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Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Dwight Van Driver

Shortly to purchase a car with an electronic handbrake. Whilst I understand how it works (I think) being long in the tooth and finding it harder to assimulate new gadgets any advice from those that have it would be appreciated.

Will it be possible to control 'creep' as I can with the lever handbrake without recourse to foot brake.

dvd

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - gordonbennet

Basically DVD No.

There's no partial engagement nor disengagement, its either on or off.

You can apply and release them manually, or in most if not all cases as you engage drive the thing will release fully and when you stop and turn the ignition off will apply fully.

I don't have one, and won't ever be having one, i drove lots of the horrid things in my previous work.

To be fair they're OK when working right.

I have many reservations though mainly around increased wear over time to the clutch to trigger auto release, and increased costs due to brake pad/caliper servicing and replacement being now a garage job only with the right electronic equipment, and the serious costs involved when they fail out of warranty, plus the faff involved if and when it fails to release at all which has happened to me with brand new cars at delivery points with them stuck on the transporter.

My biggest question though is why? what benefit are they? what question has been answered by their introduction? what was wrong with a decent manual parking brake before?

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - scot22

I'm with GB on this. I accept I might be old fashioned etc but I can't see any reason for them. For me it would be a deal breaker - I will not buy a car with one.

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - catsdad
I agree with GB too.I had one on a company Avensis which was in an awkward place and a nuisance. Colleagues had them on a Passat, where it failed necessitating expensive repair. Another had it on an Insignia and nearly got trapped in a tight parking space on a hill because you can't use them to fine tune the hold on a slope. I will always avoid them if I can.
Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - slkfanboy

So i a jag for example. You get in/out of the car without worring the hand break is apply because it is, it's electronic. I ford focus i have to be sure to apply the hand brake fully, else is runs down a hill.

You miss use of the handbrake to control creap, is just that and offer no advantage other in car with a completely seperate handbrake break pad, it will ware out quicker and maybe break.

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - daveyjp
The advice from my MOT tester is to apply it manually, twice and leave the car in gear with fromt wheels turned towards the kerb.

He is shocked how many times he puts an electric handbrake car on the brake tester and the handbrake simply fails to hold anything. A colleague's new Vauxhall was written off after the electric handbrake failed and it rolled into his house,

Of course once applied there is no certainty it will release. A friend has just traded his Passat after the handbrake failed to release for the third time. On this occasion it was on his drive and the only option was to wait for a vehicle which could lift it and take it for repair.

So take precautions!
Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Bladerrw

These handbrakes come into their own with automatics. I find the operation on my Audi A6 to be absolutely seamless. I quite like it in that it just works without me knowing. I rarely manually apply it.

Having said that, I never used the manual handbrake much on my previous car which was also an auto.

If the car is a manual gear change then I'd prefer a manual brake.

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Bilboman

Nasty, nasty things, which should never have been invented.
Advantage 1 - more space for an enormous glovebox/armrest/cupholders/extra seat
Advantage 2 - smooth drive away from traffic lights and generally good on hills.
Disadvantage 1 - Can and do fail; expensive if out of warranty.
Disadvantage 2 - Slow to engage, occasional shock when it's off but you think it's on.
Disadvantage 3 - Not intuitive; difficult to change over - especially if changing/hiring cars. (No, I do not long for a Knight Rider style steering "wheel", either.)
Disadvantage 4 - No gradual application or release - only on or off.
Disadvantage 5 - impossible to park without brake on. Occasionally this is preferable owing to icy conditions; need to shuffle car forwards a few inches, e.g. a taxi parked at a rank.
Disadvantage 6 - absolutely ruins handbrake turns, J-turns etc. Ahem.

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Dwight Van Driver

O.M.G..........I am committed.......

Mental note : Buy large spirit level. Keep on the level, away from hills and tight spots.

Seriously the above posts indicate a lack of appreciation by manufacturers as to the feelings of their customers, which from the above sample indicate this should never have been brought in.

