05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

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Tue 17 Jun 2014 12:03

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - glock339

Hi my old Focus which I wish I never got is costing me money again.

The firs time was after Id had the car for less than a year on a long drive up to Scotland I noticed the SatNav stopped charging because the cigaret fuse had blown & then after a while everything lights etc drained & died. The roadside call out guy jump started me & I just say got to my destination before it died again, which I now know isnt exactly safe on these cars due to the stupid Smart Charge thing. I then had a Wiring Loom & Alternator chucked in this time which seemed to work ok for a while.

Just over a year later I noticed sometimes the car would be flat for no aparent reason every couple of weeks which became more & more freaquent. During this time the Alternator seemed to be charging the battery until at it eventually died. I took it to my local garage & explained the history & about the Smart Charge etc which I'm pretty sure they completely ignored & said it'll just be the alternator so chucked another one in. This got the car going again but almost every time I started up all the dasboard dials flickered quickly for about 5 or so seconds which seemed not rite to me so I took it back to the garage only for them to shrug it off & said it's probably always done that.

2 Months later I had a few non starts which again coincided with the cigaret lighter fuse blowing at some point I decided to ask a few garages for their opinion. After being told about 4 different thing from 4 different places (battery, alternator etc etc) I decided to try & do a few tests with a multi meter & discovered there seemed to be a parasitic draw of about 1amp when everything was off. So I got an auto electrician out who seemed to be in some kind of megga rush to get finished for 6 oclock after not turning up until 5:45. Again I tried to explain the history etc but he didn't seem to interested either & very quickly diagnosed the alternator was nackers & also causing the drain & then started packing up. I asked him why the alternators aren't lasting rather than me just constantly banging new ones in & all I got is the garage may have possibly put in the wrong size one (without actually looking at it) & he then guessed my car should have perhaps have a 110A one in or possibly bigger or something & then shot off. Ive googled alternators for my Reg & seems everywhere recommends 90A so I'm confused to say the least.

Dose anyone know what size Alternator I should have & even better any sort of clue as to whats going on with the bane of my life!

Cheers.

Edited by glock339 on 17/06/2014 at 12:03

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Tue 17 Jun 2014 12:06

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - Galaxy

Check that you have a Calcium Battery fitted. A lead-acid one could cause all the problems you describe.

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Tue 17 Jun 2014 16:33

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - glock339

Yeh it is a Calcium Battery, I googled the numbers printed on it to check so shouldn't be that?

I took it back to the Garage that fitted the alternator & told them what the auto elctrician (who also dose quite a bit of work for this garage) told me & they replaced the alternator under waranty.

So the first thing I done when I got it home was test for a parasitic draw & got a reading of 0.75A. I've just rang the auto elec who told me this is fine? I thought it shoud be around 50 milli amps??? Am I being thick here as I'm in no way any sort of sparky but does a reading of 0.75 = 750 milli Amps?

Edited by glock339 on 17/06/2014 at 16:33

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Tue 17 Jun 2014 16:51

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - Galaxy

No, it's not fine! I assume you are measuring between one of the battery terminals and the relevant cable? Yes, 0.75A is 750 milliamps, three quarters of an amp!

Not sure how much the parasitic current should be but I wouldn't expect it to be over 100mA, if that. Did you leave the test running for a while, OP? The current might be high initially but then drop to a very much lower figure once you've left the car for a while.

You haven't got any hidden lamps being left on, have you? e.g. in the glovebox or in the boot.

I think I'd pull the fuses out one by one and see what effect this has on the parasitic current. I believe you can buy something that plugs into a fuse position which allows you to measure the current which would be flowing throught the fuse; this could also be worth doing.

Edited by Galaxy on 17/06/2014 at 16:53

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Tue 17 Jun 2014 17:35

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - glock339

Ah so I'm not going daft then, I thought that was 750 miliamps! Yes I'm testing between the Neg terminal & its cable.

I've only had chance to do it for about 5 or 6 mins as I'm on night shift soon so will have to try it again for a decent amount of time when as soon as I get chance.

Yesterday I did removed the glove compartment light & looked in the boot etc to make sure everything was off & couldn't find anything like that. Although I haven't tried pulling the fuses today I did try it yesterday both in the engine space & in the car before the new alternator went in & the only things that made any difference to the draw was the Battery Saver Relay, A.C Switch/Instrument Cluster fuse & Main Power to Glove Compartment Fuse Panel. But when I say made a difference I'm talking VERY little, there was still a large drain no matter which fuse I removed.

Think I'll have to try doing the draw test properly & re-contacting the auto electrician?

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Tue 17 Jun 2014 20:34

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - elekie&a/c doctor

Alternators don,t last long on these because most are poor quality rebuilt/recon units .If you buy genuine ford replacements,then life expectancy is much greater.If this is a mk 2 Focus model 2005 on,then i would expect the battery drain to be less than 60ma ,but only after a settle time of 40 mins plus,with bonnet closed.

