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Urgent Help Needed Please - sheebs

hey im looking for some advice or help on my matter. I live in scotland so im guesing scotslaw would apply here.

In April 2015 i part exchanged my car into a nissan dealership. that very day i signed all the relevant paperwork and took my new car home. When i got home i photocopied the V5 slip i was given to send off to DVLA to notify them of the sale of the car. i also photocopied the 1st class stamped envelope i was using. That very same day i posted the envelop at the post box near my house. i didnt go to an actual post office so i dont have proof of actually posting it and to be honest i never really needed it before

I then got a letter from DVLA in August notifying me that i am being fined for failing to insure the sold car on the last day of July. I immediately sent a letter to dvla with the photocopy of the envelope i used and v5 slip along with the purchase invoice of my old car that was given to me by the nissan dealership. All the evidence i provided had the date of the sale which was in april. Now i know i posted the V5 slip off and the envelope was clearly labed with the address on the back of the slip and it was stamped so it either got lost in the post or the DVLA lost it in house.

Based on the evidence i sent them, they updated thier records to show that i am no longer the owner of the vehicle. But they are still trying to fine me for not insuring my car on the last day of July. I dont see how they can fine me for not insuring a car three months after the fact i sold it and they clearly accept im no longer the owner based on the evidence i provided.

i then told the nissan dealership about this and they have also gotten in touch with DVLA on numerous occasions over the phone and by post to tell them that i had indeed sold my vehicle to them in april so there was no way i could insure the car in July as i was no longer in ownership of the vehicle.

the dvla still insit i need to pay and since i feel i have done nothing wrong as i did everything that was legally required of me by posting the relevant V5 slip off i decided not to pay. the DVLA have now sent me a letter saying they are taking the matter to court to be settled so i will be recieveing a court summons soon.

i went and spoke to citizens advice and the lady i spoke to said becuase i didnt phone dvla 4 weeks after i had sent the V5 slip off, to ask them where my aknowledgement slip was, for that reason i am guilty.

I looked on the legistlation . gov website and looked at the legistlation concerning the sale of a car to a motor trader and i did everything according to the legistlation and nowhere on the legislation does it mention call dvla after 4 weeks if you dont recieve your acknowledgment letter.

im a student so im busy trying to get through my course and ever since they closed my local DVLA branch a couple of years ago they have consitantly been slow in everything. wether its dealing with retention documents or changes to the v5 etc. and to be honest i didnt even think about the aknowledgement slip as the car i had part exchanged had alredy been sold on and VMC have been sending me letters asking me to tell them my milage when i sold the car so they could stamp out clocking. so i just assumed the change had happened and dvla probably forgot to notify me.

anyways im now due a court summons and im worried as i was told its cirminal prosecution.

if you have been in a similar situation any advice would be greatly appreciated

thank you

Urgent Help Needed Please - skidpan

Go to court, take all the evidence with you e.g. the photocopy of the slip you sent to the DVLA signed and dated by the dealer in April and enjoy watching them squirm.

You have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Urgent Help Needed Please - sheebs

Thanks for the quick reply just a little worried never been to court let alone get stopped by the police.

the lady i saw at citizens advice who i explained the case to said i was guilty and need to get a criminal law solicitor asap and that just freaked me out even more.

Urgent Help Needed Please - galileo

Thanks for the quick reply just a little worried never been to court let alone get stopped by the police.

the lady i saw at citizens advice who i explained the case to said i was guilty and need to get a criminal law solicitor asap and that just freaked me out even more.

She has probably been trained to say that to guard against CA being sued for inadequate advice. (colloquially known as a**e covering).

I would also think your evidence should persuade the court to dismiss the case, MagistratesCourts are usually helpful to members of the public representing themselves over matters of this type.

However, ring round local Solicitors, you will probably find one who will give you a half hour free consultation and a more expert opinion.

Urgent Help Needed Please - sheebs

I phoned up most of the local solicitors who take on legal aid work as i am not in a state to afford a case being a student and working only part time on the weekened, but all of them refused free consultaion so i sent an email to the local Civil Legal Assistance Office with help in finding a relavant legal aid solicitor. So im kinda at a dead end now. Just waiting on a reply from them.

The evidnce i have on hand are:
Photocopy of the relevant V5 slip concerning sale to motortrader signed, dated.
Photocopy of the Clearly labled envelope with the address on the back of the V5 slip and the 1st class stamp on the envelope.
Original purchase invoice of car given to me by dealership.
Print outs of Letters the Dealership sent out to DVLA telling them i had sold the car.
Photocopies of all the letters sent back and forth between me and DVLA regarding the matter.

hopefully thats enough to persuade the court.

I just dont understand what they are coming at me for. they say i didnt insure the car in July but i transfered the insurance from my old car to my new car in april so shouldnt they be saying i failed to insure the sold car from that date i transfered the insurance.

