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Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - oldtoffee
I'm hoping and planning to semi-retire in 3 to 4 years when I'll be 65. My existing company car will be traded in in 9 months time. I'll have the opportunity to buy my next company car after 3 years and this will be my retirement car to be used 1 day a week for work and the rest for visiting relatives and several drives down to Normandy and a couple to south of France each year. I currently do about 24k miles a year and that will reduce a bit to around 20k. I'll need a large estate for our large dog and all our clobber, something Mondeo sized or bigger is probably best. Because of the mileage and French derv prices it should be diesel with a decent bit of power and I'd much prefer an auto but I read here and other places of quite a few modern auto box horror stories so manual would be possible. Cruising motorways will make up 95% of its miles so comfort first and hopefully half decent economy. I'm thinking if I run it from new and service it properly and continue to do that I'd like to get it to 10 years and 200,000 miles without any big repairs. My budget will be around £27,500 for buying it outright on the company. That brings in quite a few cars listed at over £30k as I've found it straight forward getting a main dealer to match broker prices. So that suggests mid range C Class, A4, then bigger and probably mores suitable Mondeo, Passat, Octavia, Superb. I don't like the i40 or Ceed estate, looks and small engines. £10k off a V70 brings it almost within reach! I might consider Japanese but on here they get bit of a slagging off so I'd take some persuading. Could just hand it back at 3 years and buy a Logan MCV with 5 years warranty but that's not going to give me the long journey comfort. I know this is a bit premature but I shall be doing quite a bit of research over the coming months so any and all ideas much appreciated.
Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - Mike H

There are still torque converter autos available, which seem to be more or less trouble free as long as the fluid is changed regularly. Th Peugeot 308 for example is available as a 2.0 diesel with the TC auto, not sure whether the 508 is as well. Mazdas have TC autos, but you might want to avoid the diesel on those - the 2.0 petrol is reputed be frugal (there was a thread about it recently) and the estate might fit your bill.

There might be others, I've just happened to notice these because they fit the bill for my next car.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - Happy Blue!

In terms of mixing automatics and diesels, you want to avoid any VW group DSG gearbox. The Ford Powershift gearbox appears to be far more reliable and any torque converter gearbox should be fine.

The German makes offer far smaller cars for the price than the mid-market makes so I woud avoid the Mercs, Audis and BMWs if space is the most important feature. Frankly having driven an automatic Ford S-Max diesel for over four years with few problems (one replacement shock absorber) and more importantly with a great deal of driving enjoyment, I can see no reason not to buy a Mondeo, especially as the new model is meant to have an even better ride than the current model. You may even find that an S-Max, with its more upright driving position is more comfortable for longer journeys than a Mondeo.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - gordonbennet

C or E Class estate 220/250.

Find yourself a good MB specialist indy to maintain it for you, and slightly overmaintain whilst its still under warranty (probably main dealer servicing) befaore you slip it to the TLC of a good indy once out of warranty.

Judging by the private hire 220d's that my indy looks after (from new) expect over 400+k miles with very little actually going wrong, my indy had to sort a couple of injectors at just over 400k on one.

You can't have an MB with a manual, it just isn't right, that perfect autobox if serviced periodically should last forever.

Don't know about Japanese being unliked here, those of us that have had Toyotas have usually had very good cars, maker back up unbeatable should it go wrong.

Most petrol Japanse are decent but some of the Diesels are ticking time bombs.

Avensis replacement when it comes might be a good alternative, especially if they dump the electric parking brake, here's hoping, they didn't put it in new Auris so i have every hope.

Prius+ might be worth looking at (or Avensis Tourer Hybrid if it becomes an option next model, Toyotas hybrid system is proving itself over high mileages and long life.

Benz still good for long term if maintained well and cared for, forgetting the dire 10 or so years from 96.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - Avant

Looks like some good advice you've got above. If you want a diesel automatic, the C-class and the Mondeo sound like the best bets to me too.

The Mercedes will have more perceived quality, and might be in better shape after 10 years, but you'd need to check if it's big enough for you and whether you can put up with the noisy engine.

The new Mondeo sounds good from what I've read: sure to be big enough and may be cheaper to service. You should get more equipment for your £27,500 that you would on the C-class, but it won't hold its value as well (maybe that isn't a problem if you're going to keep it long-term).

I was in the same position last year, although I bought my own car. I'm happy with a manual so my Octavia vRS petrol manual estate suits me perfectly, and should do so long-term if I can't afford to replace it in a couple of years' time. I don't miss diesels: this one gave 42 mpg when i drove it across France this summer.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - gordonbennet

Hmm been thinking about what you said about not missing Diesels Avant, agree with you there.

Opting into a petrol could open up the alternatives, with a view to Oldtoffee getting it converted to LPG when he takes it over (unless the company would endorse such a thing), those long term ownership plans are the icing on the LPG cake.

Lots to think about and a certain amount of imagination, might be more expensive on BiK and VED at the moment, but who knows what dick turpin has planned for those given the recent anti Diesel propaganda.

