horror stories I read about them breaking down every five minutes.

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Sun 24 Jul 2016 12:18

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - gordonbennet

Thought provoking post.

Worlds best cars is an interesting idea, whats best, who says so, what is best about a car anyway, what defines quality?

This site is i believe one of the best for getting unbiased information from, HJ isn't afraid to go against the fashion nor trends of other publications, if he thinks something isn't everything its cracked up to be he will say so, that is not the norm at other sites nor motoring journalism in general.

The budget you mention is where the problems start for you, you are looking at newer (unless you want a proper Landcruiser 90's built) than the IMHO sweet spot of 90's designs built up to around 2005 at the latest, after which cars gained increasing electronics and had to cope with increasing emissions requirements, often self defeating too often poorly executed with the hapless out of warranty customer picking up the tab.

You can find cars in your budget that will be as good a bet as any, Subaru Forester/Legacy and Toyota Avensis spring to mind though Toyota saw fit to saddle Avensis with an electric parking brake for some unfathomable reason which can have issues...quite how Toyota are dealing with the early models now out of warranty having issues you'll have to read up on, EPB will never feature on a car i own so Avensis sadly ruled out for me.
What you could buy for £7k with a badge considered premium in Britain i'm not so sure, probably a Lexus IS250/GS300 would be as good a bet as anything.

Where the German makers (and some others) have let themselves down is that they have to some extent treated their customers with contempt, they have come up with some poor executions of designs which haven't proved themselves and basically once makers warranty if up (unless you are good at kicking a fuss up) are on your own.

If you are buying new and changing at 3 years or end of warranty, up to a point it doesn't matter if the thing falls to bits...cynically as the German makers stick with 3 years warranty whilst others have gone for 5/7 years does that mean 'quality' makers don't have faith in their own products, whilst the makers of what you once conceived was 'rubbish' seem quite content to put their money where their adverts are.

Its the buyers of out of warranty cars who find out if the car is quality or not.

Toyota get a lot or respect from most, not all, when they get things wrong they put their hands up and admit it, and extend warranties on the problems up to 7 years and 100k miles to cover things so the customer isn't out of pocket,
If the German makers took their lead it would go a long way.

Edited by gordonbennet on 24/07/2016 at 12:23

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Sun 24 Jul 2016 12:30

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - oldroverboy.

Ok, so we know your budget.
Please, expected mileage, do you live in a big city town, rural, do you want space, sporty, comfort, room for a family with or without dogs,
What is it for, commuting, leisure, long trips?

Petrol/diesel, auto/manual?

for £7000 ish you can find a kia rio 1.4 manual, ok to drive with 4-5 years kia warranty left.
Avant and others might suggest an Auris estate.

For £7000 you can have a dacia 0.9 tci brand new and have a 5 year warrany and low running costs.

But, Please be assured, you are not alone.

After many years in the trade i have only one rule personally.

petrol/manual/comfy and IN WARRANTY.

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Sun 24 Jul 2016 12:43

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - klu01dbt

Any car will break down eventually, even the most reliable car. Add in age, mileage and poor servicing and things get worse. Due to their premium and more complicated nature, parts then cost more.

Premium marques are also more likely to be complicated and high tech. This helps them retain their premium reputation but also makes them more likely to break down. New tech is often put on premium cars before it has properly matured.

So if you are looking at a posh "BMW, Audi, VW etc" with £7000, chances are you are going to get an overly complicated car, that may have seen a number of owners and had neglected servicing and is likely to have done high mileage. It is also likely to come from the time period when electronics in cars started to become really prevalent but had not yet matured into full reliability.

In other words you are looking in pretty much the worst possible sector for reliability in a car.

You would also want to save some of that £7000 for inevitable repairs meaning you have to buy a cheaper car, which is more likely to break down etc.

What you should do is up to you. Buy the car you want, but be aware you will likely spend a lot of money fixing it.

I personally in your position would either buy a cheap luxury shed with a long MOT and just keep it running until something expensive broke and then replace it, or more likely buy a fast depreciating high in range, mass market car a few years old.

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Sun 24 Jul 2016 13:12

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - TheAuthor

Thanks for responses, guys.

odroverboy, here is what I’m looking for.

