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Wed 23 Jul 2014 13:23

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - gizmoju

Hi,

I have just found out this morning from my 77 year old father that back in December last year he was asked by my brother who lives in Spain to purchase a car in his name on finance and my brother would export it and pay my father back. My father went and paid a £500 deposit to the dealer in Derby but then decided there maybe a possibility that this would all go wrong and decided against pursuing the purchase.

According to my father he was offered a 14 day cooling off period and he invoked the cancellation 3 days into that period. He phoned the dealer in January asking for a refund but they said he had to put it in writing. He did so and got no reply. Fast foward to today and this is the first I knew of the situation.

I have phoned Citizens advice who said it's his word against their's unless he was taking out a finance agreement (which he was due to) and then he is covered under section 57 of the Consumer Credit Act.

I phoned the dealer and spoke to the sales manage who said they were not refunding the money in any way as they had spent money at the time to get it ready for sale. I asked him how much and he said he would not inform me. I then asked him to forward me a copy of their contract but he refused. His argument was that the car had cost them money in getting it ready for sale and they would lose out. I referred him to section 57 above but he was having none of it.

I now need advice on how to persue this and any help would be greatly received.

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 17:55

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - RobJP

You need a copy of the agreement that your father signed with the garage. If he does not have it, then HE (NOT YOU) needs to request a copy of the agreement from them.

That will detail exactly what happens in the event of a cancellation. Not a 'according to ...'

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 18:17

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - gizmoju

Thanks for the reply. I have requested him to provide this to me. I am not sure if this 'cooling off' period is in there but regardless of that from another phone call to citizens advice this afternoon they have stated that if the deposit was one with an intended finance purchase then I can gain a full refund under Section 57 of the Consumer Credit Act. they said I would need to write a letter to the dealer.

If anyone has a template letter or has had results from this I would appreciate your input.

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 19:23

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - RobJP

Once again, just remember that YOU can do nothing. Unless you have power of attorney, then they can quite reasonably quote data protection at you forever. Any letters to them must go from your father, with reples to him. They may be willing to accept a letter from him authorising you to act on his behalf, but they are not obliged to do so.

Also : it's £500. Which your father paid out on behalf of your brother. Might it be reasonable to expect your brother to repay the money to your father, and then for your brother to take all this on if he wants his money back ?

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 21:07

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - gizmoju

Thanks for the reminder re power of attorney. I will be sending any letters but they will be signed in my fathers name so to all intents and purposes the dealer is dealing with my father. Unfortunately he is Italian and does not write English very well. Regardsing the latter part of getting the £500 back from my brother, unfortunately there is no chance to get it back. This is a Nick Cotton, Dot Cotton situation where my brother has been taking advantage of my fathers good will/kind nature/lack of backbone for years. He's the black sheep of the family for sure.

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 19:41

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - Manatee

It's Section 75 if you wnat to quote it. Buit unless there is (or was) a credit agreement in force then it's irrelevant as there is no lender on the hook.

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 21:08

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - gizmoju

Many thanks. My father is bringing the paperwork to me ASAP and I will check to see if there was a credit agreement in place.

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 20:16

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - thirts

OK this is my 2 cents worth - I'm no legal person so I could be talking rubbish.

1) Why did your father have to put it in writing? I know many companies tend to insist on that but potentially they could be in breach of the Disability Discrmination Act by taking this stance. Afterall if you can't or struggle write due to disabilty (which can be age related) you are being discriminated against.

2). You could consider the Small Claim Court (SCC), would a main BMW dealer want to go head to head with an AOP in court?, it can't be good for their reputation (BMW found guilty of taking advantage of an old person) .

When considering going to the SCC you should write to the company to ask them to consider a settlement. When you write you need to explain that you need a response to satisfy the SCC that you have made an attemp to resolve the situation. This may 'encourage' the dealer to come to terms rather than go to court again an AOP.

All I can say that this worked for me with when dealing with main furniture chain earlier this year - however I wasn't bluffing and was looking forward to my day in court. The company settled before we got to court.

Also, whilst I was confident I would win, mentally I had accepted it may not work out that way - but I was fairly annoyed at the time and decided it was worth the risk

Edited by thirts on 23/07/2014 at 20:22

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 21:14

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - gizmoju

Thanks for the reply. In response to your points:

1) I have no idea why my father had to write a letter. He only informed me of this situation today after 7 months (maybe because he knew I would be angry with him for not taking my advice to not get involved in purchasing a car for my brother - the black sheep Nick cotton member of the family)

2) I will definitely consider the SCC. I have used this before myself so can assist my father via this route to recover the £500 deposit, however, I want to be sure that there are grounds for us to win this under section 57 as otherwise it looks unlikely (it would be breach of contract on my fathers side so he has no leg to stand on I believe in that scenario).