German cars take particularly well to LPG, hard valve seats, but obviously tank siting is a problem so a sizeable spare wheel well would be needed and plans to use goo/toy pump kit in case of puncture on journeys and all that implies.

We run two LPG converted cars now, and we have no plans to come away from the fuel for the forseeable future, its suits us perfectly but not everyone's cup of tea.

Just a passing thought to throw in.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - S40 Man

I have a 08 plate Mondeo estate at 140k. Its a manual 2.0d and I think it drives great. Its massive inside, boor space would accommodate any dog easily. I got mine at 100k and it has not missed a beat for me. Not sure about auto but manual is good. HJ

gives it 5 stars ×××××.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - oldtoffee

Thanks all. (tried putting this in separate paragraphs didn't work too well, sorry)

Happy Blue (and S40 man) - I'm a Mondeo fan having had 2 and tests of the new one suggest comfort over driving experience which would suit me. I see far less issues over Powershift than VWs DSG so a Ford will be on the list. Seems to be anecdotal evidence of the 140 bhp diesle being good but the remapped 163 being a poor relative. The new Mondeo has 150 and higher outputs. I shall look deeper.

gb - a C Class will make the budget not sure an E Class will other than poverty spec. I do fancy owning a Merc over 10 years I just need to be happy that the current model has gained back the reliability points lost by previous recent series, seems it has. BTW the comment re Japanese was just alluding to their diesel models. An Avensis 1.8 petrol auto estate would work but I don't fancy one and my experience of petrol engines on long runs is that they like a drink. Avant - I had an Octavia vRS petrol, rated it highly and the new estate is bigger booted than the Mondeo and has that very good petrol engine. Not sure about the DSG over 10 years so a manual would have to be the choice. I like Skoda dealers and Skoda prices. LPG is out SWMBO will now only travel by Le Tunnel.

Edited by oldtoffee on 23/11/2014 at 22:36

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - Happy Blue!

If you are travelling to France a lot maybe a Peugeot 407 wagon?

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - Sulphur Man

I'll come into bat for the Japanese.

Toyota Avensis Tourer, 1.8 Valvematic, M-Drive auto

Excellent petrol engine, 40mpg is easily achievable. Smooth CVT auto which has none of the CVT over-revving traits. Lots of kit. Lots of space. Lots of warranty. Toyota's generally excellent dealer network. Great ride comfort.

There's also a 2.2 diesel auto, but it doesnt steer as sweetly as the petrol.

£15K will get you a nearly new one with over 4 years warranty left.

The petrol is one of the best used cars out there IMO.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - daveyK_UK

I'll come into bat for the Japanese.

Toyota Avensis Tourer, 1.8 Valvematic, M-Drive auto

Excellent petrol engine, 40mpg is easily achievable. Smooth CVT auto which has none of the CVT over-revving traits. Lots of kit. Lots of space. Lots of warranty. Toyota's generally excellent dealer network. Great ride comfort.

There's also a 2.2 diesel auto, but it doesnt steer as sweetly as the petrol.

£15K will get you a nearly new one with over 4 years warranty left.

The petrol is one of the best used cars out there IMO.

Surprisingly, the Dacia Logan MCV was very comfortable on a long journey.

The major downside to the Logan MCV was the 1.2 petrol engine which was fine on the 1st leg of the journey with 3 adults and no load, but on the return carrying around 300kg load, it affected performance up hills.

I ecpect the 1.5 diesel is far better as a load lugger

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - julian_greenwood

This is a very interesting and informative post especially with reference to happy Blues comments regarding the Volkswagen DSG gearbox.

I would be very interested to know why Happy Blue does not recommend the DSG gearbox particularly when mated to a diesel engine. You state the combination is unreliable and you go on further to say the ford equivalent is far superior in terms of reliability.

Please could you enlighten me further as this is totally opposite to my experience especially the ford automatic gearbox witch a colleague had in his C max which unfortunately failed at 4 years of age. Regrettably Ford was not able to repair it as parts were not available.

I believe Ford purchased the car from him at a considerable loss as he explained to me Ford were unable to repair the car as parts or a reconditioned gearbox were not available. Further investigation by him revealed the engine produced more torque than the rating of the gearbox. It was thus doomed to failure from the start.

So Happy blue please enlighten me are you in the trade, can you back your claims up please do not feel I am trying to get at you I am not I am just keen to come to an informed decision regarding my next car purchase as I am in the same boat as the original poster.

I am thinking of replacing my 12 year old automatic TDI golf it is all original and I have had no trouble whatsoever with it and only have ever replaced service items, it even has its original shock absorbers!

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - oldtoffee

>>> would be very interested to know why Happy Blue does not recommend the DSG gearbox particularly when mated to a diesel engine. You state the combination is unreliable and you go on further to say the ford equivalent is far superior in terms of reliability.

