As I said in my original post we visited the Volvo dealer when we bought the Seat. The Volvo dealer is part of the group that inclues the Seat dealer who was totally disinterested and subsequently c0cked up the sump plug.

We were interested in the 150 PS petrol but the salesman quite clearly told me they did not sell petrols since no one buys them. We looked at the car and decided it was not for us. Access into the front was not easy, into the rear was impossible. The boot was poor. Nice rear view mirror, very Apple.

Based on previous experiences Volvo servicing was extortionate as well, they wanted over £1000 at the original local Volvo dealer for the first 3 services on a C30.

Colleagues wife has XC90, bought it form the above dealer and when it wnet in for its first service with 4000 miles on the clock they said it wanted 4 new tyres which she agreed to. Theay are 19" Carlos Fandango jobbies, nearly £200 each on Camskill, how much at the local s******.

Dick Turpin lives.

A typical one is about standard at £240 whilst the more major ones are £390 - pretty much on a par with VAG costs I think. I

Don't know about VW but for the Leon I have a VAG finance service plan (I am on the 1 year - 10,000 miles service regime not the flexible one) that costs me £10.91 a month for 34 months, total £370.94 for the first 3 services. That is way less than servicing a Volvo.

After the plan expires Seat have fixed price servicing, £139 for a minor and £259 for a major, again way less than the Volvo prices.

A point of interest to me is I'd always assumed that car salesmen were quite well paid at least for people with modest academic quals. It just seems from this thread and my own experience that there's a lack of consistent well design sales processes going on implemented in a coherent way. In other sectors you can sense some order and training going on

. Is the turnover so high in car sales that there's not enough time to imbed consistent approaches or is there just a tolerance of shoddy behaviour?

Duplicate post.

Edited by Avant on 06/07/2014 at 10:15

Duplicate post.

Edited by Avant on 06/07/2014 at 10:16

There's truth in what you say old bear.

I can't really account for it, and maybe it's as simple as some salespeople just not being very good - but the majority seem normally intelligent to me.

I have some insight into the motor trade, though I'm not anywhere near up to date. When I first got involved decades ago, dealers typically had a profit margin of 17.5% to play with. You knew that they could afford to sell you a car at 15% discount, though dealer allocations in some cases limited what they could sell, so for cars in demand it might be hard to get.

Some models would attract extra margin support from time to time, and dealer bonuses linked to registrations have always been a feature of the industry.

The basic margin is now usually very much lower, so dealers don't have so much to play with. If all the dealer can offer you is a deal based on what he can make from his standard profit on the car, and anything he can make on the part exchange, it isn't going to be very attractive and he probably has little chance of doing a deal with an alert buyer.

I know of at least one very big dealer group that foundered after trading solely on the basis of big annual bonuses and missing one.

The sales staff also know that the majority of some mainstream models go at new to company users - so the individual expressing an interest will not be the purchaser, and the eventual supplier is probably already contracted to the company concerned.

This probably goes some way to explain both the apparent indifference of some sales staff to buyers, and the seemingly insulting offers they make in terms of discount/part exchange compared with broker deals, or pre-reg cars. The fact is that the real market price of most cars is well below what a dealer can offer in a "vanilla" deal.

This casual attitude to potential customers is still poor behaviour, and short-sighted, but understandable if the sales staff see no real benefit in investing time in enquiries.

The challenge for a dealer may not be finding buyers, so much as finding deals he can offer them.

When there is a deal, it is often related to model specific margin support or retrospective volume bonuses. Dealers will also pre-register cars rather than miss a big enough payment, knowing they can still come out ahead selling them later at lower-than-cost prices.

There also appears to be tacit use of fleet and demonstrator discounts to get cars into the private market. A dealer may sell and register a vehicle to an associated hire business and then sell it immediately as pre-reg with delivery miles. The fleet discount is usually contingent on the car not being sold for a minimum period, which is why sometimes the V5 is retained for up to 6 months if the car is sold earlier.

I can't believe that manufacturers aren't aware of the dealers who do this, but presumably they turn a blind eye as long as it isn't overdone to the detriment of supply to other dealers..

Many thousands more cars are sold at big discounts to short term hire companies who churn them after a few months, after which they enter the private market as nearly new, via car supermarkets and large dealer groups.

"Management" cars are another wheeze.

Brokers and car supermarkets play a major role in linking buyers with these deals.

It's a complex market. I have just 'sourced' two cars from different dealers in a different part of the country - one for the boss, and one for an elderly relative. Looking for new, I ended up with a 3 month old 2,000 mile "demonstrator" and a pre-registered one with 10 miles on the clock, both at more than 25% discount from new. Yet the nearest dealers were just quoting a few hundred pounds discount on a straightforward new deal.

E&OE - as I say I'm not current and no doubt there are nuances I don't know about now that somebody else can fill in.

That's one of my concerns but there is a gizmo on Volvo's website that actually allows you to see the cost of servicing. A typical one is about standard at £240 whilst the more major ones are £390 - pretty much on a par with VAG costs I think. I looked at the Seat and it does look very very nice. I'm just quite taken with the V40 but, again, not sure why its a whole £2k more than a Golf. I must be missing something.

Dingle, which versions (engine/trim) are you comparing when looking at V40 vs.Golf?

Volvo ES = Golf S; SE = SE; R Design = GT/GTD.

For me the interior of the V40 wins, it's just a georgeous place to sit compared with the high quality but blander Golf. Servicing is on a par over the longer term, and don't forget to factor in larger discounts available on the V40, which bring the differences model to model to nearer £1000. But Golf residuals are stronger.

Also some things like folding mirrors and steering wheel controls cost extra on certain models of Golf. V40 has Climate, Golf has a kind of semi automatic aircon or Climate at extra cost.

The What Car? car comparison builder online is your friend here.

My experiences:

Suzuki: Nice guy, did the deal on the phone, didn’t even bother going to the dealership until pickup. Nice honest deal, both sides got what they expected.

Toyota: Exceptionally good experience. Just given car keys and told to take car for as long as I wanted for a test drive. Ordered it. A few hiccups when the salesman left the dealership, but they backed down when I told them to stick to the original deal. Aftersales experience first rate.

Dacia: Bought car but found out subsequently they were lying through their teeth, won't be going back there.

Hyundai: Bought the car, major pain getting a sensible deal out of them, and then after deal struck they were nothing but hassle. Nice car but never going to that dealer again.