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telephone boiler sales spiel - scot22

The other day I listened to one of the cold calling messages about central heating boilers I usually delete automatically on the first sentence.

He said that from the end of 2016 all homes MUST have an A rated boiler. I do not believe this to be the case, but wondered if there is anything that could possibly be distorted to justify the claim.

telephone boiler sales spiel - alan1302

Number one ruleof telephone marketing is not to belive anything that they tell you.

No basis to that at all-and if you were buying a new boiler I doubt you could find a new one that isn't A rated now.

telephone boiler sales spiel - Energyman
No truth at all but there is a big push coming from the energy companies, some funding available if on benefits, tax credits etc.
If you live in a 50's 60's chalet there is now funding to insulate them properly.
Bit off message for this forum ..sorry
telephone boiler sales spiel - bathtub tom

from the end of 2016 all homes MUST have an A rated boiler.

Suspect that from the end of 2016 all replacement boilers must be A rated, except in certain circumstances.

Like all gas boilers must have a 3/4" supply gas pipe, except it ain't retrospective!

telephone boiler sales spiel - dadbif
Never, ever let British Gas into your home, they will instantly condemn your boiler, all they are after is your money...
This advice came from one of their own "engineers"..
telephone boiler sales spiel - scot22

Thanks very much for the valuable replies - much appreciated.

Our boiler is over 30 years old - working well and reasonable gas bills. Friends appear to be replacing boilers approx every 5 years. Which is more environmentally friendly ?

Yes, we have found that with a number of BG engineers. Some on the other hand do appear to think.

telephone boiler sales spiel - alan1302

Thanks very much for the valuable replies - much appreciated.

Our boiler is over 30 years old - working well and reasonable gas bills. Friends appear to be replacing boilers approx every 5 years. Which is more environmentally friendly ?

Yes, we have found that with a number of BG engineers. Some on the other hand do appear to think.

The most environmentally friendly thing would be for your friend to buy a better quality boiler next time!

telephone boiler sales spiel - galileo
Never, ever let British Gas into your home, they will instantly condemn your boiler, all they are after is your money... This advice came from one of their own "engineers"..

Some years ago BG turned up to service father-in-law's gas fire, stated it had been incorrectly installed by cowboys and was illegal: father-in-law then produced invoice for installing it previous year by- guess who? BG! Red face and hasty exit of 'gas engineer'

telephone boiler sales spiel - Wackyracer

Like all gas boilers must have a 3/4" supply gas pipe, except it ain't retrospective!

That isn't true, The gas supply pipe to a boiler must be able to supply the right quantity of gas to the boiler to give the correct working pressure. In effect, if you boiler was right above the gas meter. It would be possible to run it on a 15mm pipe or if like mine it's a long way from the meter it has to have a 32mm pipe with all pulled bends to reduce pressure loss.

telephone boiler sales spiel - Engineer Andy

As an (actual) engineer in this field of work, there is only ONE law/regulation that has ever been made retrospective with regards to heating systems (both commercial and especially domestic) in the UK, namely that ALL boilers (or similar, that are not electric and have flues to get rid of combustion gases) now have to have inspection hatches strategically placed along the boxings/void spaces that contain the flues so that every flue joint/bend can be visually inspected (which it has to be when serviced, including using a sensor to detect any carbon monoxide [CO] leaks) and/or repaired. Previous to this incident, only new/replacement boiler systems needed this upgrade (installed from mid 2006).

Up until Jan 1st 2013 a plumber could still work on boilers without this modification but would only do so if the client has a CO detector fitted. After that date, any system not complying would be condemned and turned off, the engineer/plumber obliged to refuse to work on it (servicing or repairs) until the flue issue was reslved to their satisfaction. The client would then be still able to use their boiler, but entirely at their own risk.

Only flues fully open to the room (obviously) or completely encased in a leak-proof material (e.g. concrete) are exempt. This all came about when (supposedly - I only found out second hand) when a certain utlility firm's 'heating engineer' did not service an unusual home boiler (the same make/model type as mine [how I found out]) correctly, resulting in a CO leak which killed the home owner. The Health & Safety Executive, after an investigation, basically ordered Corgi (now 'Gas Safe') registered plumbers to do the above to be able to continue to service and repair any boilers (or similar devices).

Anyway, back to the original question - as others have said, its only newly-fitted boilers (except in a few unusual circumstances) that need to be 'A' rated on efficiency. The phone (sales) call is lying and if you can, you should report them to Gas Safe and Trading Standards if they definitely said ALL boilers (not just new ones) need to be A rated. I suspect the sales person is either incompetent or is fishing for gullable people to persuade (out of fear of 'breaking the law') them to buy their (probably poor quality [it wouldn't surprise me if their boilers weren't A rated - maybe cheap foreign knock-offs or suchlike]) boilers.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 30/01/2016 at 09:49

telephone boiler sales spiel - scot22

Thanks for the useful replies, especially Engineer Andy - your knowledge is very much appreciated.