Urgent Help Needed Please - skidpan

You have all the info you need.

Go to court and enjoy it. Just state the facts and show them the evidence.

You might even get your expenses for the day. Keep all your receipts.

Urgent Help Needed Please - Dwight Van Driver

DVLA have no authority to MAKE you INSURE a car.

They do have certain powers in relation to declaring SORN on a car or matters in relation to excise duties and notification of change of ownership.

Please clarify just what exactly they are 'fining' you for.

From what stated I cannot see DVLA winning so consider another letter tpo then confirming that you you will pleas Not Guilty to any summons. If they persist then as advised above you have all the evidence to rebut DVLA allegation.

dvd

Urgent Help Needed Please - sheebs

The letters are all headed Failure to insure followed by the number plate of the sold car and saying i am being fined for not insuring my car.

So it seems like they are taking me to court becuase i refused to pay the fine

Urgent Help Needed Please - dieselnut

Have a read through this previous post on the matter.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=97518

He's been there, done that & got the T shirt.

Stick to your guns & go to court with all your evidence & take pleasure watching their solicitor squirm.

Urgent Help Needed Please - concrete

Hello sheebs, dieselnut is right. Another forum member has recently been through this with the DVLA. In a nutshell, if you posted it then you are free and clear. There is a high court precedence for this type of case which applies UK wide, so Scotland is not excepted. Simply write to them with a copy of your copies, explain you sold the vehicle in question to a dealer. The dealer will confirm this. You then posted the relevant paperwork to them. If they have lost it, then tough. Tell them if they don't accept your explanation of events then they can go and whistle and you will see them in court. Then expect a snotty letter stating they will 'let you off on this occasion'. Then you can send it back stating 'there is nothing to be let off from, so you can keep you letter and place it where the sun doesn't shine'. That should make you feel better. It is a real pity that some timid people are bullied by these reprehensible tactics. So go for them.

Good luck. Cheers Concrete

Urgent Help Needed Please - Brit_in_Germany

Are you entitled to a refund of any unused months of the RFL? If so, put in a claim and take them to the small claims court when they refuse to pay. Also, would the car have been insured under the dealer's trade policy?

Urgent Help Needed Please - tag1

HISheebs,

I have joined the forum solely to reply to this post.

This has to be one of the best scams ever !! I has virtually the same happen to me.I dug my heels in for exactly the same reasons as you.

Stick to your guns as previously advised,if they follow the same patter as with me you will be asked to declare the reasons/evidence that you intend to rely on at court.You will then hear nothing until a couple of days before.You then get the letter saying they withdraw the charges.

I think the majority of people will comply with the demand in the first instance assuming that an organisation the size/importance of the dvla couldnt possibly be wrong.

Dont worry you will be ok

Urgent Help Needed Please - sheebs

Hey thanks for the reply

yeah it really does feel like a huge scam i can only imagine they send out a few 1000 of these letters every week and im sure majority of them get paid for the fear of court action.

I know i posted the V5 slip and i genuinely tried to resolve the matter when i was told about it by sending them all the relevant evidence and also by getting the dealership involved but they seemed more interested in getting paid so yeah im sticking to my guns and i will see them in court

Urgent Help Needed Please - sheebs

thanks for the reply

im not sure how much i was entitled to but by the time they did get my evidence they refunded me £7 and to be honest i was probably entilted to more but im not fussed about that as at most il get a few more quids. the car cost £30 to tax.

Edited by sheebs on 10/11/2015 at 17:07

Urgent Help Needed Please - sheebs

Hey thanks for your reply i spoke to a law lecturer in my uni and he said this is a really stupid matter to go to court over and hes amazed that dvla have taken it this far. He told me it would be goign to a very low court and i shoudlnt bother with a solicitor as if i go down that route it would be cheaper to just pay the fine. He explained that i should get a summons soon and given a chance to present my evidence to the court then i would be given a date to attend court. He also said to send all the evidence to the court when the time comes and most likely the court will dismiss the case becuase its so trivial and all your evidence is on point and if a judge does find you guilty for this he has to be a cold hearted judge.

so now im just waiting for the court summons and il reply to that

Urgent Help Needed Please - Brit_in_Germany

Have a read of this decision concerning the law relating to service by post:

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2011/2501.html

Urgent Help Needed Please - concrete

Nice link from Brit in Germany. In essence sheebs you are home and dry. Read the link and then print it off and cite it as your defence. Slam Dunk! to you.

For mischief you could also say you were considering citing the defence of:

Private Eye v Arkle. Look it up, it is a hoot. The defence is a simple but well used phrase for dismissing irritants and consists only of two carefully chosen words. Stick to your guns and good luck. Return to the forum and tell us how it all works out too. Cheers Concrete