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Wed 18 Jun 2014 12:29

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - glock339

I'd like to hope for more than two to three months... also the current alternator was replaced yesterday, I drove from the garage to my house aprox 1 min drive before testing & still found the draw.

I set away the drain test at work last night & it started at around 750 milliamps again then after an hour droped to aprox 550 then after two hours 450 at which point I disconnected & tested the battery voltage which had dropped from 12.77v to 12.5v during this 2 hour test. I did have the bonnet open during this time but I'm not aware of any switches on the bonnet are there? I noticed the auto elec left it open when he done the test.

I disconnected the battery after this test to try & save the power until the morning but dipite getting a reading of 12.6v before trying the car would not start so tried a bump start no joy, portable jumper no joy then a car to car jump & I was away. The battery was charged back up by the time I drove 35 mins to home. I then just done a quick test again when I pulled in & still saw the 750 draw so disconnected the battery & contacted the same auto electrician who said he'll be out this morning. Sick as a chip!lol

Edited by glock339 on 18/06/2014 at 12:31

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Wed 18 Jun 2014 14:30

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - Galaxy

Many years ago I had a car and the battery kept going flat. Took the battery out and charged it, put it back in the car and it started immediately and everything was fine!

Left the car parked for a couple of days, went out to car and it wouldn't start, battery was flat again. Took a chance and bought a brand new battery, installed it in car and everything was fine.

Left the car for a couple of days, then went out to use car and the new battery was flat!

Measured the parasitic current drain and it was about 2 amps; no wonder the original and new replacement batteries kept going flat! After some electrical detective work I found the problem. There was a short in one of the horn assemblies and, since the horns were permanently live, this short was causing the draining of the batteries.

Since this particular car had more than one horn I just snipped the wires connecting the faulty one. Fault cleared!

I reckon that you've got something like this problem with your car, OP.

There is a switch which operates on the underside of the bonnet as part of the alarm.

Edited by Galaxy on 18/06/2014 at 14:32

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Wed 18 Jun 2014 16:55

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - Ian D

I would change the Auto electrician first if he thinks 0.75A is normal, should be under 100mA. As well as pulling each fuse in turn you could unplug the alternator and see if the current draw drops, could be a duff regulator or internal component that is at fault. I have also come across faulty radios which draw current even when off, but pulling the radio fuse will identify if that us the problem.

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Wed 18 Jun 2014 17:06

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - Ian D

Just re-read your post and noticed you have already tried pulling the fused and have changed the alternator. Maybe try pulling out each relay in turn to see if that helps.

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Wed 18 Jun 2014 17:21

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - glock339

Well the auto electrician has just paid another wirl wind visit where he obviously hadn't got time to deal with me & just wanted to be away (an aprox 2 to 3 min visit this time) & onto the next job. Typically to make me look stupid there was no draw when he tested it so said theres f*@k all wrong with that mate and started getting in the van. I asked why the car hadn't started this morning then & he said I probably hadn't give it a proper run. I told him I'd driven to work for about 50 mins before leaving stood over night & he said well see how it goes & if it goes flat again it may be the battery then drove off. I could be wrong but it felt like I could of just walked into any pub & got exactly the same guess work prognocis for free off any random I started talking to. I wont be calling him back any time soon.

I need to get to work tonight so have left the battery disconnected just in case & I will have to have a play with yet again tomorrow to see if the draw is there again. I did try removing the fuses last time but will try it again if the draw is there. I would hate to try & start fiddling with the alternator, its a total mare to get at in the focus!

Thanks for all the replies so far :-)

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Wed 18 Jun 2014 17:22

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - glock339

Ah just posted as you were, yes I also tried any rely I could see but may have missed some so will have another go & make sure I do it properly cheers :-)

Edited by glock339 on 18/06/2014 at 17:23

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Wed 18 Jun 2014 18:45

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - elekie&a/c doctor

So is this a mark 1 or mark 2 focus?.Different electrical systems in both.Different process to find electrical drain.

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Thu 19 Jun 2014 12:03

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - glock339

Hi it is a mark 1.

Just some info which I don't know is of any relevance: when I got the second from last alternator put in after starting the car the dashboard dails would quickly flicker for around 6 seconds before settling into normal function. I did point this out to the Garage who carried out the work just for them to fob me off by saying it probably always done that but I hadn't noticed before. After having the last alternator put in a few days ago as soon as the key is just turned to the first click position the dials start flickering & then set away flickering again after actually starting the car... IF it starts!lol

I used the car twice since yesterday & disconnected the battery after each journey just in case there was a draw. Unfortunately as I was due to take the Mrs to work just now I reconnected it only for another non start (she was not best pleased).

So do I go & throw more money at a new battery? I don't know how old it is as I've had the car a couple of years but no idea how long it's been in before I got it.

