Don't tell 'em Pike.
If it really works, say nowt and get it patented.
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Thank you for your sound advice 'gordonbennet' .:-)
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What's the simple method?
That's an easy one - you reduce the size of your wheels so as to reduce the circumference by 5%. That way, the car's electronics thinks you have gone 5% further than you really have.
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Magnets on the fuel line?....snake oil in the fuel tank?....your wasting everones times with your pathetic claims.So your claiming to be able to do something that improves fuel economy which multi million pound companies haven't thought of it already?
It doesn't involve hydrogen fuel cells that run on water are you?
Do you think we all came down with the last rain shower?
Go away and annoy someone else.
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Magnets on the fuel line?....snake oil in the fuel tank?....your wasting everones times with your pathetic claims.So your claiming to be able to do something that improves fuel economy which multi million pound companies haven't thought of it already?
It doesn't involve hydrogen fuel cells that run on water are you?
Do you think we all came down with the last rain shower?
Go away and annoy someone else.
Actually Graham, my claims are no worse than the car makers who happily publish the official euro driving cycle figures for comparative purposes, when in reality very few drivers ever get the opportunity to reproduce the gentle, straight line, gradient free conditions of the test lab.
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Magnets on the fuel line?....snake oil in the fuel tank?....your wasting everones times with your pathetic claims.So your claiming to be able to do something that improves fuel economy which multi million pound companies haven't thought of it already?
It doesn't involve hydrogen fuel cells that run on water are you?
Do you think we all came down with the last rain shower?
Go away and annoy someone else.
Actually Graham, my claims are no worse than the car makers who happily publish the official euro driving cycle figures for comparative purposes, when in reality very few drivers ever get the opportunity to reproduce the gentle, straight line, gradient free conditions of the test lab.
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Actually Graham, my claims are no worse than the car makers who happily publish the official euro driving cycle figures for comparative purposes, when in reality very few drivers ever get the opportunity to reproduce the gentle, straight line, gradient free conditions of the test lab.
It keeps being repeated on here ad nauseum, but maybe you've been living on the moon:
The official euro test figures are the only economy figures manufacturers are allowed to publish by law. Many manufacturers now include a caveat that the figures are only for comparitive purposes and do not represent real driving conditions (listen to the new radio ad for the Ducato van as an example)
I doubt they are entirely happy about this (otherwise, why the caveats).
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Actually Graham, my claims are no worse than the car makers who happily publish the official euro driving cycle figures for comparative purposes, when in reality very few drivers ever get the opportunity to reproduce the gentle, straight line, gradient free conditions of the test lab.
Except those tests are all scientifically done and can be compared to each other. The same test is done on each car.
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What's the simple method?
Driving slower!
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What's the simple method?
Driving slower!
Firstly, Alan, make sure that your tyres are at the recommended pressure and get your tracking checked and if necessary, adjusted by a properly equipped auto centre.
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Nitrogen in your tyres. Oxygen molecule permeation through the tyre membrane is higher than nitrogen (smaller molecule). Tyres lose pressure even with no leaks through this process. The nitrogen PSA unit also dries the gas entering the tyre avoiding moisture in the tyre which again is affecting pressure changes in the tyres as they heat up and cool down. All our garage vehicles run on nitrogen and we reckon annual savings on extended tyre life, and better fuel economy of £100-150 year /10000 miles driven. Some of our cusotmers even comment that there cars appear to run quieter through less tyre noise. (I'm not sure if thats true or not but if the customer is happy !!)
I was skeptical when we purchased the unit 4 years ago but ral world driving has proved its worth
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Nitrogen in your tyres. Oxygen molecule permeation through the tyre membrane is higher than nitrogen (smaller molecule). Tyres lose pressure even with no leaks through this process. The nitrogen PSA unit also dries the gas entering the tyre avoiding moisture in the tyre which again is affecting pressure changes in the tyres as they heat up and cool down. All our garage vehicles run on nitrogen and we reckon annual savings on extended tyre life, and better fuel economy of £100-150 year /10000 miles driven. Some of our cusotmers even comment that there cars appear to run quieter through less tyre noise. (I'm not sure if thats true or not but if the customer is happy !!)
