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Speeding Fines for Profit - Cyd

So here it is folks, prooof that entrapment of motorists for the speeding fines isn't just confined to the UK. At least we're well ahead of the US for a change having shifted the profiteering onto parking.

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Speeding Fines for Profit - markweatherill

You're starting with an assumption about 'entrapment of motorists for the speeding fines' in the UK - which is arguably false

Edited by markweatherill on 03/09/2014 at 08:02

Speeding Fines for Profit - Bromptonaut

You're starting with an assumption about 'entrapment of motorists for the speeding fines' in the UK - which is arguably false

Demonstrably false.

Speeding Fines for Profit - skidpan

On all roads there are speed limits.

Break those limits, get caught, get a fine.

Been working like that for as long as I can remember.

Just more technology now to catch the unwary.

Simple rule is don't speed and you won't get a fine.

Speeding Fines for Profit - ExA35Owner

And presumably fines for burglary are also "for-profit"?

The law is quite clear and if you don't speed and therefore don't endanger other people you won't be fined. Just the same as if you don't burgle and therefore don't take other people's property you won't be fined.

Speeding Fines for Profit - Andrew-T

This argument belongs with those who regard driving and being caught speeding as a game of cops and robbers. If it is a game, then all players should know the rules? If they choose to ignore them and get caught, put hands up and take the rap. And no diving in the penalty box.

I sympathise with those who object to the recent proliferation of apparently arbitrary limits in unexpected places. It is certainly getting harder to remember what speed is allowed everywhere.

Speeding Fines for Profit - Sulphur Man

Perhaps a case of mixed messages here. The 'fines for profit' accusation has been pushed at other motoring offences, but not speeding.

One notorious example is the uncovering of deliberate traffic light phase changes by Hammersmith & Chelsea borough council staff, to catch drivers in yellow cage junction boxes during rush hours or on Chelsea home match nights.Various incriminating emails were uncovered by a few fed-up and determined residents under the FOI act.

As a veteran driver of this area, it is intensely difficult to negotiate the various junction boxes successfully without a) getting caught out by sudden stops in traffic - you think the traffic is flowing through and then it stops, not helped by the sheer size of the yellow boxes and b)enraging other impatient drivers by being over cautious.

Speeding Fines for Profit - Bilboman

Other points to consider in the following scenarios IMHO:
1. Traffic fines are now seen as completely black and white - all drivers over the limit get "done" and fined, no matter what. Prosecution by machine becomes the norm; there are no mitigating circumstances. Are we really happy with that? As a logical extension to this, should all first time shoplifters get exactly the same sentence? How about all late tax returns? Exactly the same monetary/custodial punishment for every single person who breaks a window? (In all three cases, just as when driving, transgressions are perfectly possible owing to oversight, distraction or confusion but no matter...)
2. Drivers are expected to uphold the speed limit over and above all other factors. Constant monitoring of the speedometer leads to carelessness in other areas and more accidents occur as a result. Over-use of cruise control leads to bunching and catastrophic levels of road rage as cars constantly hit each other. Driving at an "inappropriate" speed is now irrelevant and the human discretion of the police officer's word in the ear is abolished - if you're 1 /3 /5 mph over, you are punished, end of. That OK with everyone?
3. Speeding fine policies are established according to expected revenue, i.e. imagine a proportion of a police authority's budget is designed to come from fines every year, and the amount increases annually. In other words, the system is built upon fines and if no one were caught it would not work. (Consider the extreme case of U.S. prisons which are inevitably filled upon completion - financial and political pressure means that sufficient criminals are always "produced" to keep prisons full and prison construction firms in high profits.) So, returning to driving, a chief constable or council chief "demands" 5,000/20,000/100,000 fines per year in his area and he promptly gets them. A county with an accident rate of 2 per million miles maintains its low accident rate over a ten year period but fine income increases twenty-fold. Still OK with that?

Edited by Bilboman on 03/09/2014 at 20:28

Speeding Fines for Profit - RT

ACPO guidelines ensure that discretion is allowed in ALL cases - so there's no black/white - although in legal terms exceeding a prescribed limit is just that, black or white.

It's drivers that treat speed limits as targets, not maximums, can't blame that on the authorities.

Speeding Fines for Profit - Andrew-T

Constant monitoring of the speedometer leads to carelessness in other areas and more accidents occur as a result.

Well yes, I suppose so. But I suggest that a driver with reasonable experience should be able to judge his speed to the nearest 10mph or less, which ought to mean he need not check his speedo all the time to avoid getting caught? As I said above, it's more important to look out for changes in limit every few hundred yards.

Speeding Fines for Profit - Bilboman

Given that ever harsher penalties and less and less discretion in sentencing/fines are a reality and extremely unlikely to go away, would the members of the backroom/jury consider that some commonsense rules based on that antiquated notion of fairness should now be introduced?
1. An end to up-and-down, constantly changing speed limits. Instead of 30 40 50 40 50 60 50 40 in quick succession, a median speed limit should be maintained over a stretch of road, say at least every half mile. This may mean US-style intermediate speed limits of 35, 45 and 55. "85th percentile" applied to set appropriate speed limits.
2. Adoption of clear, intuitive and helpful speed limit signs and road markings. Use of symbols, colour, size of signage, illumination to raise driver awareness and lower distraction and confusion, Replacement of "SLOW" road signs with specific speed limits.
3.. An end to overtly "sneaky" practices designed to trap careful, law-abiding drivers, who would otherwise not be caught. For example, where a 40 limit in a built up area with streetlights is reduced to 30, the installation of prominent 30 signs for at least a year after the change, rather than the speed limit magically defaulting to 30 literally overnight by dint of removing the 40 signs.
4.. Areas of road known to have a higher than normal accident rate to be marked as such. Drivers should expect visible or hidden speed cameras throughout the area. Absolute ban on speed camera vans being parked in stupid, dangerous and otherwise illegal locations.
5. Free official website for drivers to register details of near-misses, so that dangerous stretches of road can be identified and subsequent corrective action taken without merely counting accidents and bodies.
6. Use of radars and automatic traffic lights to slow traffic in low-speed limit areas.
7. Immediate removal of ALL speed humps, to be replaced with 2. and 6. above and other measures such as chicanes where traffic conditions permit.

Edited by Bilboman on 04/09/2014 at 01:37

Speeding Fines for Profit - alan1302

Bilboman -you are ideas are so sensible and the correct thing to do there is no chance of any of that happening.

Speeding Fines for Profit - Snakey

Sensible ideas all of them, but none of them are profitable!

Speeding Fines for Profit - alan1302

Sensible ideas all of them, but none of them are profitable!

Even speed camers aren't profitable.

Speeding Fines for Profit - barney100

I have a problem with fines as a punishment. They don't have the same impact on everyone as people have different financial positions so are affected unevenly. I don't know what the answer is and I certainly don't condone speeding. WS Gilbert had some novel ideas to ponder.