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Thu 19 Jun 2014 14:34

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - elekie&a/c doctor

The flicking dash needles are a classic sign of a low battery voltage.I would get the battery tested.

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Thu 19 Jun 2014 16:34

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - slkfanboy

It seams poinless going back to the people you are using it's quite clear they don't know what they are talking about plus wasting your money.

Firstly you need to get a battery charger and charge the batter over night with it disconnected from the car. Disconnect the changer and measure the voltage, you should get around 13.4v. You can also get a drop test done on the battery after you have fully charged it. If either of these tests fails then the battery is dying.

Before you purchase a new battery. You can check the car is charging it correctly. Put your meter on the battery and slow apply rev's. The voltage should go up to just over 14v quite quickly and not go much higher i.e. 15v would be to high!

Once you are happy with the battery and charging, hopefully you will be ok. if you still have issues then you have a power drain problem.

Rather than take relays out. Leave the car 40min to an 1 hour and test to see if any relays are still warm. if they are then it likely they are the issue.

If no then remove fuses one at a time and put you amp meter accoss the fuse and see if their is a current draw. if there is then that the circuit causing the issue. I would start looking at the fuses that blew.

Hope it helps

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Thu 19 Jun 2014 16:40

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - jc2

Hi it is a mark 1.

Just some info which I don't know is of any relevance: when I got the second from last alternator put in after starting the car the dashboard dails would quickly flicker for around 6 seconds before settling into normal function. I did point this out to the Garage who carried out the work just for them to fob me off by saying it probably always done that but I hadn't noticed before. After having the last alternator put in a few days ago as soon as the key is just turned to the first click position the dials start flickering & then set away flickering again after actually starting the car... IF it starts!lol

I used the car twice since yesterday & disconnected the battery after each journey just in case there was a draw. Unfortunately as I was due to take the Mrs to work just now I reconnected it only for another non start (she was not best pleased).

So do I go & throw more money at a new battery? I don't know how old it is as I've had the car a couple of years but no idea how long it's been in before I got it.

Most batteries have a date of manufacture on the top-normally in the format MM/YY.

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Thu 19 Jun 2014 17:44

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - elekie&a/c doctor

This car has a smart charge alternator system that can charge up to 16 volts,that is why it is important to fit a calcium battery.

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Sat 21 Jun 2014 23:39

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - dogdays

There is no mention of smart charge in the manual. It says the higest voltage with full loading is 14.8 volts, same as all other alternators. I also do not understand why the alternators are not lasting even if working hard.

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Fri 20 Jun 2014 04:27

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - dogdays

I have a 2007 Focus 2 1.8 Diesel estate with 163,000 miles on the clock. Had it from new and It still has the same battery and alternator. I can leave it at an airport for three weeeks and it still starts. You have something strange happening as this problem is not normal.

Time to have a diagnostic done at a Ford garage as the rest seem to be wasting your time and money.

Chris

P,S The current draw when parked will be the alarm and the central locking reciever.

Edited by dogdays on 20/06/2014 at 04:33

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Fri 20 Jun 2014 09:47

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - jc2

I've only changed Ford alternators twice in 40+ years-once for a bearing failure(Lucas ACR) and once to fit higher output model.All the others-including modern smart charge have been absolutely reliable.

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Sat 21 Jun 2014 23:51

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - dogdays

How do you know the battery is flat? I can think of many reasons why an enguiine will not turn over smartly with a fully charged battery. Turn everything on in the car,rev the engine and see what the voltage across the battery is.

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Sun 22 Jun 2014 00:53

05 Ford Focus Diesel 1.8 - 05 Ford Focus Alternators not lasting - dogdays

This is the procedure for testing smart charge systems.

7. Voltage comparison test with 3-pin connector connected.

- Switch on dipped headlights and heated rear window, and run the engine at idle.
- Watch for 20 secs then record the voltage output across the battery terminals.
- If the output is not between 12.5 and 15.5 V, and /or is unsteady (ie. varies by +/- 0.2V) replace the alternator and re-test the charging system.
- Switch off the headlights, heated rear window and engine, and proceed to the next step if the output is steady and within range.

8. Make sure the ignition is off, then disconnect the alternator 3-pin connector and be certain that it is held in a safe position.
- Run the engine at idle, switch on the dipped headlights and heated rear window.
- Check that the output is steady by observing for 20 secs, then record the voltage output across the battery terminals. Switch the engine off.
- If this output is the same as the one from the previous test then the alternator is running in default mode and needs to be replaced. Re-test the charging system.
- Go to the next step if the output is different.

9.Ignition off load test. Re-connect the 3-pin connector, with the ignition off.

- Measure the vehicle key off current load between the battery ground cable and the battery negative terminal using an ammeter.
- The alternator is ok if the current is below 2 Amps.
- If not, disconnect the alternator battery positive connection and re-measure the vehicle key off load.
- If the current dips below 2 Amps, replace the alternator and re-test the charging system.

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