I was skeptical when we purchased the unit 4 years ago but ral world driving has proved its worth
Wow, that is really impressive - there is no substitute for testing any such improvements on a whole fleet of vehicles. Well done YG2007 !
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Nitrogen in your tyres. All our garage vehicles run on nitrogen and we reckon annual savings on extended tyre life, and better fuel economy of £100-150 year /10000 miles driven. Some of our cusotmers even comment that there cars appear to run quieter through less tyre noise. (I'm not sure if thats true or not but if the customer is happy !!)
I was skeptical when we purchased the unit 4 years ago but ral world driving has proved its worth
Wow, that is really impressive - there is no substitute for testing any such improvements on a whole fleet of vehicles. Well done YG2007 !
Male cow faeces. powertank.com/truth.or.hype/
Try this link [sorry, can't do it in blue]
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Ah - it's appeared in blue!
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Nitrogen in your tyres. All our garage vehicles run on nitrogen and we reckon annual savings on extended tyre life, and better fuel economy of £100-150 year /10000 miles driven. Some of our cusotmers even comment that there cars appear to run quieter through less tyre noise. (I'm not sure if thats true or not but if the customer is happy !!)
I was skeptical when we purchased the unit 4 years ago but ral world driving has proved its worth
Wow, that is really impressive - there is no substitute for testing any such improvements on a whole fleet of vehicles. Well done YG2007 !
Male cow faeces. powertank.com/truth.or.hype/
Try this link [sorry, can't do it in blue]
Thanks for the link John F - it looks like a very thorough analysis and a practical investigation and would appear to show no benefits from filling tyres with Nitrogen instead of air - so how are the results that YG2007 explained - perhaps YG2007 can tell us ?
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Oxygen molecule permeation through the tyre membrane is higher than nitrogen (smaller molecule).
Oh yeah. What are the precise dimensions of O2 and N2 ?
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Are Nitrogen Molecules Really Larger Than Oxygen Molecules? The correct answer, with respect to “permeation”, is yes.
www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf
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www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf
Just found this article myself. But it doesn't suggest that filling with 100% nitrogen will make much difference in an intact tyre. Plenty of tyres filled with air hold pressure for weeks or even months, which may be why some drivers don't bother to check very often. Most pressure loss comes from imperfect bead contact or leaky valves.
There may be a chemical reason to exclude oxygen from tyres, to prevent gradual oxidation when the tyre warms up on a long drive.
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What's the simple method?
Driving slower!
Firstly, Alan, make sure that your tyres are at the recommended pressure and get your tracking checked and if necessary, adjusted by a properly equipped auto centre.
That's already been done.
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One way to improve economy for most cars would be to fit a tailor-made smooth under-tray, made out of a lightweight material, that streamlines the underside of the car, making it more aerodynamic. Of course there would have to be areas that couldn't be completely enclosed, like the exhaust system, the suspension and the underside of the engine.,
Also, although it's not considered aesthetically pleasing these days, faired-in rear wheels and / or fitting smooth wheel trims would probably reduce wind resistance at speed.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 19/09/2014 at 13:59
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theballsofwrath.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/ant...g
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A cheap way to improve fuel economy?
don't drive uphill or accelerate hard with a cold engine.
Check your tyre pressures each week and put them at recommended +3psi.. (see Prius forums)
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Over the years I've seen all kinds of weird and wonderful devices that are supposed to give extra MPG. I doubt if any of them work.