Petrol, automatic. I mainly do b-road and town driving with a little motorway thrown into the mix. Think Cambridgeshire. I live 18 miles from Cambridge and drive windy b-road for most of it with about 5 miles on A road. Most of my journeys are like this, 20 miles or so with 70 per cent of that being windy b-road and a little A road 70mph thrown in. But, sometimes I take motorway journeys of about 100 miles or so.

I want a car that is economical as I’ve owned a BMW M5 and getting 25mpg combined is not fun. Having to go into the petrol station every 200 miles having just put £40 petrol in the tank sucks.

I like comfortable cars that are quite and refined, over sporty handling. I’m not a young boy racer (I’m 50) and like quiet cars, no wind noise, no tyre or engine noise. Basically, an S class, but without Merc expenses and fuel bills ;) I don’t mind if the car is a little smaller (though I’ve owned a few 7 series) but I would not want to go smaller than a Golf as I’m 6, 1 and need leg room.

Ideally, I’d like a combined mpg of at least 37 mpg, but I don’t really want to go for diesel as they clatter and are noisy and go wrong all the time and are expensive to put right when they do. Correct me if I’m wrong here. Also, I only do the national average of 12,000 miles per year so diesel would be pointless for such average annual milage.

I actually like the Focus (shape from 2012 to 2015) 1.6 petrol auto. But the thing that puts me off buying that car is the fact that Ford, unlike BMW, Audi, VW, tend to start to fall apart when they get to 10 years old, they are generally shagged with rattles, trim falling off etc. I like a well-built car.

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Sun 24 Jul 2016 15:56

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - artill

I doubt you will get 37mpg, but everything else you have put suggests a Lexus GS or IS. Seems a GS300 will be around 8 or 9 years old, an IS maybe a year younger. you would get a similar aged Prius for the money and far more MPG. There are similar aged Honda Accords at that price too. Many other japanese cars should fit the bill for reliability and shouldnt be falling apart

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Sun 24 Jul 2016 16:55

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - Avant

Reading your posts I was thinking 'Toyota hybrid', which I think best meets yoiur priorities of reliability, refinement and economy. There's the Prius or Auris (hatch or estate) depending on your practical needs.

Lexus is a good suggestion but for your £7,000 you'd have to settle for an older one. Worth thinking about if the Toyotas aren't luxurious or comfortable enough for you.

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Sun 24 Jul 2016 17:27

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - Steveieb

In my opinion, if you are looking for reliability you need to look beyond the brand and focus on the country of manufacture.

Even the most reliable Japanese brands suffered a dramatic drop in reliability when they started manufacturing overseas and using locally sourced parts.

That is why the first thing i look for on a Japanese car, which always top the reliability league is the marking on the window glass. If it says Secursiv or Pilkington I know the car has been manufactured in Europe so beware!

Lexus continues to be acclaimed the most reliable brand and as far as I know they are all manufactured in Japan.

Porche cars made in Finland have issues along with the rusty Dacias made in India.

The level of quality control of components manufactured in Japan is monitored closely by the car manufacturers representatives sent to keep an eye on things in the component manufacturers factory so defective components very rarely are delivered to the production lines.

Take look at the cars bought in Middle East countries where repair facilities are thin on the ground, and cars are abandoned for ever if they break down. Mostly Japanese built cars.

But things are changing fast as the idea of world cars takes hold. Honda will base world production of the Civic in the UK, CRV in Canada and Jazz in Japan. So choose carefully!

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Sun 24 Jul 2016 23:38

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - Project C

Lexus have a good reputation but if you want something affordable maybe try a kia ceed

The site should be taken in context. The bad is a list of all known issues

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Sun 24 Jul 2016 23:56

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - RobJP

The thing is, people who expect a lot from their cars are more likely to complain if they have problems. So people buying a Skoda Superb for £20k are less likely to complain than the buyers who've purchased a Audi A6 and spent £40k, even though underneath the cars are very similar.

Also, every single car is an experiment of one. I've had a few BMWs over the years, and only once had a problem - an EGR valve. Fixed by BMW the next day, and that was it.

