Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - mss1tw

I had a very strange occurance today. I was climbing a hill on the M25 when my Berlingo started getting slower and slower. I was down to 40mph and had to pull over and let it cool off. (I've mentioned before it gets hot really easily).

There was also a strange sound/sensation. A low frequency, not a rumble as such but something noticeable.

Anyway I thought I'd check the wheels for temperature and the front nearside/left wheel was noticeably hotter than the right/offside.

So, the brakes must have been sticking at speed, but it is easy enough to push round 'by hand', even full of all my tools.

I took it into a mechanic near the job I was working, and he said that disc was blued that side, slightly less the other and that it could be brake hose or pads not seated properly.

What I don't understand is why this only happened (Obviously, anyway) just the once, and if it would be related to the running hot problem. normally it just gets hot going up hill or over 60mph, but it will do it! Today it really felt like the engine was about to seize up, or spit bottom end all over the road! Oil and coolant are fine, btw.

Is there any way a braking system could do this only at speed? I know they work on a vacuum pump system but that's about it.

Appreciate any replies!

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - Peter.N.

Many years ago you could get this effect if the rubbers had swollen in the master cylinder and blocked off the return hole, as the brakes warmed up and the fluid expanded it couldn't get back to the cylinder so the pressure increased and put the brakes on.

The 1.9d is a very low power engine so you have to thrash it to get it to go, so it does get hot.

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - mss1tw

That's interesting Peter thank you - do you know if the master cylinder is rebuildable on these? I have done it with motorbike master cylinders and calipers but have never touched car braking systems.

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - mss1tw

Just to update in case anyone else has this problem

I booked it in at a local garage (Peter Cooper car repairs in Byfleet) and they have:

  • Removed brake pads, cleaned housings, and checked caliper sliders
  • Re-fitted with Ceratec brake pad contact lubricant
  • Adjusted the back of brake servo adjuster half a turn to ensure there is free play

It seems to be fine now!

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - Bromptonaut

Has sorting brakes cured the run hot isue?

Find assertion that it's due to 1.9D needing 'thrashing'. odd. I have same model and it runs at 75-90 degrees pretty much whatever. Temp guage might just climb above horizontal (90) in sudden heavy traffic but only time it's got over 100 was climbing Mt Ventoux in mid August, 30+ degrees in shade, with 5 passengers.

My 'take' is it has a cooling system capable of supporting an HDi and is little troubled with a non turbo 75HP.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 18/09/2014 at 22:27

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - mss1tw

Has sorting brakes cured the run hot isue?

Find assertion that it's due to 1.9D needing 'thrashing'. odd. I have same model and it runs at 75-90 degrees pretty much whatever. Temp guage might just climb above horizontal (90) in sudden heavy traffic but only time it's got over 100 was climbing Mt Ventoux in mid August, 30+ degrees in shade, with 5 passengers.

My 'take' is it has a cooling system capable of supporting an HDi and is little troubled with a non turbo 75HP.

Sadly not - mine used to run exactly as you describe, Bromp, but for whatever reason gets hot very easily now. Not the head or anything like that. It had a new radiator when the problem started but I've checked the dimensions, checked it for cold spots, flow, etc so I think that's more coincidental. I believe it's a Nissens part and they get fairly good reviews online.

I'm going to look into getting an oil temp gauge as they are only cheap and the fact it's fine in traffic, and at about 60mph is odd. The coolant temp only tells half the story.

Edit: Obviously it gets hot in traffic jams, but doesn't overheat and the fan cycles on and off as you'd expect. If I floor it on the motorway it will just get hotter and hotter. I haven't dared see just how far but I've had it over 100C indicated

Edited by mss1tw on 18/09/2014 at 23:02

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - dieselnut

It sounds like there is poor circulation in the cooling system.

Youv'e had a new rad, so would suspect either the pump has a broken impeller or the thermostat isn't opening fully.

Does the heater work well. If so, probably not the pump.

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - mss1tw

If only, DN! I had a new timing belt and water pump fitted last month (three years early) as I was convinced the water pump had failed as you described. the old one was fine and it's had three or four thermostats at various points and been bled by loads of different people including myself!

I wwonder if the oil cooler is blocked which is why it only happens when the engine is under a more significant load.

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - mss1tw

Also the problem has just occurred again but it made it to fleet and halfway back this time. Such a thump/vibration through the steering I thought it had a slow puncture.

Have asked if they can back the adjustment screw off some more as it's better than it was. They fitted me in on a Friday afternoon, can't ask for more than that

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - Bolt

I suspect this is a daft question but are all cooling system hoses ok, I used to drive a nissan urvan diesel that kept doing the same thing after months of going into garage

Turned out to be rad hose return split and closing up at high temp just a thought

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - mss1tw

I suspect this is a daft question but are all cooling system hoses ok, I used to drive a nissan urvan diesel that kept doing the same thing after months of going into garage

Turned out to be rad hose return split and closing up at high temp just a thought

Thanks bolt, it's not daft at all - I have checked them as best I can, I've never seen any leaks or steam.

Just so I know I've understood you, it was obviously/visibly leaking when cold but OK when hot?

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - Bolt

No leaks,the hose looked perfect but has split internally and was closing up when it got too hot,blocking the flow

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - mss1tw

No leaks,the hose looked perfect but has split internally and was closing up when it got too hot,blocking the flow

Thanks bolt - so you could not see this from the outside at all? I had seen pages mentioning radiator hoses collapsing at high rpm on Google and got someone to rev the van up to 3000rpm to see if any of them collapsed but they seemed fine.

If it is just not possible to tell from the outside they are cheap enough to try and see what happens.

Thank you

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - Bolt

No leaks,the hose looked perfect but has split internally and was closing up when it got too hot,blocking the flow

Thanks bolt - so you could not see this from the outside at all? I had seen pages mentioning radiator hoses collapsing at high rpm on Google and got someone to rev the van up to 3000rpm to see if any of them collapsed but they seemed fine.

If it is just not possible to tell from the outside they are cheap enough to try and see what happens.

Thank you

A collapsing hose is nothing new just hard to spot, some 70s/80s cars used to suffer same problem and often noticed by squeezing the hose, usualy where its collapsed its slightly softer but not seen

As I said its just a possible cause

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - mss1tw
A collapsing hose is nothing new just hard to spot, some 70s/80s cars used to suffer same problem and often noticed by squeezing the hose, usualy where its collapsed its slightly softer but not seen

As I said its just a possible cause

Well, at least changing them is something I can do myself! Thanks!

Edited by mss1tw on 20/09/2014 at 14:07

Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 54 plate - Very strange occurance - brakes/engine? - mss1tw

Final update, I hope:

The van has now had 2 new front calipers & hoses, a new master cylinder, and a rear wheel cylinder as the bleed nipple snapped off. (They only charged for the part to replace that which is fair enough)

Took it for a good run, lots of braking, higher speed A roads and corners, and it all seems to be fine now.

The pedal feels totally different, lots more travel. It still stops fine if needed, just needs a firm right foot mashed onto the pedal.

Total expenses came to circa £720 - £600 for the above, and £120ish for the first round of investigation and inspecting/greasing the calipers.

I expect discs and pads will be the next thing, if they've been significantly affected by the fault...

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I also bought upper and lower radiator hoses, which were pleasantly cheap for genuine parts at £20 inc VAT. Planning to change those tomorrow.