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The idea of nitrogen in the tyres instead of air is so you dont need to check your tyre pressures,(but I suspect you already knew that) ;)
As for quieter tyres with it in I doubt very much,getting more mpg is easy,change driving style,
as Wackyracer said, I`ve seen a few devices fitted but none work,one being the Magnet on fuel line, it used to break the pipe so you lost more fuel than you could ever save
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The idea of nitrogen in the tyres instead of air is so you dont need to check your tyre pressures,(but I suspect you already knew that) ;)
That is complete nonsense. Nitrogen will not stop you getting a puncture or slow puncture thus you still check your pressures as you would normally. Nitrogen is supposedly less likely to pass through the rubber. But since common air is approx 80% nitrogen its only a small difference and unless you ensured there was a vacuem inside the tyre before inflating with Nitrogen you would never get a 100% Nitrogen fill.
As for a 10% improvement in fuel economy earlier this year I discovered a free way to achive this. We go to Scotland twice a year, always the same route (430 miles) and it normally takes the same time within 1/2 hour. Over the trip we do about 1200 miles and the mpg always works out at approx 55 mpg. After our May trip I did the calculation and it worked out at 60 mpg, a 10% improvement.
Was I delighted, suppose I was but there was a simple explanation. On both the outbound and inbound trips we had a following wind.
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The idea of nitrogen in the tyres instead of air is so you dont need to check your tyre pressures,(but I suspect you already knew that) ;)
That is complete nonsense. Nitrogen will not stop you getting a puncture or slow puncture thus you still check your pressures as you would normally. Nitrogen is supposedly less likely to pass through the rubber. But since common air is approx 80% nitrogen its only a small difference and unless you ensured there was a vacuem inside the tyre before inflating with Nitrogen you would never get a 100% Nitrogen fill.
As for a 10% improvement in fuel economy earlier this year I discovered a free way to achive this. We go to Scotland twice a year, always the same route (430 miles) and it normally takes the same time within 1/2 hour. Over the trip we do about 1200 miles and the mpg always works out at approx 55 mpg. After our May trip I did the calculation and it worked out at 60 mpg, a 10% improvement.
Was I delighted, suppose I was but there was a simple explanation. On both the outbound and inbound trips we had a following wind.
I didnt say it was true,I just said the idea was to stop you needing to check your pressures,neither did i say it stops you getting a puncture.
It always helps having the wind behind you,if its in the right direction that is
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As the website (debunking the Nitrogen myths) says, the main reason why Nitrogen is used in some vehicle tyres (planes, the Space Shuttle and, of course, racing cars) is because they then contain no Oxygen, so are less of a fire risk in the event of a crash etc.
Having the tyres at the correct pressure makes a reasonable difference, as well as to the life of the tyres (given how expensive they are nowadays as most of us have low-profile tyres - replacing them prematurely due to excessive wear because of over/under inflation [under is worst as it can cause blow-outs]) will help reduce fuel consumption, as will not carrying heavy items needlessly (including roof racks/box which probably add 20%+ to the air resistance).
I have found that the following works for me (I achieve an average of 41-42 mpg on my Mazda3 [combined mpg should be about 38 on the official figures]):
- I find (as it appear the F1 drivers do now as well) that slowing down earlier when coming up to junctions using engine breaking (i.e. lifting off early rather than braking from 25-50m later) and not actually stopping at junctions (unless directed/need to do so) helps. The brakes will use engine power (fuel), whereas the engine braking does not (hence why HJ says you shouldn't coast [and for safety] going downhill by either taking the car out of gear [it then uses fuel to keep ticking over and to provide electrical power, as gravity is not helping keep the wheels and engine turning over) or even turning the engine off (dangerous - the steering lock could engage). Staying in 2nd gear by keeping at a few mph as you turn at a junction will save fuel.
- Anticiptation of taking action - e.g. the above (lifting off/slighting slowing so you can reach the junction [especially on dual carriageways/motorways where you can see a long way ahead] when its clear) or chosing the right time to overtake on dual carriageways/motorways so you don't need to brake (too close to the slower-moving vehicle ahead you will be overtaking) then floor it to avoid other fast-moving vehicles. I also try where I can to overtake on dual carriageways/motorways on right-hand bends so I have to travel less distance/fast to overtake (see lane draws on athletics tracks for why).
