Parking scam in High Wycombe?

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 09:46
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - fleeble

Hi

I packed in the Eden shopping centre in High Wycombe on the weekend only to come back to my car and find a 60 quid fine on the window from UK Parking Control because apparently I was "not parked correctly within the markings of thr space". These markings were yellow lines about 9 inches thick on either side and I was about 1 inch over the left one. My car would have barely fitted between them anyway plus the usual legal "contract" notice was buried away down on a wall.

My question is - should I just pay the 60 quid (and never visit again) or should I - as honest john has recommened in the past - pay a nominal sum and dare them to take me to court in the hope they think its not worth the hassle? What I really don't want is debt collectors turning up at my door.

Any advice much appreciated.

B.

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 10:07
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - gordonbennet

Find Pepipoo forum and read carefully there, they deal with this type of thing all the time, there's a sequence of events/appeals etc to follow to the letter.

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 11:38
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - Bromptonaut

Find Pepipoo forum and read carefully there, they deal with this type of thing all the time, there's a sequence of events/appeals etc to follow to the letter.

+1

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 12:09
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - daveyjp

If necessary you take them all the way to an appeal you won't lose, which costs them £27 plus VAT and vow never to go to the shopping centre again - and let the centre manager know this and that you will be telling family to do the same.

Just like clamping this situation with private companies thinking they can slap any old ticket on any car and expect to get paid is getting completely out of hand.

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 15:47
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - galileo

"not parked correctly within the markings of thr space". These markings were yellow lines about 9 inches thick on either side and I was about 1 inch over the left one. My car would have barely fitted between them anyway

Was that 1 inch onto the line or 1 inch over the far side of the line? If the parking spaces are narrow, as you say, 1 inch into the next space would make it difficult to use it. In our local multi-storey car park unless people take the trouble to centralise between the lines, getting in and out of the car entails contortions to avoid door to door contact.

If there were plenty of spaces, then it is hard to justify a ticket at all, even if full £60 seems excessive.

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Tue 11 Nov 2014 10:21
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - fleeble

"not parked correctly within the markings of thr space". These markings were yellow lines about 9 inches thick on either side and I was about 1 inch over the left one. My car would have barely fitted between them anyway

Was that 1 inch onto the line or 1 inch over the far side of the line? If the parking spaces are narrow, as you say, 1 inch into the next space would make it difficult to use it. In our local multi-storey car park unless people take the trouble to centralise between the lines, getting in and out of the car entails contortions to avoid door to door contact.

If there were plenty of spaces, then it is hard to justify a ticket at all, even if full £60 seems excessive.

1 inch into a 9 inch thick line. Plus I had to park slightly to one side since we had a baby in the back and if I hadn't we wouldn't have been able to get her out as there wouldn't hav e been enough space.

I think I'll just not pay the ticket and see what happens because to me there seems to be no justification whatsoever for this ticket. Plus I wasn't the only one who got done - about half the cars in the same row also had tickets. I think the attendent just went on a ticketing spree. I certainly won't be visiting that shopping centre again either.

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 17:04
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - Andrew-T

My car would have barely fitted between them anyway plus the usual legal "contract" notice was buried away down on a wall.

Was this because the spaces were too small, or (perish the thought) your vehicle was too wide? Maybe use a smaller car next time. I know modern cars suffer from obesity - that is one of their disadvantages.

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 19:22
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - focussed

Standard car parking bays for right angled parking in the UK should be a minmum of 2.5 metres wide. (8.2 feet). If space is a problem an absolute minimum of 2.4 metres is acceptable (7.8 feet)

www.pkc.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=10565&p=0

Many parking spaces are smaller than this- if the spaces where you parked and got a ticket are narrower-complain and ask them why they are narrower.

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 20:34
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - RT

Standard car parking bays for right angled parking in the UK should be a minmum of 2.5 metres wide. (8.2 feet). If space is a problem an absolute minimum of 2.4 metres is acceptable (7.8 feet)

www.pkc.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=10565&p=0

Many parking spaces are smaller than this- if the spaces where you parked and got a ticket are narrower-complain and ask them why they are narrower.

The 2.5m is an ideal, not a standard - 2.4m is typical - 1.8m is the minimum.

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Tue 11 Nov 2014 10:23
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - fleeble

My car would have barely fitted between them anyway plus the usual legal "contract" notice was buried away down on a wall.

Was this because the spaces were too small, or (perish the thought) your vehicle was too wide? Maybe use a smaller car next time. I know modern cars suffer from obesity - that is one of their disadvantages.

Thanks for the advice there. I'll just pop down to a dealership and buy a new car shall I?

FYI I drive a normal saloon car, not some oversized 4x4.

Idiot.

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Tue 11 Nov 2014 12:37
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - alan1302

My car would have barely fitted between them anyway plus the usual legal "contract" notice was buried away down on a wall.

Was this because the spaces were too small, or (perish the thought) your vehicle was too wide? Maybe use a smaller car next time. I know modern cars suffer from obesity - that is one of their disadvantages.