Alan you appear to wish to be so clever. If you read carefully I referred to friends, in the plural. They have bought reputable makes : not sure how you are qualified to comment on their decision making ! I await a smart alec response.

telephone boiler sales spiel - concrete

The sales call is precisely that: a sales call. The operative on the end would not know a gas boiler from a dishwasher, they will have a script to follow. As for the claims, they are patently incorrect. All new boilers are 'A' rated for efficiency of performance. Not for reliability though. So buy a good make if possible. An 'A' rated boiler can be poorly made but it will burn gas at an efficient rate for the output it produces. However even older boilers are not too bad on efficiency if cleaned and serviced properly. My old Gloworm free standing boiler with a conventional flue( a lined chimney flue oulet) was over 75% efficient. I only replaced it because I altered the k****** and wanted a wall mounted boiler. The price of the new efficient and 'A' rated boiler will never be repaid because the price of the extra amount of gas the old boiler would use against the price of the new boiler would take over 15 years to recover. I doubt newer type boilers would last that long. The old cast iron Gloworm would still be going now at 37 years old. Also parts for the older boilers are peanuts compared to modern boilers. The moral is, if you have old older boiler get it cleaned and serviced and keep it as long as you can. Same as you would a good car. Cheers Concrete.

PS. Not been on here for a while. In the midst of substantial alterations to the bathroom, so will be pretty much tied up for the next few weeks too.

telephone boiler sales spiel - scot22

The moral is the same as what we think and do.

Hope all goes well with the bathroom.

telephone boiler sales spiel - alan1302

Thanks for the useful replies, especially Engineer Andy - your knowledge is very much appreciated.

Alan you appear to wish to be so clever. If you read carefully I referred to friends, in the plural. They have bought reputable makes : not sure how you are qualified to comment on their decision making ! I await a smart alec response.

A reputable make wouldn't need replacing every 5 years.

telephone boiler sales spiel - scot22

Your qualifications and data knowledge are ?

telephone boiler sales spiel - gordonbennet

We finally got our boiler replaced late last year, it was approx 22 years old and had only recenly started to play up, luckily we have an old school heating engineer who does such jobs for us.

The all incl end price was exactly 1/3rd the joke figure the BG sales bod quoted 5 or so years ago when we were told our existing boiler was near enough past it, including the sign today special discount..:-)

Ideal Independent Combi is now in place, how long it lasts we'll see, without a doubt its better in every way than the previous Vaillant, but then it is 22 years newer and if it lasts as long as that old girl did?

telephone boiler sales spiel - alan1302

Your qualifications and data knowledge are ?

Since when did people need qualifications to post on here? But data knowledge comes from my wife who worked daily with boilers and installatuions. One that is only lasting 5 years is obvisouly of poor quality or a botched install. Worcester Bosch boilers are ones that seem to last better. Got one ourselves.

telephone boiler sales spiel - galileo

One that is only lasting 5 years is obvisouly of poor quality or a botched install. Worcester Bosch boilers are ones that seem to last better. Got one ourselves.

Botched installations are, I suspect, the more likely cause. Agreed on virtues of Worcester Bosch, ours was recommended by our trusted engineer of 40+ years experience. At our previous house in the 1980s he put in an Ideal Mexico, which was still working perfectly when we moved in 2002.

telephone boiler sales spiel - Engineer Andy

Essentially a boiler designed for the home should (if of a reasonable quality or better) last for between 15 and 25 years, dependent upon the standard of the design/build, type of boiler and frequency and quality of maintenance.

My parents have a 25kW Ideal Mexico (floor-standing heat only boiler [pump separate]) which has ran very smoothly since it was installed back in 1996, only needing an annual service (a simple unit that the utility firms are familiar with) and a new programmer (separate to the boiler). Given a fair wind, it may even beat its BG predecessor, which lasted 35 years (from when the house was built). The efficiency isn't that high (I can't remember off the top of my head, but its probably in the mid-70s%), but as others have said, the savings of a 90% efficient 'A' rated new boiler take a LONG time to recoup if the purchase and installation costs are factored in (probably about £2000+).

I would have to spend about £3500 to replace mine, just because the idiots designing the homes where I live thought it would be good to stick the boilers (non-condensing - so no drain for a new condensing boiler [it will have to be pumped to the drain in the k******/WC]) in a cupboard in the middle of the flat, so that it has long concealed flue and gas pipe runs, which will require lots of expensive work (see my earlier post about flues - it also sort of applies to gas pipes) to install a modern boiler in its place (nowhere else to put a new one). As such, my unusual (and not very reliable) 'Powermax' boiler will have to last nearer to 20 years before its worth me changing (hopefully I will have moved by then - its 13yo now).