- Use open windows to rapidly cool you car down up to about 40mph - this has been proven to save fuel over using A/C as the extra fuel used by the engine to overcome the extra wind resistance is less than it uses to power the A/C. As a mechanical engineer working on A/C and ventilation system design on a daily basis, I would concur that having a large amount of air does rapidly cool areas heated to above the outside ambient temperature by the sun.
- Having a light right foot generally - not slow (labouring in higher gears uses more fuel and can be dangerous when you need to speed up quickly [anticipation again]), but using the correct gears and not thrashing the car. Its also amazing what planning your journey and leaving enough time (including in case of hold-ups) to reach your destination helps - no need to rush at 80mph down the motorway to that important meeting (easier said than done these days when we're expected to rush everything).
Edited by Engineer Andy on 21/09/2014 at 13:50
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The original poster claims to have found a method to improve MPG over the stated manufacturer's numbers - which we all know are not real world.
He refuses to say hwat he has done.
Why are we discussing this? It's obviously and balatantly rubbish... and he obviously has no idea of what he is comparing against.. If he was even semi competent , he would quote some facts. he has not so is clerarly not worth engaging with.
Another poster claiming a miracle but unwilling to disclose how ==== wwaste of space.
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I would not call it a waste,its always interesting to hear how some drivers try to cut the amount of fuel they use but whether they work or not is another matter
in and around London it is harder to reduce fuel consumption, if not impossible,and as no ideas have yet been proved to work, apart from going electric I doubt it will improve
I read Tesla are working on a 500 mile battery and have partnered with IIRC Panasonic in building a factory to reduce cost of making Lithium Ion Batteries,which at the moment is the electric cars killer ie cost of batteries
Apparently using Graphene with lithium Ion makes a far better car battery
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@ Engineer Andy.
I am not disputing your suggestions for improving mpg but simply comparing your mpg favourably with the claimed combined figure is largely meaningless. I also have a petrol Mazda 3 for which the claimed combined figure is 41.5 mpg. My manually calculated consumption over 20,000 miles is 33.0 mpg (the computer says 34.0).
Does this mean I drive like a maniac? Of course not, because a major factor in economy is something you omitted to mention - the type of journey you normally make. Most of mine are relatively short in traffic, hence the poor mpg. If I did a daily 40 mile commute at 50mph along straight, flat country roads the mpg would improve enomously without any change to my driving style, use of aircon etc.
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The OP's 10% improvement over 3 years in a new car is almost certainly due to running in of the new engine. This is the least I would expect, as new designs are built extremely tight to ensure they last the warranty period without anyone looking under the bonnet.
If the OP's method/invention involves interfering or modifing the fueling in any way, then it is technically illegal and would almost certainly increase pollutant levels.
Without any disclosure of real information or documentation this is yet another "car runs on seawater" story, not worthy of further discussion.
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The biggest improvements in fuel economy come after adjustment of the nut behind the wheel.
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Am I right in thinking that the gist of the OP is, "I've invented something really really good, but I'm not saying what it is", which is like the kid in the playground saying "I know something you don't know"?
It's a shame, maybe he's not right "upstairs".
I've got next week's lottery numbers, if anyone would like to buy them?
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bananastand.
Is you real name boris batchelor?
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bananastand.
Is you real name boris batchelor?
At present, his phone number is at the edge of my memory....
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His name was Horace, not Boris, and he lived in Keynsham, spelt K,e,y......
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His name was Horace, not Boris, and he lived in Keynsham, spelt K E Y N S H A M, Bristol.....
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His name was Horace, not Boris, and he lived in Keynsham, spelt K E Y N S H A M, Bristol.....
He died nearly forty years ago, just wondered if a son had taken over, if not, perhaps an opportunity for someone?
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Boyhood memories, listening to Radio Luxembourg on an ex RAF R1155 using headphones that weighed a ton. The fade, oh the fade!
Sorry...
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Thanks for the prompt.
(before my time of course:-)
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Ha ha. My real first name is Spencer. Bananastand comes from a scene in the Robert Redford film "The Hot Rock".
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