I will definitely take your comments on board and thanks again.

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 21:45

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - thirts

When dealing with the dealership I would lay it on that you feel that they have taken advantage of a vulnerable old person. It sort of an in phrase and can work, because from an outsider perspective that appears to be what they have done.

My mother is 80, and although relatively sharp for her age, I suspect would struggle in similar circumstances, and therefore cold be taken advantage of.

It would be my contention that the dealership did take advantage of an old vulnerable person.

Anyway good luck

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 21:59

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - gizmoju

Many thanks. I did mention it to them on the phone to no avail, however, I will stress this in any letter I send.

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 22:28

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - TedCrilly

I think the suggestion the dealer has taken advantage of a vulnerable person is a bit strong. On the face of it your father instructed them to supply the car and left a deposit with the intention of making a purchase. In good faith the dealer has begun the process and in doing so has run up costs. Why should the dealer be left out of pocket because your father changed his mind?

Yes there is a cooling off period for the finance agreement but its the terms of the sale agreement you need to check very carefully. Clued up dealers, and its safe to assume a BMW dealer will be clued up dont generally let themselves become out of pocket if customers back out of deals and if they have asked for a deposit to get the ball rolling I will be very surprised if the terms `non refundable` are included somewhere.

Your only chance of a refund is if the dealer was unable to deliver the specified product in a reasonable time scale.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/you-and-your-rights-how-not-to-lose-a-deposit-1599561.html

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 22:52

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - RobJP

At no point has the OP stated that it was a BMW dealer (as in main agent) - unless I've missed it somewhere !

Edited by RobJP on 23/07/2014 at 22:56

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 22:56

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - gizmoju

just to confirm it was not a BMW. It was a dealer of another brand selling a BWM.

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Wed 23 Jul 2014 23:00

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - gizmoju

I read honest John every weekend and understand you cannot break a contract if you find a cheaper car elsewhere and expect to get a refund of the deposit if the dealer has incurred costs. In this situation the cancellation of the contract was 3 days after the agreement to purchase the car on finance was made. I asked the dealer to quantify if they had spent any money on the car as they said they hypothetcally could have and was prepared to offer a compromise deal i.e. if they had spent £200 then we would accept £300 refund (a reasonable compromise) but the dealer flatly refused to state if any work had been carried out. I suspect none was done and this smokescreen is placed there to engineer a nice £500 bonus.

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Thu 24 Jul 2014 09:09

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - RobJP

I expect so too. However, as you've said, if a contract has been signed, then that is legally binding - the garage can, technically, force a completion of a sale - though it wouldn't look very good on them if they did so.

However, look at their possible costs/losses from another point of view. What if they now don't sell that car for another 3 or 4 months ? Consequential losses, I believe it's called. They've had to valet and wash that car a few times, advertising costs (even for big garages, things like autotrader aren't cheap), the value drop in the car over that timespan, the cost of employing staff, etc.

I've been there, done it. Signed a purchase agreement, paid a £300 deposit on a car (back in the 90s), and then gotten cold feet. I don't think he's going to get his money back, but as I've said, you really need to see that contract he signed.

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Thu 24 Jul 2014 10:01

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - gizmoju

As an owner of e-commerce stores myself I understand the viewpoint of the dealer also, however, if they had made false promises i.e. cooling off period, then their sales techniques to a senior citizen with a small grasp of reading and writing of English is dubious to say the least.

I think I will only get a chance to pursue this if there was a credit agreement in place, which can be covered by Section 57 of the Consumer Credit Act, but from the conversation I had yesterday with the dealer I got the distinct impression they sold the car not long after and they were flanneling me in relation to potential costs incurred by the defensive demeanour of the sales manager when I asked him to provide a consice detailed report of their costs incurred to prep the car for the sale to my father.

Thanks again to all people for taking the time to reply and assist.

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Thu 24 Jul 2014 17:23

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - pd

If I read it correctly you intended to buy the car in the UK and on finance and in one persons name and then take it out of the country into anothers?

I think I'd keep a bit quiet about that bit as it is probably fraud and certainly against the finance terms as until it is paid off in full the car is not yours to export.

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Thu 24 Jul 2014 21:33

BMW 3 Series - Dealer not refunding £500 deposit - barney100

The phone company has records of all calls ask for a printoff and that is pretty good evidence...failing that hello small claims court judge.

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