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Ford Ecotec Engines - Dissappointing emissions from class leading engine - Steveieb

Dis anyone see the report in last Sunday Times about the levels of N0X emitted from the class leading Ecotec engines.

Apparently higher than a Range Rover and from a 1 liter engine!

Ford massaged the figures by publishing the rolling road results . But the everyday figures are a dissaster.

Can the tech brigade provide a link please?

Ford Ecotec Engines - Dissappointing emissions from class leading engine - brum

strangely enough, the day before yesterday I went to get an aircon regas and in the bay next to mine the techs were working on a fairly new ford focus. They kept flooring the pedal and the amount of black soot that kept coming was a sight to see. About 20 times they tried for 10-30 seconds each time and it got no better. Meanwhile the MOT tester chatted to me and told me that it didnt stand a cat in hell's chance of passing....

Ford Ecotec Engines - Dissappointing emissions from class leading engine - Leif

Yes I read that, more than a diesel engine. Something to do with higher burn temperatures allowing the formation of NOX. I assume all small ECO engines are the same including my VW Up!

Manufacturers have a history of massaging results. MPG figures are done using cars with no wing mirrors etc. Emissions tests are stepped round by having engine management software that detects when a standard EU test is being performed, and adjusts the engine accordingly. EU tyre label results are from manufacturers own tests, which are easily 'improved'.

Ford Ecotec Engines - Dissappointing emissions from class leading engine - Wackyracer

Sometimes they get caught out for massaging the figures.

www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/03/hyundai-a...y

Edited by Wackyracer on 18/06/2015 at 14:09

Ford Ecotec Engines - Dissappointing emissions from class leading engine - slkfanboy

As far as I can see all the figures are rubbish CO2 and NOX etc etc The people performing the testing all use the same rolling road tests. Wing mirrors off , gaps taped up. brakes in some cases disconnected. You name it they do it.

Real road figures are bound to be a shock. Small engine with turbo most likely to produce more NOX due to high temperature oxidation

Ford Ecotec Engines - Dissappointing emissions from class leading engine - daveyjp
And judging by the less than a year old Fords on various dealer websites they really are pushing this engine. Almost every Focus has the 1.0.

I have even seen a test on TV where they used a 1.0 Cmax to tow a caravan.
Ford Ecotec Engines - Dissappointing emissions from class leading engine - alan1302

MPG figures are done using cars with no wing mirrors etc.

No, they are not.

The tests are done on a rolling road.

Ford Ecotec Engines - Dissappointing emissions from class leading engine - skidpan

The people performing the testing all use the same rolling road tests. Wing mirrors off , gaps taped up. brakes in some cases disconnected.

The only truth in the above quote is the fact the tests are done on a rolling road.

On a rolling road there is no wind resistance since the car is stationary, this is factored in later using manufacturers figure which may or may not be accurate.

But taking off the mirrors and taping up gaps would achieve nothing. And disconecting the brakes would make slowing down during the various phases of the test very difficult.

Reality check required (or listen less to pub talk).

Ford Ecotec Engines - Dissappointing emissions from class leading engine - slkfanboy

The only truth in the above quote is the fact the tests are done on a rolling road.

On a rolling road there is no wind resistance since the car is stationary, this is factored in later using manufacturers figure which may or may not be accurate.

But taking off the mirrors and taping up gaps would achieve nothing. And disconecting the brakes would make slowing down during the various phases of the test very difficult.

Reality check required (or listen less to pub talk).

Any one would have thought they put a fan in front of the car, just a minute they do! google and you can find a number of routes used rig the figures. Autosport recently suggested we are about 5 years away from getting figures that match to real life conditions
Ford Ecotec Engines - Disappointing emissions from class leading engine - Avant

I thought I saw in that piece that the Ford Ecotec engine put out a higher level of NOX than others, including the VW Up.

Interestingly in the Captur thread Happy Blue says that the small Renault 0.9 turbo has the same poor economy on the open road as the Ford - although good in town.

If you see this, Leif, what's the consumption like on the Up? Is yours a 59 or 74 bhp model?