My rule is that unless the boiler is unsafe, very unreliable (and thus the expense of having new parts being continually fitted being, say, the equivalent of an extra service per year, as well as the inconvenience of no heating/hot water [99% of time its in winter, when you need it the most]) or less than 60% efficient/reliant on a fuel that is (compared to the available alternatives) getting very expensive, then keep the existing one until the aforementioned criteria are satisfied.

The payback on new boilers is often at least 10 years, if not longer (especially if your existing one is of reasonable efficiency anyway [70%+] and reliable/easy and cheap to service). Its ironically a very similar argument for replacing a car, though perhaps without the 'aesthetics' element.

As all boilers go, simple, proven designs always last longest (as has been said above) - I've surveyed sites where some from the early 1970s are still going strong, with the odd replacement parts here and there (wear and tear), yet others which were poorly designed/made/maintained only lasted 10 years or so. In my line of work (and in my view/experience), Ideal aren't exactly renouned for their boilers' reliability, though the Mexico seems to fit my 'simple and reliable' mantra.

Makes like Worcester-Bosch and Vaillant always come top (and with Which? too), most of the other major players are average as far as reliability is concerned, and is reflected in the purchase price. One tip to always make sure of is that your nominated plumber is trained to service/repair the boiler you're looking to buy - some unusual ones (like mine) require special courses for the plumbers to attend, which they may feel is an unwanted expense that they probably won't recoup and may set themselves up for being sued if they don't get a repair/service right. The same goes for the availability of consumables/parts if it goes wrong - I made the mistake as a junior engineer of not checking this (hindsight is a wonderful thing!) as I liked my flat far better than all the others (with other boilers), and have 'paid the price' as non-generic parts are about 50-100% more expensive than more common makes/boilers. Lucky for me that my plumber does have the knowledge to do the repairs when they are needed.

telephone boiler sales spiel - concrete

It's always the same Andy, a well designed product arrives from the factory only then the 'human operative' element comes into play. Location can play a big part in the system design too. That is why it will always pay to examine the posibilty of re-siting the boiler when it comes to replacement.

The construction company I worked for has their own Plumbing, Heating and Electrical sections, with which I worked for and with over my 50 year career. Believe me the difference in talent and experience from the best to the worst operative is huge. We had one 'numpty' who took the whole 2 hours to pass the burner service test in the GasSafe exam. Most decent fitters took about 15 to 20 minutes. Yet the 'numpty' is still on the GasSafe register as a qualified installer and repairer of gas appliances. Personally I would not let him service our dogs' kennel. Just like cars are boilers. Buy the best you can afford and then choose carefully the installer then look after the boiler and system. It pays to heed good advice from people who have experienced the problem previously. Hence our amazing forum. QED.

Cheers Concrete

telephone boiler sales spiel - likeweld

Nope there are no regulations that homes have to meet this standard. Don't be falling for scams like that. If it was the case then you wouldn't hear it from a cold caller.

telephone boiler sales spiel - Falkirk Bairn

Maybe the robot calls you receive come from this man!

preview.tinyurl.com/grkrls2

Must admit we are down to the odd call per week currently.

Keep them on the line and show an interest and after building their hopes of an interested party you drop the tag line.

PPI- Paid off the mortgage in 1980', 90's, Never borrow cash

Gas boiler - our boiler is 20 years old, then tell them NO GAS in the street

Equity release for Pensioners needing cash - tell them age, inflate value. How much can I borrow then tell them you have a share portfolio of £500K+

telephone boiler sales spiel - FoxyJukebox

Off course it is necessary when buying anything to get a nice "target price" to compare, however unless i was absolutely desperate( and sadly a new boiler IS a stress purchase) , I would always prefer to take the advice of my regular plumber on all matters of boiler service and replacement. It is they who know the system, are able to give it the yearly "once over" and advise on any additional/"legal" work necessary. They also know my house , the radiators, locations of water pump and other oddities. EG-Boiler fitters/service guys from the energy companies or large heating engineering concerns are not so reliable from my experience.

I am also extremely comfortable that when replacement is necessary my guy will be able to source the right bolier at a reasonable price for my needs. He will also fit it properly, tutor me on how it works and be available should there need to be any adjustments. He will also be familiar with it when he comes to check/service it twelve months later .

telephone boiler sales spiel - scot22

Thanks for all of these very helpful posts. Doubleug, that is exactly how I think.