Thanks for the advice there. I'll just pop down to a dealership and buy a new car shall I?

FYI I drive a normal saloon car, not some oversized 4x4.

Idiot.

Says the one that can't park properly

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Wed 12 Nov 2014 10:31
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - fleeble

My car would have barely fitted between them anyway plus the usual legal "contract" notice was buried away down on a wall.

Was this because the spaces were too small, or (perish the thought) your vehicle was too wide? Maybe use a smaller car next time. I know modern cars suffer from obesity - that is one of their disadvantages.

Thanks for the advice there. I'll just pop down to a dealership and buy a new car shall I?

FYI I drive a normal saloon car, not some oversized 4x4.

Idiot.

Says the one that can't park properly

Just FYI pal - I've got an HGV1 license. I can happily reverse park a 15 metre trailer into a bay. Can you? An itty bitty car isn't a problem. The problem is people with attitudes like you who think parking a few inches offset in an unreasonably narrow space with unreasonably wide yellow lines each side so I can get my child out of the car justifies a 60 pound ticket for a car park that is chargable anyway.

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Wed 12 Nov 2014 11:03
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - FP

With respect, the issue isn't whether the OP can or cannot park properly, but whether he actually did.

Clearly, he did not follow the regulations as they apply to this car park.

Whether a minor infringement warrants a £60 charge is a separate matter. I suggest the OP takes measurements of the width of the parking space, compares them with the information given above and then visits www.pepipoo.com to see what they have to say.

He really needs to know whether, if he defies the parking company and they do take him to court, such a minor infringement would be taken as a valid reason for a demand for £60 (or more, as it may go up over time). My guess is that, if it was seen as making it difficult for another car to park alongside, it might be. If it was me I'd defy them if I thought I had a chance.

And bailiffs do not turn up out of the blue. The OP would have had to have lost his case first - he would know what he needed to pay. Bailiffs turn up only when someone refuses to pay up after a conviction, and on the instructions of a court.

P.S. I do wish people would stop jumping down each other's throats for trivial reasons. And before someone says, "But he started it", can I remind you of how childish that will look?

Edited by FP on 12/11/2014 at 11:06

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Wed 12 Nov 2014 18:23
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - Avant

Hear, hear to FP's last para (and the rest of the post too, for that matter).

In my working life I often gave courses on effective writing, and the first and last thing I always said was 'Think of the reader'. If anyone feels like being rude or sarcastic, they should pause to think what it would be like to be on the receiving end.

Sometimes (not necessarily in this thread) it's necessary to confirm that an original poster is in the wrong, and to do so plainly. But even that can be done in a spirit of helpfulness.

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Fri 14 Nov 2014 16:30
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - fleeble

"Clearly, he did not follow the regulations as they apply to this car park."

I accept I didn't follow the regulations, but unsurprisingly in this case the notice was just off the ground and obscured by another vehicle and it took me a good few minutes to find it. If there had been a large notice in a prominent position saying Do Not Park On the Boundary LInes or you'll get a 60 quid fine then obviously I wouldn't have. But you don't expect this sort of thing in a shopping centre car park that isn't exactly cheap in the first place.

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Fri 14 Nov 2014 18:45
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - daveyjp
Have you read up yet on what you need to do to get this cancelled?

Even if the sign had been in front of your face when you parked the £60 charge is still unreasonable.

Edited by daveyjp on 14/11/2014 at 18:46

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Fri 14 Nov 2014 18:57
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - FP

The clarity and prominence of the signage are points that may well be discussed should the case ever come to court, as it theoretically forms the basis of the supposed contract between the parking company and the driver: the less effectively the regulations are displayed, the more likely the parking company will lose their case.

(If the OP decides to challenge the charge, and the case does come to court, he might be well advised to bring photos of the signs, showing their positioning.)

As Daveyjp points out, the other crucial point in such a discussion is whether the amount demanded is reasonable and fairly reflects the losses incurred by the parking company as a result of a driver failing to follow regulations. (It's £60 now, but presumably it goes up after a while unless payment is received promptly.)

Edited by FP on 14/11/2014 at 19:01

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Sat 15 Nov 2014 10:48
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - Avant

If you Google Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking you'll find that's a leading case where Lord Denning (one of my heroes) pronounced effectively in favour of people who haven't had the terms of a contract adequately brought to their attention.

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Sat 15 Nov 2014 22:15
Parking scam in High Wycombe? - Bromptonaut

If you Google Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking you'll find that's a leading case where Lord Denning (one of my heroes) pronounced effectively in favour of people who haven't had the terms of a contract adequately brought to their attention.

He could be heroic in giving just and maverick deisions. His decision in a case called Saunders v Malby (VO) where a ratepayer sought to redefine the effect of the landlord's repairing covenant as it effected the rates (ie local government property tax) was epic. Th more so because Mr Saunders was a vagrant who didn't turn up for his appeal.

OTOH his comments dismissing the appeals of the Birminham 6 displayed a lamentable ignorance of the reality of 1970's criminal justice.

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