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Thanks slkfanboy.
I have read that that sometimes gear selected is not what driver would choose, e.g leaving roundabout gear chosen on fuel efficiency rather than acceleration.
Beginning to think unless really needed better sticking to manual.
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the 6-speed DCT (DSG is the VW name) will use less fuel - but I would still prefer the older TC box. I prefer TC type automatics in heavy traffic - especially slow moving traffic, and also for manouvering. If you plan to keep the car longer than 3 years I would also prefer the TC box. For me, it's a choice between a TC auto or a manual.
The TC makes up for it only having 4 gears. Some companies are already dumping DCTs and going back to TC.
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I sympathise with scott22, the OP.
When you want to specify an auto box with this or that car it immediately clouds the affair. It sticks an extra £1000 or £2000 on the price of a new one, it (usually) ups the emissions and (in practice) rarely aids the mpg ....even if the manufacturer says it will.
I have both types...Torque converter and DSG.
To say a four speed TC box is "useless" is hardly helpful. It serves a purpose, it's smooth as silk and it's likely to be more reliable and less troublesome than the twin clutch jobbies. It saps power and it costs more all round (to buy and run) but if that is all that is offered in the car you want then you pays your money and takes your choice. We've had ours for five years and it's not useless. It's not ideal, but it's not useless.
The DSG gets stick, abuse and disdain...here and elsewhere. We've also had our DSG equipped car for five years and, strangely enough, apocolypse has yet to happen. We both absolutely love both the car and the DSG.
Others can pass judgement from behind the keypad ....we've got both types and speak as we find. From first hand experience.
If buying again I'd be happy to go for a Kia twin clutch transmission, providing everything else associated with the purchase proved satisfactory and to our preferences...but this might have something to do with the 7 year warranty...I know I would be unlucky to get stuffed by Kia for that period...it could happen but I wouldn't know until I'd had it for seven years and could speak from experience. I would have it serviced by the main dealer and try to achieve goodwill should the need arise. If it all went wrong I'd know for next time.
I would also have another DSG but I do think it's regrettable that VAG restrict the warranty to three years. Certainly I would extend the warranty to five years at the point of sale...if only for my own peace of mind.
Finally I would (probably) have another Toyota with CVT...alll other things being equal. I trust Toyota and would expect an uneventful five years. I'd try one before signing the deal but would go in with optimism. (I've owned half a dozen Yaris's of all variants ).
Horses for courses I suppose.
Good luck to the OP
Edited by KB. on 19/07/2016 at 14:37
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Thanks KB, whilst I appreciate everyone who takes the time to reply ( providing its polite and intended to be helpful ) Posts like the one you have made are what makes forums worthwhile. Someone who can compare systems from actual use and make informative comment without being dogmatic is invaluable.
Much appreciated.
Edited by scot22 on 19/07/2016 at 18:37
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The Venga is my kind of car, Scot, so I immediately spotted your question. The Venga is not around in large numbers, the DSG auto gearbox has only been fitted for quite a short time and the car is not widely bought by people who do big mileages. Those 3 factors suggest to me that you're unlikely to get a definitive answer. I took a quick look, however, at a couple of Venga forums and found little mention of the DSG box, except for one driver who found that it could cause hesitation in certain circumstances.
If, as you say, MPG is "not a big issue" it won't be a big deal to play safe and opt for the TC box. On the other hand, high fuel consumption was a noticeable feature on the forums. Tricky decision.
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Thanks John, always so much to think about.
I know things are personal but do you find the car comfortable ? that is very important.
Is it relatively easy to park ? ( I need to practice more )
Is the acceleration 30 -50, 50 - 70 good ?
How do you like the manual gearbox ? auto not essential.
I have test driven some cars over the year, e.g Honda Jazz, Volvo S40, Toyota Auris and A class W169. The one that meets most requirements is the A Class but I wonder if Kia Venga might be as good (better ?) but less expensive for maintenance.
Car buying is something where now I've found out more I've become more careful ( which can be overdone ! )
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I see a few (probably because I've got one) Venga models as well as the ix20 around NEessex. Mostly older drivers like me (just 65 last month), when parked note combination of autos/diesels/petrols.
Our local Kia dealer Underwoods seem to have there heads screwed on and the Service manager Nick White is always willing to have a chat/deal with faults himself.
They themselves acknowledge an average of 35mpg for the 1.4 petrol, which overall i am doing slightly better.
I find it very comfortable 6' 2" 97 kilos swmbo likes it too!
Parking a doddle with the reversing sensors.
It will move if you use the loud pedal and gears, but entirely satisfactory for me.
Allegedly the 1.6 petrol auto is dire on fuel.
