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Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - Dom654

Hi all I need your help/advice,

On Monday just gone, I swapped my car (Audi) for a Vauxhall at a car dealership (not main dealership).

I test drove the Vauxhall, he test drove the Audi, everything was fine and agreed sorted all the paperwork and we part ways.

Yesterday ( I wasn’t home) mum said 2 guys turned up at home because they didn’t have my phone no. wanting to speak to me about my Audi and take the Vauxhall back, she took their no. and I called the guy to see what was up.

Basically he said, the recorded mileage on the checks the dealers do doesn’t match the odometer on the car. I didn’t know any of this when I bought the Audi privately (cash), all the paperwork looked ok and matched the cars mileage reading etc and it all appeared fine to me.

Audi odometer says 79k, VOSA records show 166k, so it appears to have been clocked before I bought it back in Oct 2014.

I was shocked to hear this and naturally had it checked myself and its right, the mileage on the car doesn’t tally with the history.

The guy now wants the Vauxhall back and for me to take the Audi back or he will take me to court for supplying false documents etc. I only gave him what was given to me when I bought the Audi.

He as a dealer and an “expert” of the trade should of done all the relevant checks before completing the transaction with me right? Me as a private individual am not expected to have the knowledge to be able to check a car properly according to law apparently I’m a “layman”.

Through his negligence he didn’t do the appropriate pre-sale checks expected as a dealer who should be an “expert” of the trade and 4 days later wants his car back because post-sale he’s then done the checks that should have been done pre-sale before even letting me near or even considering allowing me to part exchange my car for the Vauxhall (straight swap).

He’s signed the sale and agreed everything and let me walk away all fine on Monday. Where do I stand with this? I don’t know what to do.

If I fight it and don’t swap the cars back then he’s probably going to push the angle that I have clocked the car during my time of ownership and supplied false documents, I have no way of proving I didn’t clock the car apart from the MOT was granted in July 2014 at a reading of 68k miles, the VOSA/DVLA records shows 166k miles. I purchased the car in October 2014 (3 months after that MOT) and that’s when the registered keeper date changed on the records aswell, I have no service history during my time of having the car and its MOT was not due until July 2015.

Equally he has no way of proving I did clock it. From your experience and guidance what would you recommend I do? Where do I stand?

For the new car I’ve just spent £300 replacing tyres because they were classed as dangerous and £200’s worth of replacement brake pads and discs waiting to be fitted at hom again because they were dangerously low.

I have 3 options I think.

1. Swap back and then live with the Audi ( I still have the incorrect mileage issue) I don't have any details from who I bought it from it was a cash sale.

2. Fight it (if you think I should and have a chance)

3. Agree to swap back but only if I’m reimbursed for the parts I’ve had replaced on the Vauxhall (if he says no, then ill have to fight)

What’s your input on it? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - FP

"Me as a private individual am not expected to have the knowledge to be able to check a car properly..."

I'm not so sure. In fact, you demonstrate in your post that you are able to do so.

But I suspect the law may take the view that ignorance of an offence having been committed does not get you off the hook. Put another way, why should the person/organisation who has accepted your car pick up the tab on an issue that happened further up the line? The car was clearly not as represented.

I think the issue is not whether you clocked it or not, but simply that it was clocked by someone.

At the moment I'd say go for 1). As for 3), presumably you haven't fitted anything major in a few days; not worth fighting over.

I'd be interested to see what others make of this.

Edited by FP on 29/05/2015 at 18:29

Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - RobJP

I'd say (1) as well. You cannot PROVE that you did not know - and you could have could have checked MOT history, etc, and WOULD have known, and therefore you could be accused of acting fraudulently.

Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - 72 dudes

As above, give it back for a less stressful life.

By all means negotiate re the tyres, but why would you buy the Vauxhall with 4 worn tyres and dodgy brakes? Presumably this was allowed for in the price anyway.

Similarly, how can you not have the details of where/who you bought the Audi from, just because 'it's a cash sale'? Why did you not do the basic checks before buying it?

Something not right here.

But as FP and RobJP say, as far as the dealer is concerned you've part exchanged a clocked car, i.e. not as represented, so any paperwork you both signed becomes null and void, as the contract has been broken.

Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - focussed

The whole sad sorry story of an identical situation here.

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23...0

The dealer took the unfortunate owner to court - the dealer lost.

It might be a good idea to print this saga above out and show it to your dealer because it seems they are wasting their time (and yours).

Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - RobJP

The whole sad sorry story of an identical situation here.

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23...0

The dealer took the unfortunate owner to court - the dealer lost.

It might be a good idea to print this saga above out and show it to your dealer because it seems they are wasting their time (and yours).

A somewhat different situation, as in the case you quote the dealer took 7 months (!) to come back to the individual. Their 'due diligence' was not very diligent, and was more 'overdue' than 'due'

In this case, it is a matter of a (very) small number of days where the dealer realised the car was clocked. A very different situation.

Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - slkfanboy

The pistonheads case is differant in that the OP had taken reasonable steps to ensure that car mileage was correct.

The documents signed are normally to the best of your knowledge. I guess that would be in question if you mot cert has a big step in mileage.

I would be more worried about two guys coming round with the expectation of taking your car away.

The only basis they have is to demonstate a loss due to the mileage difference. So they sell the car and sue you for the loss.

I would would write them with your solution and ask them not to attend your property unless invited

Edited by slkfanboy on 01/06/2015 at 13:55

Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - pd

I'm sure a MOT issued in 2014 will show the previous 3 MOT mileages as well. What do they show?

It is an offence to knowingly misrepresent the mileage on a car regardless of whether you are a dealer or a private seller. If you presented the car as having correct mileage but a quick check of the MOT indicates it wasn't then the dealer can quite easily argue in all probablility you knew.

Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - focussed

I don't agree that the OP had not taken all necessary steps to verify the mileage-what does the average car buyer know of the history of a s/h car before he buys it apart from looking at the available paperwork?

Take the example of my own car - it was a pre reg dated the last day of December 2007, I bought it in march 2008 with 9 miles on the odo. How do I know it hadn't done 900 or 1900 miles and then had the odo reset? I don't, any more than any of the regular posters on here would know.

I suggest that the dealer that the OP swapped the car with is sore at having to book that deal at a loss and is looking to recover his loss, and is trying to put pressure on the OP to reverse the deal.

The key words are "knowingly misrepresent the mileage" takes a lot of proving that.

Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - RobJP

Ahh. But the thing is, these days, an MOT has the previous few MOT mileages logged on it. In your case, there would have been no documentation to ever show that the mileage had been higher, as it was only 3 months old when you purchased it.

Now, the OP does not (unless I've missed it) give the age of the Audi, but he does state that the (previous) mileage on it appears to be 166k. Probably slightly older than your case, a 3 month old car with 8 miles on the clock ...

The dealer took the documentation that the OP provided at face value. Three days later, they found out that the mileage appeared to have been altered - to a considerable extent. They (understandably) want to unwind the deal.

This isn't (like your case) a 3 month old car (which would have no records to suggest mileage being altered). It isn't (like the pistonheads case) 7 months later (which is unreasonably late on). It's the same week (Monday sale, Thursday the dealer wants their car back).

Audi A3 Sportback - HELP!!!? - slkfanboy

Ignorance is no definence under the law, so it's important that you took 'reasonable steps'. I aways do a HPI check for example and if the car is of MOT'able age review the service history with the last 3/4 mileages shown on the MOT certificate.

If the paperwork handed over shows 166K, I would suggest the OP has a problem and is liable unless he can demostrate otherwise.