The problems generally come when people skimp on servicing. That's far more of a concern than whether a particular gearbox type has had a few reported problems (think of how many DSG box'ed VAG cars there are, and the reported number of problems, and you'll see it's still a fraction of a fraction of 1% with problems, and the same with BMW timing chains)

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Mon 25 Jul 2016 09:23

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - sandy56

If people want to pay ~£7k for a car thats fine but you have to do some research and pick the right one. VAG cars are well known for great advertising and poor reliability I have bought one (AUDI) enjoyed it and moved it on Lovely car but bills were high.
There is a lot of other makes out there that will give great service. If you want the best most reliable car then Japanese cars are the way to go - no question. Personally I find them a bit boring.
Currently I drive a 6 year old Peugeot thats been great, minimal problems, looks good and is very comfortable. I will be keeping it a few more years.
Make a short list and do some test drives and then buy the car you like. They are all a gamble.

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Tue 9 Aug 2016 10:32

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - Brisman33

I would be looking at an approved used Kia. A year or two old it will come with a full service history and the balance of the long warranty remaining. The worst of the depreciation will be over but the car is still nearly new.

Run it until there is a year of guarantee left and sell it privately.

Alternatively a new mid range Dacia Sandero would be within budget, pay to extend the warranty and relax for the next five years.

Yes 7000 pounds will buy you nicer cars second hand but do you really want to replace the climate control on a Mercedes or the automatic gearbox on a BMW when it's out of warrenty ?

Luxury cars mean luxury bills, you could get lucky or you could end up spending more than the original purchase price in repairs. Then you are in a money trap where you keep facing ongoing bills but don't want to get rid of it because you've already spent so much on it.

I look for a manufacture who stands behind their product with a decent guarantee and repair costs which won't break the bank if things go wrong.

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Tue 9 Aug 2016 11:19

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - madf

£7k to spend?

If you buy a car with a list price of more than £25k, then you are looking at huge depreciation and sky high running costs if it breaks.

So start by buying something with a list price of £25k.

You mentioned an S class Mercedes. I take it you want to be poor.. sorry very poor.

If it's petrol you want,you will NOT average 37mpg unless you buy a small car.

Frankly your wants are contradictory..

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Tue 9 Aug 2016 12:19

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - barney100

No such thing as a bullet proof car so buying used is always a gamble. Must say the Volvos and Mercedes I've had have been pretty good. If you spent 6K on a car with a bit of warranty and a decent length MOT then you have a grand to play with. Never been stranded in a Volvo and with a good indie servicing is not too bad.

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Tue 9 Aug 2016 13:54

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - brum

No such thing as a bullet proof car....

Nonsense, www.topgear.com/car-news/list/six-more-bulletproof...y

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Tue 9 Aug 2016 19:15

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - DirtyDieselDogg

Allow me to contribute a happnyworth of probably not particularly pertinent comments.

I started driving in about 1980, bought second hand cars and self maintained.

Worked my way up to our first new car in 1998, now on our second new car.

Doing 25,000 a year for a good few years, when holidaying in the car to the Continent at least once a year(N.B. without ever purchasing ANY "get you home insurance), annual milage now down to about 15k/yr

I have NEVER had a car fail me unexpectedly, i.e. break down along the road.

Because I pull the dipstick, check the coolant and pay heed to tyre presurres, on a daily basis on continental outings, less often nearer home.

Simples.

Yet I Tuesday past when stopped for fuel at I observed a young woman in a fresh looking Polo, snap the seal on the 3rd litre bottle of oil and empty it into the engine, before restarting the car and driving off.

Now theres a cracking one lady owner, low milage, 2nd hand car bargain in the making, come trade-in and resale.

I.E. Most drivers are stupid, or at least mechanically uncaring and then blame the vehicle, for its eventual, and probably well fore-warned failure.

Aware of more recent electronic gremlims and indeed even battery technology, that results in an instanteanous "fail".

marcus

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Wed 10 Aug 2016 14:45

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - Ethan Edwards

Whilst I agree with your basic premise. Never say never. I had a new fanbelt break on me in the middle of Brussels once. Fortunately I had a spare on me and tools but it happens. 1980 it was and it was a 18mo Princess 2ltr HL Auto. Lovely big roomy cruiser. Came to a stop near lovely Pizzeria in the burbs. Fix car have lunch proceed on way. Good times.