I like the gearchange action.
Best colour metallic red.
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Hi Scot, the phrase "my kind of car" means that it's a smallish MPV. I haven't actually got a Venga, although I looked at Hyundai's equivalent, the iX20, when I last bought a car. I ruled it out, however, because of the fuel consumption.
I ended up getting a Vauxhall Agila B (Suzuki Splash) which I'm happy with, except for one thing. I've always been really good at reversing, even with a trailer on the back, but I find it very difficult with this car. I can get it into a small space easily, but not square in a bay or parallel to a kerb. I've come to the conclusion that it's because the body side is curved, so there's no straight line to use as a reference point. That's something you could probably check out simply by sitting in a Venga.
Have you tried asking your question on a Kia forum? Be warned, though, there seemed to me to be quite a lot of members who are not aware that the type of auto gearbox has been changed. Of course, that might mean that the DSG box is as smooth in operation as a TC.
Edited by John Boy on 20/07/2016 at 16:53
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Thanks ORB that's a very helpful post. Thanks again John. Although I have gone on various car forums I often find answers are very much affected by a loyalty filter ! In my experience posts on HJ are generally very worthwhile.
I've often had many responses on here than the specific forum which can be lacklustre.
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Just a note to correct the use of the term DSG when speaking of the (newish) Kia twin clutch system.Kia call their version of the twin clutch transmission DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission). Similar idea to DSG but different name. Remember also that Audi have much the same system as DSG but they call it S tronic.
Just to make it a little more confusing the term Dual Clutch Transmission could be construed as a generic term... see here...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission In that article it explains the principles of twin clutch transmissions and uses the DCT term to cover other manufacturers.
VAG started to use the DSG around 2003. That's quite long time ago. You would have hoped they'd have perfected them. But I admit VAG (and Ford with their Powershift twin clutch boxes) were still having problems during the first three years of my ownership and VAG did a couple of recall mods on it. Plenty of coverage on all of that just about everywhere. Other upmarket manufacturers still use them...Porshe included. But I will further admit that my crystal ball is in for a service therefore I can't foresee where we'll be in ten years time. But I say again, if you like the Venga and you want an auto then don't be afraid of the DCT...it'll be supported for the next seven years and that's far enough in the future for most of us. Likewise the DSG bought with two years VAG warranty will give five years of motoring without unexpected expense. Just make sure you drive a DCT equipped car to get the feel of it. (I think a Ceed would be the most available model)
In my experience Skoda took my car in for the DSG fixes and gave me a loaner and didn't cause me any incovenience...so no suggestion of being without a car for long periods. My local Skoda dealer collects and delivers so even less inconvenience.
Conversely if you choose a particular car and it happens to come with a torque converter box - then go for it and accept the extra expense described earlier, provided you're happy with it.
Can't add a lot more without even more repetition.
Good luck.
Edited by KB. on 20/07/2016 at 20:49
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Transmission names are all designed to separate and confuse - Aisin boxes are used by most brands around the world, but all call it something different, eg Volvo Geartronic
Trademarked names like DSG and Tiptronic are widely used unofficially on boxes that operate similarly - Tiptronic is a Porsche trademarked name but VW Group brands have permission to use it.
For Scot22 - once you've had a car with a long warranty, it does give that secure feeling - despite a stack of issues with my Hyundai, they were all dealt with under their 5-year warranty and I still recommend Hyundai/Kia to Friends & Family.
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This thread further confirms the high regard I have for the forum. The willingness to share knowledge and experience is marvellous and I am sure, by most people, much appreciated.
I am confident that my car buying awareness is considerably better than it was.
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Let us know what you do buy..
and if you do go for a Kia, use autotrader for a less than 1 year old (you'll save a packet) and as long as it has not had a service buy the servicing pack from a kia dealer.
if you do don't forget to negotiate a full size spare wheel
Best wishes
orb
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Quite agree with your comments regarding your DSG car.
I've had a Peugeot Partner Tepee with the ETG6 automated transmission. Before purchasing, i googled it and the general concensus was that it's to be avoided, slow, jerky, hesitant etc, but the dealership let me test drive a different model with that gearbox and it was fine. Bought the car and 2 years later, not a single issue, it's only jerky when changing gear if you have your foot welded to the floor, same as it would if you kept your foot down when changing gear in a manual.
Rule of thumb: Try it before you buy it and don't take what you read online as gospel.
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Additional good advice appreciated. I will say what I eventually buy.
I am in the fortunate position of wanting to change but not having to change - have already paid for expensive items in C30. Unfortunately, having experienced its seats and cabin I am looking for something equivalent in comfort - I accept different in how it is achieved.
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