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Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - Bromptonaut

The Dept for Transport is consulting on an increase in fines/points where Fixed Penalty Notices are issued for using handheld 'phone while driving:

tinyurl.com/hq8dj4u" target="_blank">tinyurl.com/hq8dj4u (pdf doc on gov website).

Main points are upping fine from £100 to £150 and points from 3 to 4 (6 for offences at wheel of LGV/PSV). Rationale is reduction of casualties, particularly pedestrians and cyclists.

Contains some interesting discussion on phones/apps with a 'safe driving mode' which reduces functionality when it senses phone moving at much over walking pace.

Consultation closes on 15/03/2016.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - Avant

Many thanks for letting us know.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - John Boy

For me, at least, the link doesn't work.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - Bromptonaut

Apologies. I'd posted message in a couple of other places too using cut/paste & it looks as though the link was corrupted in process.

Try tinyurl.com/hq8dj4u

Edited by Bromptonaut on 26/01/2016 at 15:29

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - oldroverboy.

How about £150 + 4 points 1st offence then doubled each time afterwards.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - FP

The proposed penalties are irrelevant and won't act as a deterrent unless the lawbreakers think there's a good chance they'll be caught.

“We have already highlighted the large reductions in the numbers of full-time roads policing officers affecting many police forces. On average across the country there was a 23 per cent cut between 2010 and 2014 – meaning there are 1,279 fewer officers patrolling our roads." (RAC head of external affairs, Pete Williams, quoted in Autoexpress)

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - RT

The proposed penalties are irrelevant and won't act as a deterrent unless the lawbreakers think there's a good chance they'll be caught.

“We have already highlighted the large reductions in the numbers of full-time roads policing officers affecting many police forces. On average across the country there was a 23 per cent cut between 2010 and 2014 – meaning there are 1,279 fewer officers patrolling our roads." (RAC head of external affairs, Pete Williams, quoted in Autoexpress)

Exactly - as well as voting/implementing new laws/regulations, parliament should be voting/implementing additional funding to enforce them - not just motoring laws but everything.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - Trilogy

How about £!,000 and 9 points?

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - nick62

I think it is a £1,000 fine in the Isle of Man.

I cannot undrstand the rationale as to why the penalty is so low when it has been proved it is as dangerous as driving under the influence!

So easy to link to the in-car system with bluetooth as well, (but my 'phone isn't a smartphone and I don't do faceache, etc., so no temptation to be texting all the time).

I guess I spot one driver looking down at their 'phone every time I stop at the lights? Madness.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - daveyjp
From day 1 it should have been the same penalty as for drink driving. Last week I was nearly side swiped by a white van man who was playing with his phone while doing about 60 mph on the inside lane of a motorway.

It will get worse, look and listen at the latest car ads with full phone functionality, systems which read text messages, faceache posts etc.

Hit hard now and it may make a difference. A few quid and points won't deter anyone.
Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - RickyBoy
I couldn't agree more re: this.

£150.00 is the cost of a 'good lunch' in the Home Counties. Hit them with £1000.00 from the start, payable in full at the time too, regardless of circumstance. Double for second offence and so on plus none of this £2.50 over the next 300-weeks nonsense. If you can't pay the fine, don't do the crime...

...in an hour+ of country-lane lunchtime cycling we must come across 2/3 perpetrators without fail. Guess they feel they're most unlikely, if at all, to be caught by Plod on a D-road, and don't get me started on the amount of litter discarded along the same lanes. Utterly, utterly depressing....

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - nick62
..........................and don't get me started on the amount of litter discarded along the same lanes. Utterly, utterly depressing....

I fear we are getting overrun by a population who's parents thought it was the schoolteachers job to teach them how to behave?

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - Energyman
Add 8 hours litter picking in a hi viz vest to the penalty then they might start to get some results.
Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - Bolt
Add 8 hours litter picking in a hi viz vest to the penalty then they might start to get some results.