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Wed 10 Aug 2016 15:46

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - brum

Yet I Tuesday past when stopped for fuel at I observed a young woman in a fresh looking Polo, snap the seal on the 3rd litre bottle of oil and empty it into the engine, before restarting the car and driving off.

Now theres a cracking one lady owner, low milage, 2nd hand car bargain in the making, come trade-in and resale.

I.E. Most drivers are stupid, or at least mechanically uncaring and then blame the vehicle, for its eventual, and probably well fore-warned failure.

Dear Sir,

A gentleman would have leapt out and pointed out to the lady that 3 litres of oil on a garage forecourt is not right. Who knows, you might have even got a peck on that dirtydieseldoggs cheek!

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Wed 10 Aug 2016 17:08

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - DirtyDieselDogg

Sniff!

(i) I am 57

(ii) Nivver wuz ony guid at yon "Gentleman thang", though I was a proper Gentleman, and , quite properly, took the weight on my elbows when proposing!

(iii) Said lady I proposed too, is still with me some 35 years later.

(iv) Very same lady wuz also with me on the forecourt.

(v) Onyway, a wee gype o an attendant was keeping Polo woman right already, probably indicating which orifice the oil should be poured inta like!

cheers

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Tue 9 Aug 2016 19:22

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - Metropolis.

The most obvious answer to your question is a Lexus. Initially i thought LS but they wont be any more economical than your BMW was. Best option for a refined, comfortable, reliable and economical luxury car is the Lexus GS450h. Yes, it's a hybrid, depends if you can live with that. On the plus side it does get a claimed 38mpg average. These are all good options for example http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201607246146232?search-target=usedcars&make=lexus&model=gs_450h&price-from=6500&price-to=7500&page=1&sort=mileage&searchcontext=default&postcode=gl501hx&radius=1500&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&logcode=p&adPos=2

Wildcard option: go for a Volvo s80 like this : http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201607256163534?search-target=usedcars&make=volvo&model=s80&price-from=6500&price-to=7500&sort=mileage&radius=1500&searchcontext=default&postcode=gl501hx&page=1&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&logcode=p&adPos=1 Simlar age to the lexus and a comfortable cruiser. 2.4 Diesel engine has been around for a LONG time and gets a claimed 38 mpg as well. Any faults will be well documented now. Safer bet would be the Lexus, maybe my view of volvos as reliable is outdated, but every car will have horror stories on forums! (minus lexus).

Good luck

Edited by PCharlton on 09/08/2016 at 19:23

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Thu 11 Aug 2016 10:00

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - Bracket

'All cars are unreliable' is a bit of a generalisation. There are plenty of Fords, Dacias, Volvos and Vauxhalls with +150,000 miles on them.

Talking to an RAC man who came out to fit a new battery on our 145,000 mile 2002 Ford diesel the other day, he didn't bat an eyelid at the mileage, and said he'd just come from a Toyota Avensis petrol, with 350,000 miles on the odo. Engine fine, call-out was for a new battery also.

'I only do the national average of 12,000 miles per year so diesel would be pointless for such average annual milage.'

I do 8000-9000 miles a year and bought a new zero-VED diesel. Saves £25 per month VED, and does 62 mpg. Knocked my fuel bills down to £50 a month from over £110. Total monthly saving of £75+ is very noticable.

You could buy a used Prius. They're supposed to be reliable. Or anything without a clutch, or a battery, but with a two year warranty. :-)

Edited by Bracket on 11/08/2016 at 10:02

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Thu 11 Aug 2016 13:27

All makes and models - All cars are unreliable according to this site - RT

Cars are like anything technical - many do mega-miles with nothing other than routine replacements while other of the same brand/model/specification have big issues.

Reliability statistics only show how many of each model gets problems - they don't show the probability that any one example will get problems - that's why some owners of troublesome models can report no issues.

As individuals, we cannot assess reliability - only by aggregating everyone's experience can a picture be built up.

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