Edited by Avant on 21/06/2015 at 18:48

Ford Ecotec Engines - Disappointing emissions from class leading engine - daveyK_UK

I'm no VW group fan, but the performance and MPG in town and on the motorway from the 1.2 Tsi in the Skoda Rapid has been a delight.

Ford Ecotec Engines - Disappointing emissions from class leading engine - skidpan

Any one would have thought they put a fan in front of the car, just a minute they do!

They do indeed because if they did not the car would overheat. Its there to cool the engine because the car is not moving.

google and you can find a number of routes used rig the figures.

What do you mean. The test route is on a rolling road in a laboratory so what route do they use?

Here is a link to a DFT page showing the test cycle

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/the-fuel-consumption-testing-scheme.asp

Ford Ecotec Engines - Disappointing emissions from class leading engine - brum

Havent read too much of the above replies here but heres my input...

Yes, the tests are done on a rolling road, etc etc. BUT the rolling road is set up with drag factors to simulate rolling and wind resistance. These drag factors, often supplied by the manufacturer, are obtained by running a "production" vehicle in neutral on a level test track at some speed then measuring the distance it rolls to a stop. Several runs back and forth etc ensure "accurate" factors are generated.

This is where the selected vehicle, tyres (e.g. obscure eu base model with eco variant skinny tyres), taped up gaps etc etc sneek into the equation.

Thats my understanding.

Edited by brum on 23/06/2015 at 00:49

Ford Ecotec Engines - Disappointing emissions from class leading engine - Leif
I have a TakeUp, and get about 60mpg. I used to get 67mpg in summer, 62mpg in winter, on a better route. Lovely car, not noisy inside normally, but more sound proofing would be good.
Ford Ecotec Engines - Disappointing emissions from class leading engine - HandCart

Those are good figures, Leif - I have a colleague with an Up (I think it's the higher-powered version) and he gets 49 commuting and "high 50s" on a long run.

But that's a normally-aspirated engine of a size befitting the size of the car, not a turbo'd 1 litre lugging a Mondeo - the thread's really about NOx emissions:

So which is worse for us humans to breathe-in: NOx, or diesel particulates??

Ford Ecotec Engines - Disappointing emissions from class leading engine - slkfanboy

To get good MGP it's temping to run an engine lean, remember all the old lean burn engine of the 1990's. (Those produced loads of NOX). Ford has taylored the output to have NOX within EURO 6 limits and no more. when the car is rigged to pass a test.

Compare a VW up engine of 74hp with a 1.0t 100 or 125hp is unrealistic at best. Sadly VW don't have a direct alternative at it falls between the 1.2/1.4tsi engines. For example Ford has a CO2 output of <99g/km with the VW UP 74 hp engine alread at 108g/km. The Bluemotion 1.0 up seams quite able to average around 55mpg. rather better than the fords at 45mpg. This is simply comparing "apples and pairs" as we dont have the same power output. So we have to look at equ. powered engines else ware in the VW 1.2tsi/1.4tsi engines range and back to around the 45mpg once more.

That leaves the open question is nox worse than co2? well NOX is a group of gases not one gas. The new 5 gas analysers don't appear to provide breakdown for what NOX gas is detected in NO2?.So basically it's seams a question with no clear answer (NOX = Smog?).

So until testing standards relate to real world experences I see testing as close to pointless and only usable for TAX calculation purposes.

Ford Ecotec Engines - Disappointing emissions from class leading engine - skidpan

So until testing standards relate to real world experences I see testing as close to pointless and only usable for TAX calculation purposes.

That is exactly what I (and any other sane buyer) has been doing for the last 20 years.

The new car we collected yesterday has a combined of 65.7 mpg and a CO2 of 99. This is great since its £0 tax under the current system but we have no expectation of getting anywhere near the official MPG. The owners Forum and HJ real mpg suggest about 45 mpg and if we get near that we will be happy.

The NOx is quoted as .007. Acording to the brochures the Fords are .034, nearly 5 x greater.