I can see women doing that, who imo are the worst offenders, on the phone shouting at someone with one hand, while litter picking with the other

cannot go without a phone you know

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - Ethan Edwards

How about a Billion pounds and the blood of your first born. Mind you with zero chance of any enforcement it's a moot question.

The Home Office is like the Governor in Blazing Saddles. ..Harrumph..we have to be seen to be doing something. Got to protect our phoney baloney jobs. Etc

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - NARU

I have trouble reconciling two parts of Government:

When money is being distributed: £73.10 a week (JSA) or £155 a week (new pension).

But when it comes to the justice system, we can exact more than a week's income for an infraction.

Surely the time has come to admit that just ramping up the fines isn't working.

If we're serious about changing behaviour we need to change the probability of being caught AND look for non-monetary 'fines' - such as litter pickling.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - nailit

Just going off topic some what, but what gets me angry is why in the press and media etc. the Gov. pension is classed under 'Benefits'.

Now go and ask any old pensioner how they feel claiming benefits and then make sure you duck!

They have (typically anyway not all) worked for 40 'odd years and paid in taxes to find now their pension is referred to as a benefit. Not sure when this happened maybe it's a modern re-terming by the younger reporters. I don't feel it's quite right, and a certain 'newspaper' consistantly reports anything with benefits to be in the same list as the pension.

There got that off my chest. (must have got out of bed the wrong side).

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - skidpan

Just going off topic some what, but what gets me angry is why in the press and media etc. the Gov. pension is classed under 'Benefits'.

Now go and ask any old pensioner how they feel claiming benefits and then make sure you duck!

Not bothered what they call it providing they pay it into my bank when I reach retirement age.

If they called it "Fuk Wits weekly beer and lottery contribution" it would be closer to the truth.

Edited by skidpan on 27/01/2016 at 12:04

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - nailit

Hmm, re last.

Could be insulting that, but I'm thick skinned, not sure if any pensioners out there are less 'thick skinned' so to speak.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - FP

'Not bothered what they call it providing they pay it into my bank when I reach retirement age.

If they called it "Fuk Wits weekly beer and lottery contribution" it would be closer to the truth.'

That may be "closer to the truth" in your case, Skidpan. Don't know about the rest of us.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - skidpan

'Not bothered what they call it providing they pay it into my bank when I reach retirement age.

If they called it "Fuk Wits weekly beer and lottery contribution" it would be closer to the truth.'

That may be "closer to the truth" in your case, Skidpan. Don't know about the rest of us.

Don't drink and never bought a lottery ticket so nowhere near the truth in my case.

But take my mother in law as an example. Moans about the government, moans about how much pension she gets yet when she collects the pension(still demands cash - wont have it into the bank) she buys £10 of tickets. She cannot see that is simply reducing her pension by £10 a week.

We call it the idiot tax.

Only 7 years to go before I satrt getting my "benefit".

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - FP

'Only 7 years to go before I satrt getting my "benefit".'

Well on the way to becoming a grumpy old man, then.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - skidpan

'Only 7 years to go before I satrt getting my "benefit".'

Well on the way to becoming a grumpy old man, then.

Been grumpy for years.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - FP

"Been grumpy for years."

Some of us - the more observant, that is - had begun to speculate this might be the case.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - nailit

I recall when the gov stopped the pensions booklets and my mother having to use a card and pin number. Very stupid gov decision as many oldies can't remember a pin or password for longer than 1 hour. Factor in dementia and alzhiemer it's a joke. Not to mention writing the pin on the card etc.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - RickyBoy

I recall when the gov stopped the pensions booklets and my mother having to use a card and pin number.

Been there, done that. Mine could ONLY ever understand cash in her purse, given to her by my father on a weekly basis. A very similar arrangement to the one that currently exists between myself & Mrs RB then :–) ...

...anticipating my first SP payment in mid-March (understand its paid a month in arrears). Have completed the online notification so am expecting everything to go 'swimmingly' – just as it did for my buddy last March who waited 9-weeks for the 'system' to be convinced he was who he actually claimed to be and make an initial payment!!!

