Quite. I work with someone who has the wife from hell. Too lazy to get a job, too stupid to learn to drive, too stupid to do basic tasks, constantly on the phone, telling him to come home from work and do something for her. A total loony. The poor children. Social services think she is not fit to be a mother. He has to do a lot of work to teach the children to behave, but seeing parents shouting at each other does damage.

There are no bad children, but lots of very poor parents. Your children are a reflection of you,

I agree with almost all your comments, Concrete, though I'm sure there are some (perhaps not many) bad children. Experienced teachers can usually spot them in five minutes. Most of the problems will be down to nurture, but I'm sure there is nature in there too. Heredity will have some contribution.

Slightly different characteristic, but in following up family history on SWMBO's relatives it is interesting to find how carelessness in choosing the opposite sex repeats down the generations ....

Point taken Andrew, it is difficult to be prescriptive so generalisations abound. Sometimes of the very sweeping sort in this forum! I fully support teachers and their difficult role and I am sure they can spot a 'wrong un' in class. The same as I could on site when I was site manager. Some need different handling from others, but all should follow the rules of behaviour. I simply found when we went through the whole educational psychology gammut when our youngest was declared Dyslexic, that some parents were so pleased they had a label to hang around little Johnnies neck to excuse his behaviour, when a bit of discipline would have sufficed instead.

Regarding your last point; my late father was bit of a sage, especially on people, having been in the forces for 30 years he had seen it all. He used to urge us, his children, to observe closely the parents of any prospective serious girlfriend/boyfriend. Their behaviour could well be how your future paramour may turn out. Very good advice. I met some real 'nutters' when invited round for tea!!!!

Cheers Concrete

"... took a day off from her job because she 'had' to do something, and eventually got sacked. She does not understand why. Her whole family are like that i.e. as thick as they come."

Although such people are reluctant to be reflective, I'm not sure the above is an example of stupidity or lack of intelligence - more likely a case of being in some kind of parallel universe where the only thing that matters is yourself.

There really do seem to be people who believe the social (and maybe even legal) rules that you and I accept do not apply to them. It's always someone else's fault if things go wrong and concepts like ambition, deferred gratification, tenacity and sheer hard graft - and above all a sense of responsibility - do not figure at all.

I may be becoming a grumpy old man, but that' s my take on it. And I agree with a lot of the comments elsewhere in this thread.

Go on. I'll bite.

What exactly is the 'marshmallow test' ?

It's a part of a psychological/behavioural investigation into delayed gratification. It supposedly tests willpower, impulse control and the individual's handling of the experience of success/failure.

This where the old school system injected some common sense into the proceedings.

I am not looking back through rose tinted glasses, but I do recall a distinct pecking order at school and very little bullying. There were those to whom you gave respect, mainly because if you didn't they were capable of doing you harm, but if due respect was accorded they left you alone. These 'hardcases' also took care of any cowardly bullies who dared encroach into their sphere of physical toughness. The other leveller was also the school sports. Try your best and win, great. try your best and lose, no shame, you tried your best. Magnanimous in victory and gracious in defeat. I never laced up my boots in order to lose a game but never felt bereft if we did. All part of growing up.

Cheers Concrete

The behaviour of some kids in public nowadays borders on disturbed, as if they are taking some drug or pill that triggers their bizarre behaviour.

Don't get me wrong-I'm not some sort of health food nut-it's just that we established a clear link between our kids bad behaviour and fizzy drinks.

I agree with you focussed. We saw the link early on when the 'in laws' children came round to play. A day in our house without fizzy drinks, crisps and endless sweets made a distinct difference in their behaviour. The sister in law would collect them and marvel at how well they were behaving. No fizz, no manufactured juices etc etc, just water or tea and decent food, what a difference. I told her this but she just looked at me as if I was from Mars. What no treats she cried. How cruel. I pointed out that her idea of treats was a constant stream of rubbish, to such an extend her children would not their meals at home, but they ate them at our house. She was at a loss, but clearly did not make the link or any significant changes. She just thought we were the odd ones out. However it all came home to roost when it came time to achieve exam results. Her children bombed out while ours did very well, and we all started from a similar level playing field, except for diet. I notice now she treats her grandchidren very differently, insisting on fresh fruit for treats instead of the usual rubbish. Never too late.

Cheers Concrete

Along those lines Concrete we used to have a regular visitor who brought her little 6 year old lad with her, this boy never got his nose out of his gameboy and, because his mother didn't cook (seriously) ate nothing but junk...chips and fast food rubbish mainly.

By the second weekend with us he was stuffing man sized piles of real food, proper roast taters real meat and good fresh veg down his neck like a good un, followed by apple pie and custard etc, got him to ''help'' me wash the cars (mind you he got wetter than said cars) and do some general mucking about outside he was like a puppy that had discovered an extra tail, a different lad entirely.

Just goes to show what a little care and attention allied to common sense can achieve. Good post gordon.

Concrete

I am sure you are right, although my friends' children eat the healthiest diet imaginable (home grown veg in abundance, not fizzy pop) and still rush around as if demented. I think there is a certain amount of youthful energy in children, that needs to be burnt off. I am sure a poor diet makes them much worse. I know someone who eats junk food, and one of his kids is diabetic. The poor lad eats the junk food. Cooking is not so hard, as I am sure you know. Buying decent food is not so hard.