Why are a lot of buses now fitted with auto gearboxes?
Surely this only increases fuel consumption and hence pollution.
Ben
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Because they\'re used in town traffic all the time and forever changing gear.
They don\'t have to be clean, if they did the emission rules applicable to diesel cars could, and should, be applied.
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What are the emmission rules for new buses?. The DAF/Alexander double deckers and the new bendy ones in London are smoke free, only evidence of exhaust is the smell. Like a catlyzed car diesel only more so!!.
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Haven't they been auto and semi-auto since I were a nipper?
The original AEC and London B had crash gearboxes but reckon pre-selectors came in long long time ago. Atlanteans had semi-auto.
Surely it smooths the ride for the passenger, less abuse by drivers possible? Perhaps better fuel economy vs bad driver practices.
Then there is reducing driver workload, after all its a bit difficult to drive a bus, take fares, count change and change gears!
:-(
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From my experience, service bus drivers and clutches do not gel. Hence, a very short life expectancy for the clutch.
Modern buses do run very clean, having electronically controlled injection pump and gearbox, and can also equipped with catalytic converters. The only problem being down the line a few years, when intermmitent faults develop. Mind you, auto boxes are not so good at hill starts on steep gradients!
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One thing Ive noticed while having to get the bus where I live (top of steep hill into town) is that they c-r-a-w-l up the hill due to the 'box holding the thing in too high a gear.
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Quite correct FIF. The Trent buses operating when I was a kid were either AEC with crash boxes or the Daimler with pre-select gearbox.
On the Daimler the driver would select the gear and when ready to change simply dip the clutch.
The Daimlers were old even at that time so they must have been built pre-war.
AEC were still building lorries and buses up to about the sixties. And does anyone remember what the initials AEC stands for??. An autographed photo of Red Ken for the winner
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Then there is reducing driver workload, after all its a bit difficult to drive a bus, take fares, count change and change gears! :-(
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Can't we have conductors back so the driver can get on with driving and help congestion? How many times have you seen a bus blocking half the road unneccesariy as the driver is dealing with cash?
Ben
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I wouldn't have thought fuel comsuption was an issue. They leave the engines running all day long anyway. At least the do when they've parked up in Oxford for ½ hour or so waiting for the next lot of passengers to get on.
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I wouldn't have thought fuel comsuption was an issue. They leave the engines running all day long anyway. At least the do when they've parked up in Oxford for ½ hour or so waiting for the next lot of passengers to get on.
Sorry to do a Growler/Andy Bairsto etc etc but what they do in Sweden is IMHO a damn good idea.
At some places esp national park type sites and on the approach to some towns you get the signs, tomgangkorning forbjuden or a maximum time shown eg max 1 min. (I've missed out the silly characters deliberately in case Mr Pedant lurks)
Basically it means idling engines for longer than the specified time is not allowed, and most folks respect it. Nanny state I know but....
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AEC = Associated Equipment Company.
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In a previous incarnation I drove large red commercial vehicles which differed from most by way of the ladders and blue lights on top.
When I started they were manual Dennis's. They had crash boxes - ie. double-de-clutch every time.(You'd be amazed at the hours of pleasure to be had by crew members in the rear cab who could nudge the gear lever out of gear with a well placed boot with all the ensuing confusion by said driver - equally, with the same boot, they could make a change down seem remarkably obstuctive). On one occasion, during a gear change, I found myself holding on to a gear lever that was irretrievably disconnected from the box it was designed to serve - a slow return to the station ensued.
A neighbouring station had the luxury of a similar Dennis but with full synchromesh - Luxury!
The latest vehicles are now fully auto. They just have a small button box on the dash - totally foolproof.
How much easier to drive these latest ones are! A child of six could drive one - PAS, ABS brakes that actually work, Electric everything, Mirrors you can see out of, Diff. Limiter for over-run braking.....etc.
If modern buses are as easy as these then I can well see why they have them.
KB.
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Nice one Laurie. Its in the post.
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I've just found this thread by accident - sorry to bang on again about my job...
The reason that all new buses have auto gearboxes is thus:
As newer and newer buses get delivered, so the fleets of various companies become more and more modern, displacing the manual and semi-auto boxes of old. Therefore, companies see very little point in putting trainee drivers through a manual PCV test when an auto PCV test will do just as well. Which is why companies like Shearings and Wallace Arnold have stopped buying coaches with manual 'boxes. In ten or twenty years people like me with full manual 'box PCV licences are going to be the exception rather than the rule which doesn't spell good news for the preservation side of this industry...
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Meant to include this in the last post - sorry!
Re: fuel consumption. When new (back in, say 1982), a Leyland Atlantean with semi-auto transmission would do maybe 9 - 10 mpg. A brand new Volvo B7TL with auto transmission would struggle to do 6 - 7 mpg. Mind you, the Volvo will have a smaller engine.
Give me a manual or semi-auto any day. You've far more control over what's going on. With the Volvos I drive every day, you've three gear select buttons - neutral, reverse and drive. That's it. No hope of holding the thing in gear, or starting off in a lower gear in snow etc. Ludicrous if you ask me, but that's the price of progress!
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That is why auto gearboxes in cars are hated my journalists unless they have various auto modes, eg sport and snow, with tiptronic and all bells and whistles.
Is that why there seem to be more accidents in the papers involving busses and immovable objects like houses?
Ben
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Ben - partly, as you have little or no control. But I would imagine that you see more in paper *because* it's a bus that's ploughed into a shop, or house or whatever. Cars do it with alarming regularity so it's not really newsworthy but when a bus does it, then it's something out of the ordinary to give the new ghouls a treat! ;-)
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For me please? What is "do a Growler"?
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>>For me please? What is "do a Growler"?
There are a number of possibilities, however in the sense that it was used above it loosely translates to "behave in the same way as Growler".
Its quite a common phrase in English.
In this case it was referring to Ian and Growler's habit (and mine in the past) of telling stories about how it is done in country xxxxxx.
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>>For me please? What is "do a Growler"? In this case it was referring to Ian and Growler's habit (and mine in the past) of telling stories about how it is done in country xxxxxx.
Missing the expat life, are we? :)
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As it's February when you posted this, Dave, have you ever thought that the poor beggars driving these buses may be trying to keep warm? I don't know about the age of the vehicles in question, but the old sheds I have to drive become ice-boxes very quickly unless the engine is running.
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As it's February when you posted this, Dave, have you ever thought that the poor beggars driving these buses may be trying to keep warm?
Cold bus drivers? I'd make 'em turn off the engine and tell them to wear a coat ;o)
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Cheeky beggar! ;-)
Seriously, though, it is a matter of safety. I can remember driving an elderly Bristol VR in the depths of winter literally not being able to feel my feet as there was no cab heater. Even now, at my depot of ********** in Lancashire, we have 'F' reg (so not that old in the grand scheme of things) Leyland Olympians with no cab heaters fitted. And, as that's how they left the factory, our Depot Engineer refuses to retro-fit them.
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>>I can remember driving an elderly Bristol VR .....
Remember those replacing the West yorkshire Road Car Co's old Bristol Lodekka's on the school run c1970. The VR's had a clutchless change, the driver operated a little mini gearstick alongside the steering wheel.
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That's the fella! Semi-auto gearchange. And the finest damned way to do it. You can get smoother changes with one of these than you can with a manual and when it's set up right it's a pleasure to drive. Much satisfaction can be had from timing the gear changes correctly. Takes some mastering though...
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