Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - Dave Leicester

Hi John, My Volvo XC60 has just had it,s second year service with only 9,400 miles on the clock. I have a 5 year pre-paid service plan; so was surprised to receive a phone call to say the brake fluid needed changing at a cost of £90.00 and did I wish to proceed. I reluctantly agreed to the work due to the safety implications, but was called back a few minutes later to say that the car was already on the road and was being delivered back to me. I agreed to phone them back to fix a convenient date for the work to be done. It gave me a chance to check the termsw and conditions of my service plan and also what was written in the, Maintenance and Service section of the Owners Manual (page 360) The second paragraph clearly states - 'change the brake fluid every other year or at every other regular service.' In my opinion this work should have been automatically carried out at this service and again in the future fourth service, without the need for any fluid tests. I contacted the garage again and sent them a copy of the relevant page from the owners manual.Having consulted with the main dealership manager, I was contacted back and told that they would carry out the work 'free of charge.' I did not labour the point, but I am of the opinion that I have already paid for two brake fluid changes and I hoped that I would not have the same situation in two years time when the second change is due. The employee could not give me that assurance. Do you think I am right and is dealership pulling a fast one on all Volvo owners when asked to pay for this work, every other service and are they exposing themselves to possible serious litigation if they fail to do the work as specified and this results in a serious incident? Having bought this to the dealership,s attention, I would hope that they check their maintenance schedules and make sure that this work is included - after all, they will not be out of pocket as the cost will be added to any service quotations; that is, if it is not already includes and this is just another garage scam. Perhaps I am being cynical?

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - daveyjp

Service regimes are generally made up of two elements.

1 - Items which have to be done - generally not much more than oil change for a minor, cabin filter, air filter for major and a few checks on other systems.

2 - Items which are recommended to be done - brake fluid changes, coolant change, fuel filter, cambelts etc.

Service plan quite often only cover those items unger 1) above. Anyting recommended has to be paid for.

However like all such agreements the devil is in the detail - what does your service plan actually say it covers and more importantly exclude?

From their website:

What is covered?
All elements of Volvo scheduled servicing are covered by the Volvo Service Plan you have chosen to purchase – this includes the cost of materials, cost of labour and VAT (the VAT rate applicable at time of plan purchase will apply).

What is not covered?
Anything not included within the official Volvo scheduled servicing for your vehicle, for example, any extra maintenance work or adjustments.

You therefore need to know what work is included in "scheduled servicing" and if it includes brake fluid changes. Details should be in vehicle documentation.

This is done at every service:

  • Change engine oil
  • Change oil filter
  • Change cabin air filter
  • Software update
  • Read-out fault codes
  • Top up washer fluid
  • External car wash
  • Check seat belts
  • Check battery
  • Check wiper blades
  • Check tyre pressure
  • Check tyre condition
  • Check coolant system and anti freeze degree
  • Check for engine oil leaks
  • Check for transmission oil leaks
  • Check steering & front suspension
  • Check driveshaft joints & gaiters
  • Check propshaft joints
  • Check condition of brake/fuel lines & hoses
  • Check brake pads & discs
  • Check handbrake cables & linkages
  • Check brake hydraulic system
  • Check and top up engine compartment fluids
  • Reset service reminder indication

In addition, the following actions are performed at specified service intervals:

  • Change spark plugs
  • Change air filter
  • Change auxiliary drive belt & apply decal
  • Change fuel filter
  • Change timing belt & apply decal
  • Check rear endsprings
  • Check sealant kit

No mention of any brake fluid changes.

Edited by daveyjp on 03/03/2016 at 12:35

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - Cyd

personally, I think you were "having your leg lifted". However, as Dave points out, the devil is in the detail

Check very carefully: 1. the items specified at regular intervals in the service requirements and 2. what is explicitly included or excluded from your service plan and compare the two. if you believe that the brake fluid is clearly specified to be changed bi-annually (quite likely) and that it is included in the service plan (could be either way), then put a complaint in to the Dealer Principal using a traceable method (email is good). Make sure you get a satisfactory (recorded) response. Unfortunately you don't have any evidence as the conversation was by phone and not recorded by any means (so your word against theirs), but if it was a "scam" then that is fraud and is a Police matter. A complaint to Volvo UK customer services might be in order. Next time you put your vehicle in for service, make sure they have a mobile to call you on (ask them to delete any land line numbers from their records). Download a call recorder (I use ACR on Android) and activate it when you are expecting a call (otherwise de-activate it or it'll fill your phones memory). Oh, and make sure you get it done. If it is a required service item then failing to have it done may invalidate your warranty.

Edited by Cyd on 03/03/2016 at 13:11

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - Cyd

I did my reply at the same time as dave

Why does the Hj site 'screw over' the text formatting when you use another program to do the typing??

Check your vehicle documantation carefully, the website list seems not to include brake fluid in the 'scheduled servicing'

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - craig-pd130

Brake fluid changes are very rarely covered by service schedules, so you've got a good deal by getting the Volvo dealer to do it free gratis.

The worst that happens with NOT changing brake fluid is that it could absorb enough moisture so that it might boil under extreme braking conditions (for example descending a very long Alpine pass while towing a caravan).