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - piggy

Getting back to the OPS original subject! Why not give these idiots a three month driving ban for a first offence,rising to six months or a year for subsequent offences? Driving and texting/phoning is proven to have as bad an effect on ones driving as being over the drink limit,therefore should be punished in a similar manner. The trouble is the present lot in power have decimated the police resulting in a very low chance of being caught.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - jamie745

I keep reading that it's 'proven' that using a phone while driving is as dangerous as drink driving. Sounds a bit odd that one, certainly got a whiff of 'one study says it does but we'll ignore the 372 which didn't find the same result' about it, but that's beside the point anyway.

The problem is using a phone while driving is so common and prevalent it doesn't really matter what you do. For every one the Police have the time to pull over, another fifty will drive past tapping away on Whatsapp. I think some insurance company survey found 30% (roughly) of drivers see no problem with it, so with numbers like that any law becomes unenforceable.

For what it's worth I don't tend to use the phone while driving but I don't see the harm in the odd message or call to let work know you'll be late if you're sat in traffic doing 0.3mph as that barely qualifies as 'driving' in my opinion. That's one thing, but when I see people using both hands to text while doing 60 that is.....quite skillful actually.

I couldn't do it. Would crash right away.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - drd63

Jamie 745, agreed I'm not condoning either but all this "phoning is as bad as drink driving" is rubbish. If I were to drive 60 miles while p***ed I'd be a danger for an hour or more. If phoning it's unlikely to be for the full 60 minute duration and the real danger is that short period of time when dialing.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - FP

An attempt to debunk the theory that using a mobile is as dangerous as drink-driving is a huge irrelevance.

What is not in dispute is that using the phone is a significant distraction, that it constitutes a cognitive overload to the driver/user that in certain situations results in an impairment broadly similar to being over the alcohol limit.

The law is, as always, a blunt instrument and while having an accident at 0.3 mph is unlikely to result in anything serious, using a phone at a greater speed might well do so.

The point is that the drink-driver has become a social pariah, whereas the phone-user has not, as shown by public attitudes.

Edited by FP on 28/01/2016 at 22:03

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - jamie745

The drink driver is viewed as a clown because that's a pretty straight forward, cut and dried concept which everybody can understand and get behind. Phoning while driving is a grey area as there's so many variations. Even the law itself recognises this my insisting on hands free systems, so all the Government really dislike is the physical act of holding the phone in the hand - which I do find amusing because that infers you cannot drive one handed and I know a gentleman who drives perfectly well with just one arm.

The law isn't this sketchy with drink driving, they don't say you can be a bit p***ed so long as you have a cup holder do they. But the hands free part is an omission that you'll never fully stop people using a phone while driving. Its unrealistic and unenforceable to attempt. It took the government a good decade or so to legislate on this, so plenty of people will have been driving one handed on the phone for years quite legally and think 'didnt cause me a problem before....'

Personally I think the newer phenomenon of texting drivers is worse and I have to say in my experience young women are the most consistent culprits.

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - galileo

One reason 'hands free' is allowed is that single-manned traffic cops use radio while driving, so it can't reasonably be banned. (Yes I know, they will say traffic cops are super drivers and able to drive and talk at once).

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - RT

Drivers DO have too many distractions in the cabin these days - phones, satnavs, audio, car computers - and passengers!

It's just not practical to differentiate between operating a hands-free phone and adjusting the temperature on many modern cars with touch-screens and no buttons, so I don't see any change in legislation coming.

Personally, I won't use a phone in any form while driving - and I deliberately bought an old-school car with buttons, but even that has a touch screen!

Oh, I taught myself years ago to ignore nagging passengers!

Phoning While Driving - Consultation on Penalties - groaver

If some people are going to be stupid about how they use their phone, maybe Darwinism will sort out the gene pool:

tinyurl.com/z9kbkta

Edited by groaver on 29/01/2016 at 15:25