It also indicates to me that the Car Reviewers are in the pockets of the makers in not highlighting these deficiencies for fear of losing the free lunch??? (Sorry HJ)

When did you last read a review that really panned a vehicle and its bits?

dvd

PS Thanks guys.

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Happy Blue!

DVD - don't worry at all. I loved the one in my S-Max. Five years of total reliablity and working very intuitively. I only ever applied it on a hill otherwise, just walk away from the car, and it applies itself and always released exactly when i wanted it to. Also, excellent in traffic with an automatic car. Leave the car in gear, apply the brake and then when you want to move off, just squeeze the accelerator and off you go. Easy!

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - TedCrilly

Spent 4 days in a hired passat when they were still relatively new. It took a bit of time to get some confidence with it, particulalry with hill-hold.....but after a while it all fell into place and I loved it.

Manufacturers think long and hard before adding things like this to their cars and extensive research and potential buyer opinion is always a factor before decisions are made. If they think its going to put people off they wont do it and you are going to argue about failures and repair costs you can apply that to every system and component found in a modern car. Has anyone here never had a manual handbrake fail or deteriate, is anyone going to say they never do?

25 or so years ago when ABS and remote c/l and imobillisers were coming in. I had customers who were refusing point blank to buy new cars with these fitted and citing the same reasons. Its unreliable, I dont trust it, expensive if it goes wrong etc etc. Now its gone full circle, they standard fitment and just another one of those things people expect to get for their money and would probably put people off if they were not fitted!

Technology advances and buyers want convenience. If this wasnt the case we would still all be driving Model T`s.

Get with the times folks, get with the times.

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Dwight Van Driver

But Ted.............

...........of the nine that have responded to my post:

SEVEN against..............................TWO for.

Surely those against cannot all be dinosaurs?

I am starting to be a worried bunnie....

dvd

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Bladerrw

Surely those against cannot all be dinosaurs?

dvd

I take it you are new here...

Edited by Bladerrw on 11/06/2015 at 14:56

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Wackyracer

Has anyone here never had a manual handbrake fail or deteriate, is anyone going to say they never do?

Of course a mechanical handbrake system can have faults but, when they do it is very cheap to repair. The last time I bought a handbrake cable it was about £20 which is a far cry from a renault electric handbrake module that will set the owner back around £700.

For me the answer is simple, if people cannot perform a hill start without rolling back they need to go back to the driving school.

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - nortones2

I think you put your finger on it, albeit with a transatlantic reach! IIRC many auto sites in the USA comment on the difficulty of controlling a manual car on the brakes on slopes. Due to their (general) treatment of the handbrake as a parking brake, they get all flustered when the car rolls in transition from the foot brake to accelerator. It's not so much going with the times, as makers dealing as best they can with the low standards of driving across the pond.

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - corax

"Get with the times folks, get with the times"

If getting with the times means having a simple device that worked turned into a complicated device that will be prone to expensive failure later in it's life when out of warranty then no thanks.

I'm not interested in buying new, I like to buy well engineered cars with a few miles under their belt, and the EPB is just a classic case of over egging the pudding. I can see the reason for things like ABS, electronic fuel injection, remote locking but this is a step too far and not needed. The only saving grace will be if they make the replacement parts much cheaper a few years down the line.

You should have spent a few more days with that hired passat because apparently that is one of the worst for problems and drives the owners crazy.

Buyers want convenience. Maybe, but it's no wonder there are so many fatso's waddling around in this country because they don't have to raise a finger to do anything anymore.

I admit though that I would like a modern car with steel wheels, no climate control and manual windows!

Edited by corax on 12/06/2015 at 18:55

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - The Gingerous One

Hi DVD,

All Jag XF's have one and as an XF owner, I have been happy with it. As the car is automatic (as all XF's are), there is no real issue with 'creep' or anything, or hill holding - I just stick it in D, release the handbrake and off I go.

In order not to blind people in queues, I do sometimes use it then as well and stick the 'box in Neutral & then put the handbrake on.

There is a little delay when I release, but there will also be a delay when I move the gearbox selector from N -> D so it's not really noticeable.