The DSG auto has taken VW many years to sort out reliability issiues. Check out any VW forums or Honest John or speak to a VW independent garage and there's loads of history on the failures, expensive doesn't get close. Of course VW sell a lot of cars so a big fault on a shared platform product will produce a load of experiences. Far less Ford Powershift problems reported. Nowadays there's lots of evidence that VW have thrown enough money at it and have sorted it but still a 6 speed DSG is far less favoured than a 7 speed DSG. So Happy Blue is right in what he says. I'm interested in 2 VW products Octavia and Passat but wouldn't trust the DSG to last 10 years, 200,000 miles, I'm not alone. This is why I will look at a Merc with excellent reputations for auto boxes and other marques with inherently more reliable torque converter or CVT autos. I didn't know Peugeot had TC autos so I've learnt something here already.

Edited by oldtoffee on 24/11/2014 at 21:45

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - Avant

"....still a 6 speed DSG is far less favoured than a 7 speed DSG."

Not entirely sure what you mean by this, Oldtoffee: as far as I know most of the problems, both with jerkiness and unreliability, have been with the dry-clutch DSG, which normally has 7 speeds (although the number of speeds isn't itself a factor). Most if not all 6-speed DSGs have a wet clutch which seems to be a lot more reliable and long-lasting

Edited by Avant on 24/11/2014 at 22:58

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - Alanovich

I didn't know Peugeot had TC autos so I've learnt something here already.

I believe the Peuget 508 1.6 HDi has an automated manual (EGC) gearbox, whilst the 2.0 HDi has a torque converter auto. I'd expect your needs would dictate the more powerful 2.0 in any case, but thought it was worth mentioning.

I think I'd like a 508 2.0 HDi auto estate. Very good value second hand. But as it's a belt cam engine I'd probably not buy one. 308 SW 2.0HDi is also TC auto I think.

Edited by Alanovich on 25/11/2014 at 09:58

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - gordonbennet

Please could you enlighten me further as this is totally opposite to my experience especially the ford automatic gearbox witch a colleague had in his C max which unfortunately failed at 4 years of age.

Is it possibly the CVT gearbox you are referring to, there has been a thread about this box, it's pitiful life expectancy, and the all but worthless parts back up.

The age of failure sounds about right for the box in question, conveniently out of warranty.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - bazza

Faced with this rather pleasant dilemma I would simply have to buy into a make with the best reputation for long term reliability, robustness and customer service. That, for me would mean a Japanese brand, Honda, Toyota, or Lexus. It would be a petrol, as diesel tech from ALL manufacturers is now very complex and unproven in the long run in terms of robustness and reliability. For me, it would also be a manual, -unless I could find a TC auto. Again, the complexity of automated twin clutch tech is a liability in the long run.

Something like a Honda CRV is likely to go the distance. As an outsider, a Kia Sorento or similar with the 7 year warranty might be worth considering. Although I like the C/E class, I simply can't believe it would be as reliable and trouble-free experience over 10 /12 years as a Japanese brand. Honda Accord estate? These things can go 200 to 300K with regular maintenance. But as above---I wouldn't go for the diesels.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - madf

Honda diesels in the CRV are generally very relaible. 200k miles easily..

I would not buy a Toyota 2.2 Diesel from 2006-2009. Well documented issues with HGs, etc.. and running out of extended 7 year warranty (engines extended only). Often went bang at 50k miles. Free engines from Toyota.

Anyone buying a Ford CVT is gamblling Ford has solved its engineering/ cynical attitude to them. They have form on the issue.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - Alanovich
Anyone buying a Ford CVT is gamblling Ford has solved its engineering/ cynical attitude to them. They have form on the issue.

Ford Powershift gearboxes are not CVT. They are automated manuals.

Any considered - Best car to buy at 3 years old - oldtoffee

Thanks everyone.

bazza - Kia Sorrento - we used to have a Santa Fe, nearly the same car, same 2.2 diesel, TC auto, great value. I used to get 32 mpg on a run and it is fairly noisy at cruising speeds and very firm riding, too much so for my future needs. I know what you mean about complexity of modern diesels I was hoping for an inspired shout on something new'ish that could maybe rack up the miles painlessly like the old Merc diesels and the VAG 1.9 PDs did for so many taxis.

Alanovich - thanks for clearing that up, I'll revisit the 2.0 HDi 308.

Avant - I drive a Tiguan TDi DSG and did some "research" before choosing it and there was more than a few catastrophic failures recorded on forums of the 6 speed. I wasn't thorough enough to spot if these were dry or wet clutch so thanks for pointing this out. I think the DSG on my Tiguan works brilliantly but everybody says don't trust it long term so I won't! Maybe an Octavia vRS petrol manual like yours should get on the list?

madf - I wouldn't go for a Japanese diesel having read here and elsewhere about Honda, Toyota and Mazda issues. But I would choose a Japanese petrol auto in a heartbeat if I was doing half the miles and not trundling up and down France with derv at under £1 a litre. I don't know what mpg an Accord Tourer petrol auto would give sitting most of the day at 80 mph and what extra that might cost me over 10 years, probably the same or less than a new semi auto box or a blown turbo? The Japanese petrol seed is planted, it probably always was tbh.

Edited by oldtoffee on 25/11/2014 at 15:09