In practice, this is unlikely to happen as brake systems are largely sealed, and modern brake fluids have better additives that mean they absorb less water than they used to, and are less prone to causing corrosion in ABS units, etc.

It would take at least 4 years for this to happen from new, in my view, unless you're in the habit of leaving the cap off the brake fluid reservoir.

A fluid change is worthwhile on a used car when you're not sure if it's ever been done; I do believe every 2 years is excessive.

Edited by craig-pd130 on 03/03/2016 at 15:19

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - John F

......brake systems are largely sealed, and modern brake fluids have better additives that mean they absorb less water than they used to, and are less prone to causing corrosion in ABS units, etc.

......I do believe every 2 years is excessive.

Absolutely. I actually think every 5 yrs is a bit ott. Yet another example of dogma which might have had some value about 50yrs ago.

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - Falkirk Bairn

Surely the brake fluid should be tested at every service - IF there is water then it shoulod be changed - failing that it should be left until the next service.

Brake fluid test meters have been around for 20+ years so even the smallest corner garage will have one - A Volvo Franchise MUST have one.

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - Cyd

I don't really understand why this has become a debate on th emerits of fluid change intervals.

For the OP it's VERY SIMPLE:
if the service schedule requires a fluid change at 2 years, then he should have it done. Failure to do so could invalidate the terms of the vehicle warranty (and any possible future aftermarket warranty).
So the OP needs to check this requirement in the service schedule

SIMPLES!

Then the only open question is whether the fluid change is included in the service pack or not.

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - barney100

You can check the fluid's condition, my indie does it and tells me the state of it. if it's ok they don't change it...simples.

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - dimdip

You can check the fluid's condition, my indie does it and tells me the state of it. if it's ok they don't change it...simples.

Is it not the case that more water can be absorbed at the wheel-ends of the brake system (potentially leading to corrosion) and so a dip reading taken at the reservoir does not detect this?

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - bathtub tom

There's usually a vent on the master cylinder. As the temperature rises and falls under bonnet, so air will be drawn in and expelled. Air contains water vapour.

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - John F

There's usually a vent on the master cylinder. As the temperature rises and falls under bonnet, so air will be drawn in and expelled. Air contains water vapour.

Oh dear. The vent on the master cylinder is for brake fluid, not air!!

The modern design of the fluid reservoir and its cap allows for any thermal expansion/contraction, most of which is accommodated by a rubber diaphragm, so that the tiny cap vent hardly ever admits air.

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - bathtub tom
The modern design of the fluid reservoir and its cap allows for any thermal expansion/contraction, most of which is accommodated by a rubber diaphragm, so that the tiny cap vent hardly ever admits air.

I've heard of these (mythical?) fluid reservoirs, but have yet to see one. My '14 reg Yaris isn't equipped with such.

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - John F
The modern design of the fluid reservoir and its cap allows for any thermal expansion/contraction, most of which is accommodated by a rubber diaphragm, so that the tiny cap vent hardly ever admits air.

I've heard of these (mythical?) fluid reservoirs, but have yet to see one. My '14 reg Yaris isn't equipped with such.

Interesting. Has someone pinched it? Is this it....?

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2014-YARIS-1-5-HYBRID-BRAKE-FLU...e

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - John F

Is it not the case that more water can be absorbed at the wheel-ends of the brake system (potentially leading to corrosion) and so a dip reading taken at the reservoir does not detect this?

As long as the brake fluid is not silicone(DoT 5) any water absorption will be dispersed through all of it. However, modern brake systems are so well sealed that water cannot get in.

Even if my DoT4 fluid was so wet that its boiling point was halved I doubt if I would ever have a problem as it would take many high speed rapid slowdowns to transmit enough heat via the minimal contact of the piston on the back of one of the pads to make the fluid boil. As a previous poster has said, unless you are descending an Alp with a caravan there is no need to worry unduly.

Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - slkfanboy

>Surely the brake fluid should be tested at every service - IF there is water then it shoulod >be changed - failing that it should be left until the next service.

For the small cost of changing it no worth testing. It should really be a 30min job to simply push though some new fluid. I have aways found doing this has reduced the travel of the brakes pedal and worthwhile. 2yrs is based on logic of about 30 years ago, but worthwhile.


Volvo XC60(2015) - Another service scam? - brum

As long as the brake fluid is not silicone(DoT 5) any water absorption will be dispersed through all of it. However, modern brake systems are so well sealed that water cannot get in.

Even if my DoT4 fluid was so wet that its boiling point was halved I doubt if I would ever have a problem as it would take many high speed rapid slowdowns to transmit enough heat via the minimal contact of the piston on the back of one of the pads to make the fluid boil. As a previous poster has said, unless you are descending an Alp with a caravan there is no need to worry unduly.

My experience showed that when I bled at the calipers on a car that hadnt had its fluid touched for about 12 years then an alarming amount of crud, corrosion and dirty fluid came out, but only to the volume of the caliper piston, after which it appeared to flow clean. I am happy to leave brake fluid for up to 5 years but at least have it tested after that. A part bleed to check fluid at the calipers might be sensible for a diyer like myself. On the rare occasion I change the brake pads, I do make sure to unscrew the bleed valve BEFORE pushing back the pads/pistons. That crud going back into the abs block is going to cause trouble.