Rear pads have been known to only last 15k on the XF, but I've had 30k out of mine, so can't be that bad.

From the engineering aspect, looking at the rear calipers on the XF, it looks like the Jag has one motor that is activated by the handbrake switch and that motor in turn controls the handbrake cable to the caliper (i.e. when I look at the caliper I don't see wires for a handbrake switch, just a Bowden cable, the pad wear sensor wires & brake pipe for hydraulic brakes)

As to why are they fitted, well just think about how the design consultant who was putting together the XF interior would have felt if someone had come along and said "ELECTRIC HANDBRAKE, WITH A SWITCH ??? We'll have none of that, I want a proper handbrake. Hack out most of that centre console to make it fit..." :-)

After all, if it's going to fail, it will no doubt do so long out of warranty.....

Hope that helps (probably not if you are buying a manual car!)

cheers

Stu

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - gordonbennet

Fair points Ted and HB and the others who are happy with them.

Much depends on what you expect from your cars, who pays for them and how long they are kept.

For the new car buyer who replaces before it gets too old it really doesn't matter how much electronic/automatic stuff is on a vehicle, up to a point, if you like it buy it or specify it from your company.

For those who keep cars long term, or those who buy used the choices are different, and this might not be the concern of the new buyer but it might reflect in new car sales in certain groups when a vehicle gets a reputation for being trouble and their used values plummet...Renault Laguna/Grande Espace anyone, other French (and some German now though image is keeping values up so far) cars swiftly following suit, take the 1.6 Diesel of Doom which also found its way into other marques, please take it.

Some cars get to a certain age and literally no one wants them, others because they are known as long life durable and simple fix will always sell, at the moment the country is awash with easy house bubble based credit and people are spending borrowed money like they did before 2008...the implications of this i leave to you...difference being can these latest cars be kept long term, i don't think so.

Of course people have had manual handbrakes fail, invariably through neglect and poor servicing, but the servicing and repair of manual handbrakes is in the most part easily done by any garage or competent DiYer and easily affordable.

I freely admit i'm a luddite here, i have no intention of buying a car designed later than that sweet spot reached in the 90's (if i did it would probably be a Toyota hybrid) built up to about 04, they do everything SWMBO and i want and if chosen carefully and looked after can last decades...do you think a 2015 car with EPB DSG 14 airbags variable digital this that and the other will be similarly long lived?

I'm not looking forward to my next lorry, 2017 the present steed will come to the end of its lease, i'm stuck with an automated manual box (standard issue now cos no ones apparently capable of driving a lorry any more) but at least i have a manual variable pressure air parking brake, so i'm not forced to use hill hold to control it, when the replacement comes it will almost certainly have an EPB and HH might be the only choice then.

How the new will translate into getting into some of the unique places we have to put tankers to unload is anyone guess, we've had clutch failures already due to the vehicles being wholly incapable of full power jack knife reverses on hills at one customer unless you trick them by switching off all the electronics and dump air from certan axles to maximise traction, that sanction is bound to be programmed out over time and the newer drivers literally don't have a clue how to do it because they never had to learn in the first place, not their fault they didn't have to.

By 2025 will anyone apart from classic car owners and luddites be able to perform a hill start or other fine control of a vehicle on their own without the computer doing it for them? just how far will this fetish for automation go.

Edited by gordonbennet on 11/06/2015 at 13:56

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - catsdad
Nice debate folks. Not all new features are to be deplored but neither should we accept them as unquestionable progress. Whatever became of the Quadric Allegro steering wheel for example? My car is very well engineered (current model Civic) and is head and shoulders above my Sierras, Saabs and Cavalers of last century and even my 3 series of 2002. Among lots of other good features I wouldn't be without aircon, ABS, decent sound system and a feeling of solidity. However I can do without electric handbrakes, inadequate puncture solutions, small turboed engines, low profile tyres ( a fashion rather than an improvement for all but extreme conditions) and alloy wheels - although these are all but unavoidable. As for electroniic handbrakes I guess they will too become unavoidable in time but hopefully allied to smart software that gets around their shortcomings. That of course adds to the computerisation load in the car and to the unrepairability of what should be a basic control.
Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Bromptonaut

I'm not looking forward to my next lorry, 2017 the present steed will come to the end of its lease.

Do you have a specific vehicle allocated to you GB?

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - gordonbennet

Do you have a specific vehicle allocated to you GB?

Yes, others use it on nights probably 3 times a week and almost every day when i'm off shift, struggle sometimes to keep it up to standard as not everyone takes the same (possibly a little OCD but don't tell) care nor appreciate quite what a good job they have, but thats the same in every walk of life...you know where i work so you're already aware no doubt, ISTR you clocked me one new years day on the M1.

Plinky's post has me a little concerned, we've started to get a few Volvos in our mixed fleet and they now come with an EPB, since i started driving lorries my method of reversing (with power steering anyway) is to open the door hold onto it with my right hand and lean slightly out, probably not the current method and H&S box tickers PLC would have a fit, but more accurate and safer overall, i can argue the reasons and benefits of that if anyone's interested.

I haven't tried one of the new model yet because they haven't been equipped for tanker fleet, if the EPB auto applies the parking brake as per Plinky's Golf when i open the door that's going to see me opting for something else, if i'm given the opportunity...had i better start going drinky poos with the gaffer..:-)

Anyway its still over 2 years away, much can happen in that time, ''my round guvnor''

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Bromptonaut

I clock those rather conspicuous tankers on a regular basis.

Is there somewhere in North Staffs between Ashbourne and Leek where powder tankers go for repair? Seem to be loads of them around two different premises.

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - gordonbennet

Is there somewhere in North Staffs between Ashbourne and Leek where powder tankers go for repair? Seem to be loads of them around two different premises.

You're probably thinking of WG tanker hire, yes they do have a site out around Leek and another one at Foston, they service and repair and paint tanks as well as hire them, i've been into Foston a number of times as we rent a few from them but not the other site, good people.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/06/2015 at 12:47

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Plinky

I like the electronic brake on my '64 Golf. You can switch 'Auto hold' off but I don't see a reason to. I very rarely used to apply my handbrake in traffic and even used to take my foot off the brake too, when on level ground. A bad habit that is obviously not great if you're rear-ended. The electronic brake takes the thought out of it....the minute you brake to a standstill, on pops the green light on the dash and you know that a) all brakes are applied, and b) your brake lights are showing to warn the less observant that the traffic ahead is at a standstill. If you open the door or take the key out of the ignition the green light changes to red to show that the parking brake is now applied.

I've only encountered 2 issues with the EB since getting the car:

When parking in a space (especially on the end of the row), I always used to ensure my wheels were just inside the parking space markings so that I wasn't taking up 2 spaces instead of 1. I'd do this by opening the door a crack and leaning out as I reversed to make sure I was right up to the boundary. You can't do this in the new Golf...the minute you open the door, on comes the parking brake which resolutely refuses to switch off until you shut the door. Cue lots of muttered swearing.

The other issue is that you forget that not every car has an EB so you either try and drive off without releasing it, or forget to apply it when parked!

With a new car I don't see how you'd have an issue with it. Of course, with all this new technology, when they do eventually fail it'll cost £££ to repair.

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - HandCart

>>>"and b) your brake lights are showing "


...and is the software clever enough, when the taillights are switched on, to switch the brake lights off after 60 seconds or does it leave them on permanently until the car moves again?

This is another serious pet hate of mine.

I was once in a queue on the M1 one night and the traffic had been utterly stationary for some minutes. In the end, when I got the opportunity, I had to switch lanes purely to rid myself of the retina-burning brake lights of the Jaguar XF ahead of me.
Arrghh!

Electronic Handbrakes - advice please. - Plinky

I have no idea. I'll find out. Also need to find out whether the brake lights come on when Adaptive Cruise Control is engaged. Going down a hill, with nothing in front of you, you can feel the car braking but I want to know whether the brake lights come on too.....can't bear being behind someone who is constantly tapping their brakes when just lifting your foot off the accelerator would suffice. Maddening!